The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: sniper on September 04, 2008, 11:59:06 AM
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I can donate a two-point "evertilt" bridge with funny saddles.
if we are going to do this, lets get some ideas of what is to be built.
i vote for a repop of his old mutt as close as possible. he had an EB given to him but it was not a mutt. it was a 65 eb3. it wouldn't have to be a hurry up job of any sort and might take awhile and might merit some thinking on how it should be made for example: there are no short scale mahogany necks being sold by Gibson (no surprise there!) but a rose wood neck might sound close and it would not require a finish. judging from the appearence of his "Mutt" i doubt if there was any finish left on the back of his neck at all aside of having a "few" years sweat and grime soaked in. a rosewood neck might do the trick as it would require no finish and the tonal characteristics should be close to Mahogany. Rosewood is an oily wood so it might even feel close to him. same with the bridge = a Schaller type that is still being made today.
finding out what kind of pups he had and then finding them might be the biggest hurdle as well as figuring out the wiring. i am reffering to a pic in this post:
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=999.0
over all i think the mojo from a bunch of us with used parts (specific to the picture posted) we have or have used or a small donation or what ever a member can afford would mean a lot to him.
maybe i should post this as a new topic and get some opinions?
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i can see it now = the worlds only bass with three necks, two bodies, 19 pickups of all types 12 bridges, 29 pots and switches and 47 tuners all donated !!!!!!
maybe we need a coordinator for this?
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(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/gweimer/Kelp/gary_weimer.jpg)
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[quote author=old puppy link=topic=1169.msg14711#msg14711 date=1220554746
over all i think the mojo from a bunch of us with used parts (specific to the pictue posted) we have or have used or a small donation or what ever a member can afford would mean a lot to him.
[/quote]
Wow, that's more ambitious than I was thinking. I have no parts I can contribute (being lefty will do that where Gibson is concerned) but if you guys decide to go for it I'd be glad to kick in a few bucks.
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let me ask the site officers (Uwe and the Doc and Dave) if they would give me permission to do this via this sites postings and maybe a sticky or two in a few discussion forums.
i know this might take awhile to get done but i would volunteeer to coordinate the effort. this would probably involve collecting donations of parts and donations, buying parts then asking for a vote for a luthier or builder and coming to terms with the cost of building.
i would need to gather information about how many of us there are and probably get a confirmation by posting count or private messages sent to confirm it will be possible.
please feel free to post any opinions..............and thoughts.
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I don't have any parts to contribute but I could help with dollars. somebody (barklessdog?) should speak with Watt about this project before launching it.
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good idea about speaking with Mike. there is a lot of things that must be done (i just sent Uwe a PM) including some research about:
1) wiring
2) if he would actually play it
3) what were the pups on the original Mutt
4) making a list of parts needed like a 4-way switch (i know where they can be bought)
5) figuring out a builder = maybe voting when a donation is made?
6) agreeing on what to be built!!! mutt or totally new construction or a combo of both? finish? new parts or old etc?
i just got a mesage from Brian Eckels at Warmoth. he talked to the boss about this and they won't discount anything but would be willing to open their custom shop to this project. a month ago i couldn't get anything done at their custom shop as they were too booked up!!! making a setneck from a bolt on shouldn't be a big trick. they are talking a Baritone neck out of Rosewood with a Rosewood fretboard with an LP head, no tuner holes or markers or fret lines. Baritone would equal a 28 5/8 inch scale, but would convert to a 30.5 inch scale by moving the mounting location from a guitar to a bass measurement on the bridge. the fretless would have to be converted to a fretted neck. i was told the glue they use is pretty tough and doesn't remove easily, so the fretting groves would have to be cut with the fretboard on the neck!
finding a body is another thing. a Gibby would be nice so would one wait till the donations got to a good level and try to get one off the bay or have a copy made at a builder or supplier like Warmoth?
that might not be a bad idea = should get a good fit neck to body that way and convert it to a setneck, but again it would be nice to start with a Gibby for the authenticity of having a serial number and old wood. might take a bit of diligence on watching the bay for a project!
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Someone really ought to talk to Mike before going any further.
I have no problem with having a thread about this as long as no one is pressured to participate or donate. But if you decide to do a "mutt" project bass then the thread should be in the Projects forum. It would be up to Doc if he wants to make it a sticky.
Why you would want to deal with Warmoth? It's not their kind of job. Michael Dolan would build a custom short scale neck, probably for no more than Warmoth. I've also heard good things about Soulmate (http://www.soulmateguitars.com/Necks.htm).
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just throwing ideas out Dave and seeing what kind of feedback i get for a project like this. soulmate looks really nice = i have never heard of them b4.
it might behoove the post if it would be possible to get a vote setup for this. like what kind of bass (new parts or used, finish, Gibby project based or new stuff) and Mike Dolan would certainly be a primo candidate for a buider hands down. i think i mentioned him before as a possible builder.
the way prices are still escalating with vintage parts, it might even be possible to get a used SG Reissue cheaper and replace the pups and pots! save a lot of work in the long run i'll bet.
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I have an NOS pair of creme Dimarzio Model G's that I'd be cool with donating.
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welcome Matt, haven't seen you b 4 but that would be a life saver if this project is to kick off as that would be one of the the hardest parts to find save a Dan Armstrong bass pup. Kent is still making them but how close to his fathers specs they are i don't know. there might be suitable replacements for the D/A pup like maybe a TB Plus or one of Kent's pups that are sold through WD Music. maybe one of Fralins new pups might work also. there are three pups to get.
one of your DM pups would be enough. i sent a message to Uwe, Dave and Doc Bill. basically i was told if it was a voluntary basis then it could get an okay to go providing some one like Barkless talks to Mike first before this goes any further and see's what he thinks. it would be ideal to to an make a surprize BUT it would be darn near impossible without his knowledge of the original mutt.
i found out tonight i have to move b 4 Oct 1st and i have already volunteered to coordinate the project but i'll say i wish a site officer (think of the above three) would handle any donations. i have a place parts can be sent to that is safe (an old High School buddy that is a highly decorated Marine survivor of hill 885 during the 68 TET at Khe Sanh) i trust him with my life. parts would be safe there.
i could handle the donations with any of my spreadsheet software regardless of where i move to around here. he has internet access. but i really wish one of the site officers would either do it or appoint someone to handle the cash donations. it would take an open account with a bank and maybe a paypal registered account to that bank account but that shouldn't be a problem to keep track of with almost any spreadsheet software. it would not be a for profit endeavor and max it would be between 1500 and 2 grand i would think to cover all the purchases and pay labor for the build. that is just a guess on my part though.
it might be considerably less money depending on the parts donated!!!!!!!!!!
BARKLESS? you out there and can you talk to Mike?
later man, it is almost 4 AM and i am beat.
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Well, I have a 3 pointer I could throw in, but all of my spare hardware is for hollow body basses, so I can't help much in that arena. I think this is a cool idea. I'd love to be the "luthier" but I'm so swamped right now, it would take me forever to get this done and I'm not quite mentally ready to do stuff for other folks. Right now, my policy is if I "f" something up, I only piss myself off in the process!! :P. What kind of time line are we talking here?
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good morning Doc,
right now i'm a bit upset because i found out there might be a good chance i will be homeless again in three weeks. not a good thought but i have been there before. NBD.
as i explained i have a good place for parts to centralize and know they would be safe.
last night i sent a message to Kent Armstrong and to Mike Watt via his hootspot. Kents reply is this:
"Hi Bill,
Kent's reply:
Dear Bill : I would say 80% close. Kent
regards,
Ben Green
T: 01233 820082F: 01233 820345http://www.wdmusic.co.uk
"UK's Best Online Source Of Guitar Parts"
On 5 Sep 2008, at 01:30, Secret Agent X (dats me!!!) wrote:
how close is the kent armstrong blade musicman type bass pup compared to the original dan armstrong blade type bass pup?
might wanna ask kent about this one.
thanks,
bill"
next move = a maybe until i get the word back (old navy talk from my corpsman days). the old man sent the word down = Mike hasn't sent the word back yet.
i totally understand about the ready part as that is exactly why Scott (here in Springfield) turned down my build. he felt he isn't ready yet. i have faith in him but thats the way it is. when a jarhead is bleeding, it doesn't matter who slaps the dressisng on, the bloods gotta stop irregardless. i still have total faith in you but thats the way it is. i wanted to leave the corps because of a confidence problem. i turned into a pretty good OR Tech regardless. (think MASH) lol. you can build my bass anytime.
timeline: not looking for much in under a year probably. with parts collection, donation collection and keeping all that straight, then finding a "luthier/builder" and depending how swamped he/she is after we get opinions of who the posters think is best = Dolan, Thelen, GOT, Rodent, You, etc there are so many candidates out there i am at a loss to choose one definitively. i would expect maybe a few months of parts collection from here as well as donations and i'd guess at but suggest meeting a financial goal or level before proceeding. in the mean time we can view all opinions here. thats what forums are for, right?
a word about parts collection:
having a commitment about parts is probably going to be one of the hardest parts. i would suggest not using a central collection spot until all the parts are commited to this project and let the donars set on them till then. it would save a lot of postage till then and then make sure they all get together b 4 commitment to a luthier. i would assume that a builder would like to have all the parts at once and a central collection spot would work best for that purpose. commitment tracking can be done with any spreadsheet software until then via IM's to the coordinator. we can keep a running list and that would help the contributors envision the build also. working changes will be made on the list i am sure.
a word about money collection: IMHO that is:
if a reasonable goal cannot be reached in say a year or when it reached then is when the collecting and commiting to a builder should be made (ANY VOLUNTEERS?). if the goal is not reached then maybe a donation in the name of Mike or the post should be made to a worthwhile organization and not someones beer fund. i would nominate the American Cancer Society. As an afterthought the money could work on a PLEDGE system too!!!, just have the coordinator keep track of it on the same spreadsheet. when the goal is reached then boogeyfly! whad doo ya thimpk? no lose of funds or parts in case this thing turns south and no hard feelings because nothing is lost except for some time and effort on the behalf of a lot of good people with good intentions! pledges have to be met though once the goal is reached and everything is called for!!! but we should not be asking for an arm and a leg. set giving goals. say nothing under 5$ or over 20$ and parts would be on an as needed priority until a major purchase is needed say an old bass or body and neck then we could collect a reasonable amount towards that purchase. no duplication of gifts from anyone would ensure a fair feeling of accoplishment from all participants but one could make a donation of both parts and a cash donation. (another one of those whadd do ya thimpk player/outposter deals?)
research is needing to be done. what were the parts that made the original Mutt? once we hear from Mike yay or nay.
gotta get ready to baby set Jaden = ciao
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Think of it along the same lines as the now-delayed Bachbird project. If a number of people want to do this, whether it's three people or three dozen, it would be fine to talk about it and coordinate it here, publicly in the Projects forum or by private messaging.
But there is just no way that the forum will get officially involved with the project, especially with something involving collecting money.
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thanks for your help Dave. please do this
1) move this to the projects forum.
2) i will consider this dormant until i hear from Mike yay or nay or don't hear from Mike for a reasonable time.
3) i will try to research the original mutt as to parts (i probably can glean a lot of info off these pages) or try and ask where i can't find anything and make a wish list maybe even try to upgrade a bit like lighter tuners or remain open to suggestions and substiutions on the wish list.
4) and if i try and continue this it will be on a voluntary pledge basis where no parts or money changes hands until goals are met. all i need is a spread sheet to keep track from posters IM's or posts.
you guys are tops.
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Fine with me. This is a larger undertaking than one would think, lots of coordinating and communicating required. Can you pull this off without a home front? Hope it works for you.
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this is a little off topic but it doesn't warrant a new thread.
Dr B wrote, "I'm not quite mentally ready to do stuff for other folks. Right now, my policy is if I "f" something up, I only piss myself off in the process!!"
imo, there's nothing wrong with being modest (in fact, it's an endearing quality), but your skills at restoring/refurbishing/rebuilding are apparent to everyone here or anyone who has seen your work. I understand you do this as a hobby and for your personal satisfaction but you've acheived results that most of us can only dream of. you shouldn't sell yourself short! if you are considering taking on outside work at some point in the future, I think it would be a successful venture.
ok, back to Mike's Mutt....
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this is a little off topic but it doesn't warrant a new thread.
Dr B wrote, "I'm not quite mentally ready to do stuff for other folks. Right now, my policy is if I "f" something up, I only piss myself off in the process!!"
imo, there's nothing wrong with being modest (in fact, it's an endearing quality), but your skills at restoring/refurbishing/rebuilding are apparent to everyone here or anyone who has seen your work. I understand you do this as a hobby and for your personal satisfaction but you've acheived results that most of us can only dream of. you shouldn't sell yourself short! if you are considering taking on outside work at some point in the future, I think it would be a successful venture.
ok, back to Mike's Mutt....
Wow, thanks for the compliments. I do have very high expectations of myself and that holds me back for sure. While I am generally happy with my results, I'm slow, still learning many things, I make more mistakes than I'd like (although making them and correcting them is a good learning experience) and my full time job gets in the way of doing things an any kind of a schedule. All of that keeps me from doing work for others. I do plan to go full bore with restoring/building in a couple years when I retire! I can't wait!!!
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your reasons for keeping it in-house for the time being are completely understandable, just wanted to give you an outside perspective. regarding mistakes, I find they are among the best teachers I've ever had! ;D
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your reasons for keeping it in-house for the time being are completely understandable, just wanted to give you an outside perspective. regarding mistakes, I find they are among the best teachers I've ever had! ;D
Thanks, I appreciate it. Yep, there's nothing like mistakes for an education, as long as you can fix them!!!
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And, if you are considering expanding this to work for others, having this mutt under your belt is one hell of a credential.
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finding the pups is gonna be the trick as well as deciphering the wiring loom!!!!!!!!!!!!!
one Dimarzio Model G neck spot (had an offer of a donation on this one already)
one Lane Poor Musicman middle spot
one Bartolini ZBS-440 bridge pup
Aguilar OBP-3 preamp
knowledge to put these three together = still waiting on a reply from Mike and he is touring in Europe now.
And, if you are considering expanding this to work for others, having this mutt under your belt is one hell of a credential.
right on Gman!
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welcome Matt, haven't seen you b 4 but that would be a life saver if this project is to kick off as that would be one of the the hardest parts to find save a Dan Armstrong bass pup. Kent is still making them but how close to his fathers specs they are i don't know. there might be suitable replacements for the D/A pup like maybe a TB Plus or one of Kent's pups that are sold through WD Music. maybe one of Fralins new pups might work also. there are three pups to get.
one of your DM pups would be enough. i sent a message to Uwe, Dave and Doc Bill. basically i was told if it was a voluntary basis then it could get an okay to go providing some one like Barkless talks to Mike first before this goes any further and see's what he thinks. it would be ideal to to an make a surprize BUT it would be darn near impossible without his knowledge of the original mutt.
Thanks, man. I've been here since the beginning, but I'm more of a lurker than anything. The guys around here all know more than I do, so I'm usually reluctant to post anything. :)
The Model G is a done deal. Just let me know when and where.
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Mutt list: Any suggestions to modify this list please drop a reply in here!
One body mahogany early Gibby bass or repopped guitar body? Maybe a one or two piece Mahogany blank and or a template?
One neck mahogany Gibby short bass small neck 61 type 30.5" scale. I have found some nice old Mahogany = enough for a laminated neck or through neck build. Might I suggest if we want to do a neck through Mutt or there is enough here to laminate it with Maple for a really strong but lightweight neck:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270272758567&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017
One bone nut pledged Ramone57 one bone nut
One fret board rosewood 30.5 “ scale
One neck pup = Dimarzio Model G pledged one pup Dimarzio Model G Creme Mattk
On Lane Poor mid pup ? This is a Lane Poor musicman pup. I originally thought it was a Dan Armstrong = both are out of production.
One Bartolini bridge pup, specs unknown at this time. Pre-amped yes, ZBS-440 pickup (made by Bartolini - discontinued now, I think) This one might be a possiblity and it has one bid at 9.95 now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260284546127&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016
One Schaller bridge chrome Again might I suggest as this one is listed less than half price right now with the spacer :
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCHALLER-4-STRING-BASS-BRIDGE-GERMANY-ROLLER-SADDLES_W0QQitemZ170259335684QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41407QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
One set tuners = Kluson 538 are hard to find. Grover clover leaf i have a set i can donate = are Schallers better? Maybe able to sub some lighter Schaller closed gear pledged Grover open gear Re-issue Gibson SG tuners Old Puppy
Fret wire = type 6150 or 6105
Hard wire = cloth covered type?
Control cover = used or new. Gibby makes replacements, one is listed on the bay now query "Gibson cover"
Knobs = old Gibby hat types?
Pots = unknown what values to use = need suggestions
One Pick Guard early eb3 type = these can be repopped
One set of strings = unknown what type Mike uses
Mike had his strap screwed onto the Mutt. Guess there is no need for strap locks.
I still haven't heard from Mike or anyone who has been in touch with him.
I am trying to figure out if he had an OPB-3 pre-amp on the Mutt? Anyone know? The Watt interview on gibsonbass.com gave me a lot of clues on the Mutt bass.
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I got yer bone nut right here. ;D it won't be going anywhere til you give the word, old puppy.
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looks like the "make a mutt" idea has died. :sad:
Mike is making a redo of his mutt yipee.............:
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=1062.45
i will consider this "make a mutt" a dead issue on my part. thanks for the pledges. nothing has changed hands so nothing is lost.
you guys rock and thanks for all the good feelings towards Mike.
Dave, Doc or Uwe lock this thread please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just an after thought I wonder if Mike realizes how many friends he has out here in playerland?