The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: hieronymous on November 09, 2010, 10:38:57 PM
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Have you ever encountered extreme anti-pick prejudice? Or maybe you feel that way yourself? Personally I use whatever is appropriate, be it fingers or pick or slap or plucking with my thumb - heck, I've even been known to use a roast beef sandwich...
I could rant some more, but maybe I'll just put this out there for now...
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My pick technique has always sucked, so I'm a finger player. For me, it gives me more depth. I've worked on picking a little more in the past few years, though. There are a lot of players I love who use a pick. Chris Squire is at the front of that line.
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I mostly use flat wound strings and I am a finger player, but there are a few songs that I will use a pick on for the percussive attack it provides.
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When I first started on this here learning path (which I wanted to go down years ago) I started with a pick and gradually began using my fingers more. Not an expert by ANY means with either but can definitely see benefits to both.
Oddly, I suck out loud using fingers on the Ric, but can handle it fine with a pick.
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I encountered that a little in the 80s. I thought it was completely juvenile. It was mostly metal guys that were into Maiden and Anthrax. It's like telling an upright player not to use a bow. Or a guitarist not to play finger-style. Ridiculous. Why limit your tone and feel options? I'm probably 65/35 in favor of a pick. Depends on the song, and I almost always just "know" which is right for what I want to achieve.
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Doesn't matter to me, I play almost always with a pick (except acoustic fretless), but appreciate a lot of finger players. While pick makes you stand out more with better attack (producers tend to like it because of that) and perhaps makes fast notes more audible, I always admire how even root note eights sound more rhytmic when finger-played against the greater accuracy of using a pick to do the same. There is a groovy natural inaccuracy in finger playing (unless you are mark King!) which I like, Gary Thain of Uriah Heep has that and Neil Murray of Whitesnake had it too, both of them great melodic and rhytmically nuanced players. Finger playing can sound more organic and lively, pick playing more precise, to the point and a bit keyboardish at times.
And there are quite a few finger players that sound pickish: Geddy Lee and Steve Harris come to mind. And a funk player like John Gustafson sounds fingerish to me though he always plays with a pick.
Among musicians, pick-playing bass was long ago (late seventies/early eighties) regarded as not really musicianly (in my experience mainly from funk and Jazz Rock/Fusion people), which is nonsense, you can play fusion with a pick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU5IdEY92KI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddEivwzB_-4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfnReAPcD0k
I encountered some of that back then, but it is a thing of the past I believe. Drummers tend to like it because they can locate you better in the band sound. Today, most guitarists say "cool, you play with a pick!" when they notice that I do. And then often enough add: "Can you turn the bass a little brighter?" Which I grudgingly do, having outlived my "piano rrring" phase long ago. But when you play pick many people expect/want to hear the percussive snap of the pick on the string.
I used to sound very pickish in my early days, my dream sound was actually the Fender Rhodes riff of the intro of Ike and Tina Turners Nutbush City Limits. :mrgreen: These days, I believe I don't sound as overtly pick player as I used to, do I? You can listen to various tracks of me playing with a pick here, only Unity features a second track acoustic fretless bass that is fingered (hence no fast runs on it!):
Access as usual:
www.zentralstudio.de
Go to "Kundenlogin", type "raintunes" for project name, pick one of the four numbers appearing, and insert "raintunes" for user and "plainingjet" for pass word.
Does it cry "pick player!" to you?
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Started with fingers, switched to pick after a few years and discovering Yes/ELP. Use a pick for all original band adventures then switched back to fingers in mid 80's. Now Play with fingers for >95% of the time exceptions being songs that just have to have a pick I.E. Deep Purple. For what ever reason i just feel more connected to the instrument with my fingers and love the versatility that my fingers gives me on how each note can be plucked. Once i discovered using 4 out of the 5 fingers on my plucking hand i never really looked back....
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Real bassist play arco. :P
I think the anti-pick nonsense got started about 50 years ago when many producers started insisting on electric basses in the studio. Many string bassists had refused to play electrics, and players from a guitar background moved in and replaced them. When they finally were forced to play electric basses or get shut out, they attacked the pick and attacked successful players like Joe Osborn and Carol Kaye who came from guitar backgrounds and used picks.
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I think we all have to do what works best for ourselves, keeping in mind your instrument's best attributes, your own phyisical capabilities and what serves the song best. Generally I marvel at finger players any more, I can't play much of our material live that way, I don't have the stamina in my right hand to pull off a song that goes 4-5 minutes long and is solid 8ths or 16ths..........Occasionally I'll play finger style on one song (I'll stop the world" Modern English) live, but really I know better! At home tho I really do enjoy sitting comfortably and playing something fingerstyle i.e. Steely Dan, I find it more organic as Uwe says, and definately you're in touch with the bass, subtle nuance ( palm muting, ghost notes) is easier too.
Live with my tools of choice: '76 Thunderbird, Dunlop .73mm Gator Grip, and 750 watts of GK = One Happy Fraulein.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/FridayNight91of194.jpg)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/SaturdayNight21of78.jpg)
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I started with fingers, learned to use a pick playing along with Thin Lizzy, The Police (my palm-muting with a pick is all down to Sting), Yes etc. and nowadays use whatever is needed. The pick is used 99% of the time when I play the 12-string and I also have been learning to use my thumb for the last five years, either plucking or the up-and-down Doug Rauch -style (also known as double thumbing).
Anti-pick prejudice usually comes from people who can't play with a pick. Same thing with a prejudice againts 5-string basses, sheet music etc.
Another pick-style player in the fusion genre is Andy West of Dixie Dregs. Gus was a good call, Uwe, he indeed has quite a dark sound for a pick player.
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I think Dave nailed the "professional" origins of anti-pick bias. I started with a pick, but quickly found that it didn't work for me for the bass sound I wanted. I now play exclusively fingerstyle, even on my 12 string. I can play with a pick now, and I have experimented with some semi-soft bass picks made locally by a friend of mine. I like them a lot, but over the years, since I have really long arms, I've dropped the back of my bass so low with the strap I have to readjust it higher to be able to play with a pick. I'm really not interested in doing that.
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I play about 85% finger-style...maybe 10% slap and maybe maybe 5%where I use a pick on 80's rock with repetitive 8th notes. I can usually get them to sound more even and "machine like" with a pick.
No prejudice here...it's all just music...
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I have always been a finger-style player. Due to the problems with my lefthand I have never been able to hold one well and my mucles start to cramp up pretty quick. However, I have always wanted that tone in my trickbag so to speak and so I keep messing around with it.
Andy West, the original bassplayer for the Dixie Dregs is an awesome pick player.
Check out Steve Swallow, not only is he an amazing player but he is probably the only bassplayer using a pick in a purely jazz context.
There was a lot of anti-pick bias when I was starting out but it has gradually changed and pick-style is more accepted.
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I have almost not touched a pick since I came back to regular playing, although throughout the 70's and 80's I virtually never played without one...
It's all about feel and nothing more... whatever works for you...
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I have always been a pick player. over the last few years I have worked on my finger style for the Zep stuff, though JPJ does use a pick on some songs. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/butcherbirdandme.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/scotdd.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/IMG_4323.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/2237659070083345702mPBPbc_ph.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/2480334560083345702mBKBIW_ph.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/img_0728.jpg)
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I started off on guitar, so when I switched to bass I played with a pick. Over the next couple of years (this is 30 years ago) I gradually moved to mostly finger style, with pick when needed. Around 1985 I had 10 years off bass playing and almost exclusively played finger picking acoustic guitar, doing solo singer/guitarist gigs. Because of that, when I got back into bass playing again in around 1997 I played fingerstyle all the time, because I hadn't used a pick for anything for so many years. These days, I pretty much always use fingerstyle at gigs, but have recently started practicing at home with a pick again, just to give me more flexibility if I need it for a fill-in gig or recording or whatever.
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35+ years with a pick. I have always felt that other musicians appreciate that I sound a little different (90% of the bass players around here play fingerstyle).
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Been playing bass since 1976, have never played a song without a pick, it's part of my "tone equation". Anyone tells me there's any steadfast rules for how you pluck a bass string is someone who's opinion means nothing to me.
Out.
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I think some basses lend themselves to pick playing, I loved playing my Rick 4001 with a pick and of course the T Birds almost seem to catch fire when you get a pick and some rounds going on. Certain pickup designs really come to life when the bass is played with a pick.
The inverse is true as well, my limited experience with Fenders taught me that fingers seemed to get me closer to a desired tone and a pick just didn't make sense.
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Seems like a pick is necessary sometimes.
Glenn Hughes is RIPPING IT UP on Black Country's song Black Country--my fav on their COMMUNION album.
That's GOTTA be a pick!
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Depends on the song, and I almost always just "know" which is right for what I want to achieve.
This is exactly how I feel about it. For me the song really does tell me which method to use.
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I'm 100% fingers now. Back in 1977 when I started I was really into the Dave Hope tone (Kansas) so when I finally got a Precision Bass in 1979 I played it with a pick. It was a large heavy triangle tort pick. When I lost that I used Dunlops. I stopped playing for several years around 1985 and when I started back up again in 1996 it was strictly fingers.
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Glenn Hughes always plays with a pick, pretty close to the bridge, unless he slaps. All Purple bass players - Simper, Glover, Hughes - were pick players.
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I went through a brief period of playing with a pick in the late '70s I haven't used one since.
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I go both ways, and enjoy it equally.
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Started out playing with picks because finger-style was way to difficult on a baritone ( stringed E to E ) but changed to finger-style with my first 4 string. When I joined my 1st semi-pro outfit the guys in the band insisted I'd play with a pick, so I did ..... no problem.
Nowadays I can play both ways but finger-style comes natural to me so my playing sounds more fluid that way ......
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Both pick and fingerstyle for 30 years now...gotta serve the song.
T
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I go both ways, and enjoy it equally.
Does your wife know? ;)
You Greeks, always goin' 'round the world ;D
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I was talkin' 'bout picks and fingers stuff, not the other thingie, your Hornyness...
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I was talkin' 'bout picks and fingers stuff, not the other thingie, your Hornyness...
You rang? ;)
I remember that clip you posted of some fingerstyle kind of jazz on your Epi, Nice!
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Let me just add that the new avatar has raised the bar. So to speak...
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Paul McCartney and Carol Kaye are two bassists that are way up there for me, but I play with a pick just because it has always seemed natural to me.
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I remember that clip you posted of some fingerstyle kind of jazz on your Epi, Nice!
If by jazzy you mean sloppy, then yes, guilty as charged.
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I learned fingerstyle planing upright. I'm still learning how to use a pick but I'm making progress. For surf music, the sharp attack and ability to play repetitive patterns fast do make a pick an appropriate tool.
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I play fingerstyle 80% of our repertoire. But the other 20% I use the pick.
Just depends on the song really.
I learned to play the bass with fingers style. Coming from a classical scholing on the Spanish guitar with boring stuff (for an early teenager) like Bourree etc.
When I started a Thin Lizzy cover band (way before the tribute bands flooded the market) I had to learn to play with a plectrum.
Songs like "Waiting for an Alibi" and "Are You Ready" can't be played fingerstyle, imho.
I'm glad I learned to play both styles.
Don't think I'll ever take the time to learn how to slap though... ;)
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I was talkin' 'bout picks and fingers stuff, not the other thingie, your Hornyness...
I first looked at that sentence and swore I saw the word "nose" in there somewhere. ;D
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I don't really know what I expected when I started this thread - I expected there to be at least a little bit of anti-pick sentiment. I think it is still alive and well elsewhere, but good to see that the Last Bass Outposters are much more open-minded and realistic!
Personally, I play differently depending on the technique I am using, and I consider that a good thing. My favorite right now is pick with flats on my Alembic. Other pick/flatwounds players that I like are early Phil Lesh & current Mike Gordon, though of course there are others (Joe Osborn for example, though I don't consider him an influence). Anthony Jackson is a player who switches between pick and fingers depending on what the song calls for, which I found influential at one point (Al DiMeola's Casino & Electric Rendezvous being my favorites).
For a while I experimented with different materials - I have a pick made from bone, some wooden ones, and my favorite: woolly mammoth tusk! Usually now I use really heavy Dunlop Alligator picks (usually 2.00 mm+).
This has been fun - loved Dave's insight into the possible origins of anti-pick prejudice in the early days of the electric bass. But I'm glad that it's fading away.
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Dutch Bass player Herman Deinum is great pick player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ2-o6EE8rI
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I dunno. It seems that I see a lot more threads about people complainging about people who don't like picks than I do from people who actually don't like picks.
Seems the anti-anti-pickers out number the anti-pickers.
And just because you're an anti-anti-picker doesn't seem to mean you're a pro-picker. Most seem to be pick-neutral. That leads me to observe that I see very few exclusively pro-picker threads and even these don't seem to attract a lot of anti-picker nit-picking, just a lot of anti-anti-picders talking in pick-neutral tones about anti-pickers.
I guess you can take your pick.
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No reason to be picky! :P
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I dunno. It seems that I see a lot more threads about people complainging about people who don't like picks than I do from people who actually don't like picks.
Seems the anti-anti-pickers out number the anti-pickers.
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I don't see any threads like that, then again I don't hang out at any other bass-specific forum like TB. What I do see is the occasional thread from a newbie wanting to know about it because some local yokel has told him "bass is meant to be played fingerstyle" and/or that bassists who use picks aren't "real" bassists. The prejudice is out there even if we don't see it here.
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If someone told me today that I'm not a bassist because I play with a pick, I'd just shrug and be alittle bewildered. 99% of all non-bass-playing musicians wouldn't be able to tell from a recording whether a bass is played with a pick or not. We're not even talking non-musicians here. And even in this bass playing crowd here, I'm sure all of us would have more misses than hits secondguessing whether an electric bass in a finished production is pick or finger, Chris Squire radical sounds and techniques like slapping ignored. It just doesn't matter to the music.
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...............your Hornyness...
Fraulien Hornyness ??? It has a nice ring to it.... ;D
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I don't see any threads like that, then again I don't hang out at any other bass-specific forum like TB. What I do see is the occasional thread from a newbie wanting to know about it because some local yokel has told him "bass is meant to be played fingerstyle" and/or that bassists who use picks aren't "real" bassists. The prejudice is out there even if we don't see it here.
regarding real bassists, I was once asked what instrument I played and naturally said electric bass. I was then informed that electric bass was not a real instrument. :o who knew?
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Probably they were not real humans, but cyborgs from the planet Electrophobia.
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Probably they were not real humans, but cyborgs from the planet Electrophobia.
Or jazz snobs. Same difference.