The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Basvarken on November 20, 2012, 12:27:38 PM
-
As much as I love Led Zeppelin studio albums I've always found them very sloppy at live recordings that I've heard/seen.
Now, five year after the O2 concert they're finally releasing the DVD of that reunion gig.
They've doctored it to death...
And still they sound sloppy! :o
The timing is way off more than once. Page and Jones don't seem to have the main riff down pat.
Plant is fighting his way through the song.
This YouTube video is supposed to be a teaser for the DVD. But all it did was convince me I don't need to buy the DVD.
Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpigDGf6vXM
Okay Uwe, you can finish it off now. ;)
-
As long as Jones/Bonham were/are tight, I can live with Page's sloppiness. I have the BBC Sessions CD, and I like it quite a bit. It was more the improv and openness of the songs that I liked about them like. I seem to recall a moment (and I only watched a short few minutes) in The Song Remains The Same, where Jones and Bonham definitely slid off the rails.
At least they named this DVD after my favorite Zep tune. 8)
-
My my my, I'm so happy... ;)
Got it on pre-order. Waiting patiently. Gonna have a viewing party with a couple of drummer friends (I have a lot of those...). Can't wait to watch it with my daughter!
-
No, I won't (finish them off). Zep are Zep are Zep. People like them because of the ethereal hippie bullshit in their music which supposedly means something deep, they are not even a heavy rock band, just one with a couple of heavy rock tracks.
If tightness of live performance was of relevance to the larger public, then Foghat and Status Quo would have outsold Zep long ago. They didn't so the public gets the Zep it deserves.
I'll even buy the CD (not the DVD, I find Robert Plant aloof and sour-faced as a frontman) because I like it that he now sings some songs in a deeper register.That is another thing that always bugged me about this runaway Yardbirds outfit: I could never understand Plant's lyrics underneath his banshee wail and where I did, I couldn't understand what it was supposed to mean unless it was lemon juice dripping down his legs, that was a socially aware statement that resonated with me even though I had sex with oranges (hey, I was young, 13, and read about it in Playboy magazine!) not lemons. Orange acid bites quite enough, vielen dank, Robert Plant had obviously no idea what he was singing about. :mrgreen:
Enough of this, I'm seeing a Deep Purple concert at Festhalle tomorrow - let's not taint this anointed experience-to-be even further ...
Zep who? :mrgreen:
Seriously: I wish all Zep fans a nice nostalgic warm gut feeling listening to this/seeing it.
Uwe
-
No, I won't (finish them off). Zep are Zep are Zep. People like them because of the ethereal hippie bullshit in their music which supposedly means something deep, they are not even a heavy rock band, just one with a couple of heavy rock tracks.
If tightness of live performance was of relevance to the larger public, then Foghat and Status Quo would have outsold Zep long ago. They didn't so the public gets the Zep it deserves.
I'll even buy the CD (not the DVD, I find Robert Plant aloof and sour-faced as a frontman) because I like it that he now sings some songs in a deeper register.That is another thing that always bugged me about this runaway Yardbirds outfit: I could never understand Plant's lyrics underneath his banshee wail and where I did, I couldn't understand what it was supposed to mean unless it was lemon juice dripping down his legs, that was a socially aware statement that resonated with me even though I had sex with oranges (hey, I was young, 13, and read about it in Playboy magazine!) not lemons. Orange acid bites quite enough, vielen dank, Robert Plant had obviously no idea what he was singing about. :mrgreen:
Enough of this, I'm seeing a Deep Purple concert at Festhalle tomorrow - let's not taint this anointed experience-to-be even further ...
Zep who? :mrgreen:
Seriously: I wish all Zep fans a nice nostalgic warm gut feeling listening to this/seeing it.
Uwe
I think I soiled myself....
The thing about Zep was that they never boxed themselves into a predictable style. Not many bands could do the range of material they had, from bastardized blues, to country (Hot Dog), to more progressive sounds (Kashmir, Achilles Last Stand), and folk (Battle of Evermore). What always appealed to me was the sound, and the 101 layers of guitar that Page managed as producer.
-
"What always appealed to me was the sound, and the 101 layers of guitar that Page managed as producer."
Apart from Bonham's hamfisted, non-swinging drumming, the sound of Led Zep albums is what always bugged me most! Unfocused, everything everywhere, no "less is more"-concept except on a few underproduced jammy tracks, JPJ hard to single out, keyboards not really overt in what they play, multitudes of guitar tracks orchestral, yes, but not really discernible from another.
I realize while I'm writing this that I'm basically criticizing Led Zep for not sounding like DP did on Machine Head! :mrgreen: That is not fair. Obviously, that hazy, indistinct and often billowing sound had its fans. I find that they had a studio sound that made it hard (for me) to single out the individual components and latch onto something, but realize at the same time that that might be exactly what many people like about them. With DP it was always crystal-clear what each instrument was doing and why, the production hid nothing and added only very little to the natural sound of the instruments. Which is why DP sounded hardly different live than on their studio albums (even though they improvised live a lot, possibly more than Led Zep, the overall band sound wasn't too different from the studio) and why Whole Lotta Love is barely recognizable on TSRTS. The Purple sound was simple, even banal, just played very well. Zep, otoh, built those grand hazy sound landscapes that remind me of the Wizard of Oz machine: Once you get closer, there really isn't too much there!
Sound appeal habbits tend to stick: I'm sure my penchant for JP has to do with the fact that production- and writing-wise they were closer in sound and composition to DP and Black Sabbath (that drummer could swing!) than to LZ. And I found a lot of bands that replicated the LZ sound more or less successfully like Rush (in their early days), Paris, Detective and of course Kingdom Come hard going to really get to like.
But, my dear Zeppelinos, do remember laughter and let Uwe just ramble on while you enjoy the DVD and CD! They have written rock history, nobody can take that away from them, and they were hugely influential too.
Rob, why don't you give the new Golden Earring a try instead? That is nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8H4K6L5v6I&feature=relmfu
-
Sooooooo......what you're saying is that the material wasn't able to stand up by itself without the added layers. :o
Dare I even whisper under baited breath that I have never liked "Smoke On The Water" despite loving DP?
-
Oooo... the gloves... are... off...! :popcorn:
-
That's ok. I like the riff (and the way the instruments enter one by one at the start of the song), the verse is nothing to write home about. Ze Purps never thought much of it themselves. WB released it as a single against their will. It was a hastily written song in the aftermath of the casino fire. Initially, they weren't even sure whether it should enter their live set.
Blackmore himself has admitted that his penchant of playing riffs with fourths or fifths rather than single notes came from watching Oscar Peterson do that to make his piano riffs "sound nastier" - it left a lasting impression on Blackers.
Purple for me is more a song like Sail Away, it encapsulates their influences and strengths:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkxEhfSqOW0
And one other thing I always liked about them: You could understand their lyrics well! Plant's histrionics and mannered phrasing makes understanding his lyrics difficult for a non-native speaker like me, he never had clarity like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvviInCUW8o&feature=related
Re your question: Now that you mention it, no, I do not think that Led Zep were the greatest or even decent camp fire songwriters. A lot of their stuff was esoteric rather than catchy. Kashmir lives from the drama not from a stripped down approach. One thing you can say for them: They were never obvious hit merchants. But they were daring in tackling outside influences and their convoluted riffs had a charm. But, no, their material needed the big production and the extra instrumental layers and they had issues reproducing it live which Purple never had. Whole Lotta Love, for instance, is not really reproducable live. I've never heard either a Zep version or a version by another band that even came close.
Well, the talented girls of Blonde on Blonde at least made a valiant effort emphasizing the finer nuances of this harmonically complex Page/Plant composition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5tOtxw0UE
-
Oooo... the gloves... are... off...! :popcorn:
No, they're not! I enjoy discussing Led Zep because their popularity eludes me, they are an interesting phenomenon or maybe I'm just weird.
-
No, they're not! I enjoy discussing Led Zep because their popularity eludes me, they are an interesting phenomenon or may I'm just weird.
When they first hit, I was in college. All the Dead heads and hippies hated them. One of my Frat brothers threw LZ II out the second story window of the house like a frisbee.
Maybe this version is more to your liking. 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg8iQxbDoiw
-
Here's a good Zep cover ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-_9cwdLug
Uwe's edit: Best live clip from Angel I've seen sofar. Where is Giuffria though?
-
;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw7ZNzeImUs
-
When they first hit, I was in college. All the Dead heads and hippies hated them. One of my Frat brothers threw LZ II out the second story window of the house like a frisbee.
Maybe this version is more to your liking. 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg8iQxbDoiw
Sure I like it better, it has harmonies!
What Dave posted I like too, big band arrangements wirk with a lot of Purple stuff too.
-
Never my cuppa even though we almost became a Zep tribute! I ditched the Jazz Bass as soon as I saw a opening ;) I'd rather play Smoke On The Water any day.
No, they're not! I enjoy discussing Led Zep because their popularity eludes me, they are an interesting phenomenon or may I'm just weird.
-
Now the zep fans and dead heads have something in common. They will both lay down a bunch of dough to subject themselves to a band that is a shell of its former self and way past its prime. The last years of Jerry's performances where pretty depressing and cringe worthy. So was the zep reunion IMO. The rabid and hysteric demand of the Zep loving masses would have come out to see Plant even he had a tracheotomy and sang through a voice box. Some things are best left in the past.
-
No, they're not! I enjoy discussing slagging off Led Zep because their popularity eludes me...
;D
Never understood their (live) popularity myself either - as I've pointed out before my lasting impression of Knebworth was a broken nose and not their show - studio wise... there is some of their material which is almost timeless in its beauty...
Plant and Gillan are very differing voices but Coverdale is closer to Plant than Gillan...
-
The Led Zeppelin Mothership CD set is worth a listen. I find the sound to be much superior to any of the regular CD's that I had purchased over the years. (and even the vinyl I still have) My older sisters had LZ I, II, III and IV. I listened to II all the time as an 8 year old. I really got into them when Physical Graffiti came out.
-
Physical Graffiti is self-indulgent but nicely varied. A lot of the material on it is less pretentious than the usual Zep fare. I remember the Rolling Stone review, they clobbered Kashmir as "boring after the first two minutes". My favorite Zep album along with the unavoidable IV - though that contains Stay away from Heaven or whatever it is called, from the first listen I thought that song a pretentious amalgam of hot air.
True Coverdale, even before he became blond Daisy, is more Plant than Gillan, also harder to understand than Gillan! Plant and Coverdale both have strong blues influences, Gillan was more a Elvis Presley and Little Richard buff. Of course, Gillan can wipe the foor with both of them as a lyricist.
-
the unavoidable IV - though that contains Stay away from Heaven or whatever it is called, from the first listen I thought that song a pretentious amalgam of hot air.
One of my favorite guitar solo's though. On a Telecaster no less!
-
I listened to II all the time as an 8 year old.
I burned a CD of mp3s of Zeppelin, Stones and Beatles songs for my 6yo son. He listens to it in the car all the time, in preference to the Top 40 pop compilation CD we bought him last Christmas. It's very cool to be driving along and being able to hear Kashmir blasting from the headphones in the back seat.
-
Now that's a proper musical education, way to go!
-
I agree whole heartedly! My band does this tune, every time we play it I want to nod off, I can't help but think there's eight minutes of my life I can't get back. A complete geetard wank feast.
I remember the Rolling Stone review, they clobbered Kashmir as "boring after the first two minutes".
-
It has grown on me over the years, no decades. The way Bonzo drums through it 4/4 until it all makes sense again, ignoring Page's strange meters. Probably a coincidence or sheer laziness on Bonzo's part, but charming. Lyrics are sheer rubbish though as they mostly are with Robert Plant. He ain't Bob Dylan for sure.
-
It has grown on me over the years, no decades. The way Bonzo drums through it 4/4 until it all makes sense again, ignoring Page's strange meters. Probably a coincidence or sheer laziness on Bonzo's part, but charming. Lyrics are sheer rubbish though as they mostly are with Robert Plant. He ain't Bob Dylan for sure.
Found an interesting live video here...note that the lead is played on a Danelectro!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig
-
One of my favorite Bonzo moments occurs on In My Time Of Dying.
-
page frequently played that 'mother of diving board' guitar.
-
Yes, you've got to grant it to him, he could make junk sound like something and was not elitist about his instruments at all.
-
Page used that Dan-O live on the songs he played in the DADGAD tuning - White Summer/Black Mountain Side, Kashmir, possibly others. I think he may have owned it since the Yardbirds days.
-
The girls in that Angel clip posted above
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=7474.msg120206#msg120206
use one too - very faithfully.
-
The O2 gig was broadcasted on Belgian TV last night.
Jimmy Page has added a whole new dimension to the word sloppy
:o
Much respect to Plant for calling it a day after this disaster!
And kudos to Jason Bonham and JP Jones for keeping it together despite the erratic guitar parts ...
-
Rob, I can't believe I would ever get into the predicament of having to defend LZ of all bands, but I saw the DVD in full yesterday morning while reading a file for work (yup, multitasking, in fact I can read legal texts better with music playing than without) and I thought it was a worthy gig, the band has aged gracefully, tackling some of the songs in a different key has proven a worthwhile decision too as Plant can sing them now (well) like a man his age and avoid banshee histrionics (while I watched I thought that current DP should actually downtune some of their stuff too to give Gillan live less hard a time, he seems to refuse to let them do that).
The light show was tasteful and hats off to them for not getting in any guest musicians to beef up their sound, when Jones plays keyboards they have to rely on keyboard bass, what other band of their status would do that? Jimmy Page is not Ritchie Blackmore in melodic and technical dexterity (I always told you, Rob, yet you wouldn't listen!), but he plays with gusto and warmth, there is sloppier and more bored/listless stuff on The Song Remains the Same. The only naff part was him getting the bow out - in my eyes always more a visual stunt than an acoustic embellishment (what's so great about getting an expensive Custom Shop Les Paul to sound like a screeching door in a cheap horror movie?), without drugs it looked all a bit silly (always has).
And for the first time I was impressed by John Paul Jones, who with an admirably rich vintage bass sound (no treble at all, never mind what basses he switched from song to song, even the eight string sounded mudbuckerish) held everything together, nice fretless playing on In my Time of Dying too (while combining fretless bass and slide guitar in one song seems - duh!- obvious, I haven't seen it before, it sounds great), and has more of stage presence now than I think he had in Hammer of the Gods heydays.
Maybe because I am not a fan my expectations weren't as high as yours (I remember how utterly disappointed I was about The Song Remains the Same when that came out, Whole Lotta Love was barely recognizable on that), but I found the DVD entertaining and it gave me a warm feeling about the three old geezers. Maybe it's time they and I make peace? ;D Ok, let's not get carried away. :-X
One, no, two final observations:
- I like Jason's drumming better than his dad's and JPH seemed to enjoy it too.
- The sound of the three instrumentalists playing together is very full and warm on that DVD plus it sounds a lot more cohesive than anything else I've heard from them live (including some of the "How the West was Won"-stuff). The few bum notes and breaks here and there don't detract from the overall groove they have.
I still think that Plant is an aloof (or is he just shy?) frontman. Certainly no "embracing the masses"-guy (though not everyone has to be) and about as talkative as Liam Gallagher! :mrgreen: But he sings well and relaxed on that concert. Laid Back Zeppelin, but befitting their age. Not everybody has to be Mick Jagger.
-
^^^
I watched the DVD on my tablet while on a plane trip over the holiday break, and I agree with much of Uwe's review above. I found the concert to be very enjoyable, and I loved that the band seemed to be realyl enjoying themselves too. I also loved that they played a few songs that they had never performed live before - that was a special treat as far as I'm concerned. And Page has always been sloppy, but that's his schtick.
-
They were on Letterman a few weeks back. Very nice interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEdmJRqoMaI