The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Dave W on June 10, 2010, 09:39:50 PM
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According to this AP report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100609/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_sketchy_plans), he's been dead for five years:
"Among the glaring errors in the report: A professor is listed in BP's 2009 response plan for a Gulf of Mexico oil spill as a national wildlife expert. He died in 2005."
The professor couldn't be reached for comment.
And in other news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM
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That coffee spill clip is brilliant. And just too true.
I don't hold the morals of capitalism in high regard, but I used to believe in its utter efficiency to solve problems. Initially, I thought "BP have a way to stop this, but it would endanger future commercial exploitation of the oil field, so they cynically prefer leakage damage to permanent oil field destruction". Not so. These guys were/are actually clueless and make the Russians in Tshernobyl seem like master magicians in hindsight.
(http://markus.abaddon.de/Sarkophag.JPG)
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I still can't believe with all the rigs out there that someone hasn't thought about this before and made sure they had a viable solution. Shame on all of them.
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I don't hold the morals of capitalism in high regard, but I used to believe in its utter efficiency to solve problems.
As a system of commerce, capitalism has no morals. Neither do governments, corporations, environmental groups, etc. People have morals. Some high, some negotiable, some non-existent. The theory of capitalism's efficiency is based on the idea that it would be foolish for a company (whose reason for existence it to maximize profits for the benefit of its owners and stock holders) not to work efficiently (including contingency plans for unforeseen circumstances). BP's current problems aren't a result of any failing of capitalism. They're a result of the failing of those who put the company in the position it was in when it wasn't ready to respond accordingly to a foreseeable accident. In my book, bureaucracy and laziness allowing for that outcome is far more likely than capitalism, which is bureaucracy's (and laziness') natural enemy.
The regulators charged with overseeing the safety of the Deepwater Horizon were busy taking bribes, sleeping on the job, and surfing porn on the internet for hours at a time, rather than assure the safety of that rig. The Obama administration recently awarded that very rig an award based on its supposed record of safety and efficiency. Heh...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100516/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill_inspections
Since January 2005, inspectors issued just one minor infraction for the rig. That strong track record led the agency last year to herald the Deepwater Horizon as an industry model for safety....
Earlier AP investigations have shown that the doomed rig was allowed to operate without safety documentation required by MMS regulations for the exact disaster scenario that occurred; that the cutoff valve which failed has repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since regulators weakened testing requirements; and that regulation is so lax that some key safety aspects on rigs are decided almost entirely by the companies doing the work.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/05/25/25greenwire-interior-probe-finds-fraternizing-porn-and-dru-45260.html?pagewanted=all
Federal officials who oversaw drilling in the Gulf of Mexico accepted gifts from oil companies, viewed pornography at work and even considered themselves part of industry, the Interior Department inspector general says in a new report (pdf).
BP seems to have a great deal of responsibility in this mess, but they certainly are not alone.
The Dutch government offered their physical help and expertise within three days of the spill. The U.S. government basically said thanks, but no thanks... What kind of responsible leadership is that?
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html
This whole thing is a mess and I feel most for those in the Gulf who will be feeling the impact of everyone's irresponsibility long after the rest of us have gone on to the next news cycle in our bread and circus world.
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I can imagine lots of capitalist stocks and bonds specialists waiting to pounce on the BP stock, as soon as they sort the problem and start to get on an even keel again, so they can boast about the killing they made on Wall Street, Lloyds, etc...
Somebody, somewhere is really gonna make a mint out of all this, while the rest of us (ALL of us) will be left paying for it, quite literally...
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I think the blame on this will span BP, Transocean, and the government. Everything from budget shortcuts to lack of proper upkeep and maintenance, to tolerance from government in granting the approval to start with. It seems that the list of shortcomings and oversights gets longer and longer.
I think the photos that came out comparing the Dutch system of levees to the ones here are probably comparative. BP is obviously completely unprepared or capable of any real disaster response. My guess is that BP will soon be history, and the ones making the killing will be whoever buys them out of the grave. What did I see yesterday - BP stocks dropping by 1/3?
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This has been a real education for me. I had absolutely no idea anything like this could happen.
drill baby drill
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a lot of UK pensions are riding on that stock...
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a lot of UK pensions are riding on that stock...
Those are the other forgotten victims in this. A lot of people over here (U.S.) are slamming BP as a 'foreign' company, but U.S. interests own a great deal of the company as well, and the stockholders will suffer as the executives move on with their golden parachutes and new jobs at Exxon, Aramco, Tesoro, etc.
Many people are also questioning the wisdom of drilling a mile below the surface of the ocean. That method is a direct result of government intervention preventing companies from drilling closer in (as well as nixing most new on-land drilling in the U.S.). My opinion on those rules are beside the point, but it bears being said.
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I think US interests own 35-40% of BP?
I truly hope the feds come down harder on the oil industry as a result of this. They came down hard on the nuclear powerplants after Three Mile Island and thus far it's worked.
Read about the Mexican oil rig disaster of 30 years ago and you'll discover to your horror that BP (and probably all the other oil companies) are still using technology which is ancient. Those blowout preventers: been around for nearly 100 years. That Mexican disaster spewed out 170 million barrels of oil from June to March and this one has spewed over 100 million in 51 days.
It's shocking that we are facing the very real possibility of a dead Gulf of Mexico and if any hurricanes strike, it's going to compound the disaster 100 fold.
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I don't know who owns what percentage but the old British Petroleum merged with Amoco (Standard Oil of Indiana) maybe 10-12 years ago to form BP Amoco, then BP Amoco merged with or bought Arco and became just BP.
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I think I read the split is 48/52, with the US-held stock being the lion's share, but I think that is a non issue.
Failure of state regulation and monitoring, corporate responsibility, legal framework etc are all things that will be rectified in the future, I'm sure as there will be a crackdown on oil firms and public sentiment will applaud that. They will still be able to make enough money I'm sure.
My point wasn't capitalism-criticism either, but the fact that there is evidently no technical solution/cure for this. That baffles me as a child of the sixties were technical progress is taken for granted and as always overcoming the hugest obstacles.
BP's stock value has halved in recent weeks, down a stunning 70 billion (I forgot the currency, but they are all similar in value now anyway). In my view, that says more about the follies of the stock market than BP as company - it is still the same company, good or bad, and it still makes its money with a commodity we all crave for and which is getting scarcer. And even an oil spill of the current and coming magnitude in the gulf will not cause 70 billion to remediate. The stock market is out of touch with real life risk and chances.
Ironically, BP invested more into alternative energy than its competitors btw.
Going forward, I believe oil companies should be obligated to mandatorily all pay into an environmental fund as an industry insurance for future catastrohies like that. And if that means pay 10 cents more for every liter of gas, so be it, we all waste that stuff. Because only a fool will believe that what is now happening in the Gulf will stopp off shore deep oil drilling. It will be slowed down a little and it will become more expensive due to heightened security, but the quest for black gold will continue.
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Reposting this from a previous thread as a reference...
The harder Obama hit's BP the harder it will hit everyones pockets - oil is not the long-term answer... As Uwe noted BP is trying to invest in the future... not much chance of that at the moment...
I wonder which petrochem companies are investing heavily in the post oil world...?
I'm not slinging tar-balls here, but here are some interesting stats, and we all know what those are (lies, damned lies, etc)
BP being called British is interesting... 40% is British owned; 39% is US owned... unless their website has got that wrong too...
Of the 21% of those shares that are owned by "individuals" 7% is UK; 14% is US...
http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9010453&contentId=7019612 (http://www.bp.com/extendedsectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9010453&contentId=7019612)
Of the top six users of oil in the world, positions 2 thru 6 nearly equate to US usage, which is approximately 20% of the total planet useage, of which they are only able to produce slightly less than half that figure...
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/index.cfm?view=consumption (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/index.cfm?view=consumption)
I wonder which other petrochem companies are investing heavily in the post oil world...?
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Because only a fool will believe that what is now happening in the Gulf will stopp off shore deep oil drilling. It will be slowed down a little and it will become more expensive due to heightened security, but the quest for black gold will continue.
CNN, for better or worse, was showing the full picture of oil drilling in the Gulf. They were saying that there are something like 300 rigs from various companies out in the Gulf. All but 70, the deepest, are still actively pumping. The BP disaster has shut down operations for other companies, as well, so the impact widens a bit more. I wouldn't be surprised to see BP overtaken by another company in a takeover bid.
Maybe BP should have put a little less money in alternative fuels, and gotten their act together with the existing technology a little better. It's just astounding that a company willing to invest so much would be so shortsighted in ensuring the best and safest means of running the actual operations.
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How much is a gallon of standard diesel around the world at the moment...?
UK price is approx £1.20 per litre which is roughly £5.46 a gallon which is about $7.92 a gallon
What other companies are operating out there, Gary...? is that BP's only rig in the Gulf...?
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CNN, for better or worse, was showing the full picture of oil drilling in the Gulf....................It's just astounding that a company willing to invest so much would be so shortsighted in ensuring the best and safest means of running the actual operations.
BP holds the lease and it is their contractors that screwed the pooch. As the lease holders they have the ultimate liability in the entire mess. Transocean in turn most likely had all kinds of crontractors on board as well. While I'm not sure what BP's insurance setup is I do know from experience that most major corperations are self insured through an insurance underwriter - meaing that Acme insurance handles the claims and paperwork Wyle E. Coyote' Inc. pays out the funds.
Having been around this industry quite a bit these last 28 years I can tell you that this technology is highly advanced. A lot of the engineering, construction and jobs are here on the gulf coast. The blowout preventers work and work well - all of the active rigs in the Gulf that have been lost to Hurricanes have not leaked a drop thanks to the preventers. The preventer in this instance sounds like it didn't have a chance as there was massive chemical reaction, casued by human error, that caused the ultimate failure.
The law suits will last past our lifetimes.
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per your last sentence, not surprising at all. :sad:
I said astounding, not surprising. :mrgreen:
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How much is a gallon of standard diesel around the world at the moment...?
UK price is approx £1.20 per litre which is roughly £5.46 a gallon which is about $7.92 a gallon
What other companies are operating out there, Gary...? is that BP's only rig in the Gulf...?
Among the ones I could see in the CNN charts were Shell, Exxon, and a number of foreign companies.
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If the insurers have to pick up the tab, that will be another inch of our pockets they will be digging into, I guess...
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the new containment valve is ready to go:
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/cathousemouse/pluggingtheoilleak.jpg)
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the new containment valve is ready to go:
:mrgreen:
I wouldn't wish that on the poor sea critters.
If you can stand a little more satire directed at BP, check out BP Public Relations on Twitter (http://twitter.com/bpglobalpr).
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Sorry Dave, but I think that video may be false. I mean, Kevin Costner? WTF?
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Sorry Dave, but I think that video may be false. I mean, Kevin Costner? WTF?
Seriously, BP has given a letter of intent to buy 32 of the cleanup machines Kevin Costner is selling.
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I did a little search, and found a few things as far as current activity. Some of these aren't really detailed, though. Chevron also has operations there that are impacted.
(http://www.newshoggers.com/blog/images/2008/08/30/oil_rigs.jpg)
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/06/interior_lists_oil_drilling_op.html (http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/06/interior_lists_oil_drilling_op.html)
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I read about the Costner thing a couple weeks ago. It seems that Waterworld made a bigger impact on Kevin than anyone else and he's been working on this 'project' for years. I have no idea whether it's a crock or not, but he believes enough to have spent a great deal of his own money along the way (supposedly), so I guess we'll hear about it if it works.
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"Dances with oil spills" will then be his new movie!
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A remake of the Red Adair film... all at sea...?
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Yes, and he'll have those cute little gills from Waterworld again! I'm pretty sure that Dennis Hopper's recent death stems from having been unfortunate enough to have played that movie!!!
I actually like Kevin Costner as an actor - he just should be allowed to make his own films. He is definitely no Clint Eastwood in that respect.
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How much is a gallon of standard diesel around the world at the moment...?
UK price is approx £1.20 per litre which is roughly £5.46 a gallon which is about $7.92 a gallon
I saw diesel this weekend for $2.89/gallon, but I'm paying $3.50/gallon for 100% biodiesel. Being around the truck now makes me hungry because the damn thing smells like french fries!
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regarding the govt/capitalism/corporations blame game, its kinda like the sub prime thing all over again just with an environmental aspect to it. Ultimately its a combination of stupid and greedy people.
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The greed/need for oil is not a BP invention. Imagine what would have happened had Obama campaigned with the plan to hike gasoline prices by an "environmental emergency tax" of say 20 cents per gallon or the promise to shut down oil drilling in the Gulf "pending a governmental review of existing security controls there". His opponents would have had a field day.
Everybody hates to see a pelican covered up all in oil - poor bird, but relatively few people are willing to alter their personal energy consumption radically or welcome administration that compels them to do so. There is a little BP in all of us, we helped rear the monster.
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There is a little BP in all of us, we helped rear the monster.
Speaketh not it's name for fear of conjuring up the beast...
True words, indeed Uwe, I could not sum it up better...
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I love the guy from Chevvron this morning on the radio expousing the virtues of his company over the evil BP. Saying words to the effect "it would never happen on one of our rigs" and "If BP had fully implemented 3 specific procedures and used X component this would not have been an issue".
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I heard that today. BP had a better, but more expensive emergency pipe option, but chose the "almost as good" cheaper option. Surprise. You don't get 6 billion US-Dollar quarterly results from nothing.
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BP = Bungling Polluters
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I love the guy from Chevvron this morning on the radio expousing the virtues of his company over the evil BP. Saying words to the effect "it would never happen on one of our rigs" and "If BP had fully implemented 3 specific procedures and used X component this would not have been an issue".
I heard that too, but ask Chevron about their activities in Richmond, California or the mess in Ecuador or this week's oil leak in Utah:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/14/utah-oil-spill-officials-_n_611014.html
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One thing died in the Gulf even before the first Pelican did: the faith in BP's technological prowess and superiority. Even with an accidental, grossly negligent oil spill, BP could have kept this from becoming a PR disaster, had they had a quick, technically brilliant fix, a sincere apology and a generous wallet. If only!
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You'd think that if there was true concern for the impact of the problem, some of those other oil companies might think of offering some help, rather than take the vulture position, waiting for BP to die, and then pick up the remnants in a fire sale.
The Costner centrifuge actually looks interesting, and it makes sense. We'll see if it works. He was on CNN yesterday showing it off, and explaining it.
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You'd think that if there was true concern for the impact of the problem, some of those other oil companies might think of offering some help, rather than take the vulture position, waiting for BP to die, and then pick up the remnants in a fire sale.
I'm sure they view this as "not my problem"...and given the overall situation, if I were them I'd probably be keeping as far away as possible. The bad PR could easily rub off, and getting involved could cost them a bunch of $$$.
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You'd think that if there was true concern for the impact of the problem, some of those other oil companies might think of offering some help, rather than take the vulture position, waiting for BP to die, and then pick up the remnants in a fire sale.
Just throwing this out there, and NOT intending to turn this political, but there have been offers of help from foreign governments and corporations, but our government has not waived the Jones Act, apparently under pressure from American labor unions. Read here (http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/06/is-protectionism-and-union-power.html) and here (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html).
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So now the Union is putting another layer on this? Ouch.
You know, the more I learn about this whole thing, the closer I am to putting this in the "Man at his finest hour" folder.
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I'm sure they view this as "not my problem"...and given the overall situation, if I were them I'd probably be keeping as far away as possible. The bad PR could easily rub off, and getting involved could cost them a bunch of $$$.
I think you are too kind Al. I reckon Gary is close to the mark with his vulture theory.
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This is one man's allegation. I sure hope it's not true: BP ‘burning sea turtles alive’ (http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0620/bp-burning-sea-turtles-alive/)
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The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion how much better off this planet would be if we all just disappeared... :sad:
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I wanna be BP's wildlife expert for a week...I can use the money.
Then I'll slink back into invisibility after taking my beating.