The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: ack1961 on October 25, 2009, 12:20:20 PM
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I have a confession: I'm 48 years old, originally from Jersey, and I've never owned a Bon Jovi song until this past Friday.
They're not bad, just not my cup.
My 11 year old son (a drummer) and some friends have started a band, and they've chosen a few Bon Jovi songs to learn together...just to see what they've got. Ironically enough, there was a documentary on those guys on last night. I think I missed the first 10-15 minutes, but I swear I watched over an hour or so (at least it seemed like over an hour)...no mention of a bass player. Even the live shots, you got the drummer, keys, guitarist, vocalist...no bassist in any shots. I read on Wiki that the original bassist Alec John Such left the band in 1994 and he was replaced by Hugh McDonald.
I was interested in checking out the bassist because I'm going to have to learn some of their tunes to help my son practice at home. I mean, the songs seem simple enough, but I just found it weird that in an entire documentary about a band (I almost wrote Hair Band, but didn't) there is no mention of a bassist.
I like these documentaries - even about bands I don't like much; Metallica, Motley Crue, etc...I find them real interesting and the ones that are done well give you a little more insight into the personalities within the bands. The Metallica documentaries are insane.
Anyway, just curious about the absence of any mention, if anyone has a clue.
Thanks,
Steve
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bon jovi is not a band it's a plague. ;) when their original bassist left the bon jovi camp said it was because he was not good enough. i find this laughable and highly suspicious. all of a sudden after ten years he's not good enough anymore? for bon jovi?? :puke:
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(Disclaimer: I know almost nothing about Bon Jovi.)
I read at the time that they were unhappy with his stage performance, and that his replacement is a hired hand, not a band member. That might explain the lack of film footage and mention.
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When the 'Behind the music' episode first aired it mentioned that A.J.S. wanted no part of the documentary and wouldn't be interviewed for it. I've always thought that the whole "wasn't a good enough player" for BJ was a bit of a joke. I mean, it's not like they were all musical genius that were just slumming with a bad bass player. Of course it's a band that I've never liked, so none of it really matters to me.
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I'm not a fan but I'm familiar enough with the story that I'll risk being derisively laughed at by filling in the edges. ;) I may be slightly off on specifics but the general story is:
There's only ever been ONE member of Bon Jovi. From the beginning it was Jon only who was signed to a contract. The other guys have always been his employees. I don't know how that affects Richie Sambora or if he's more of a partner or not (at least he probably gets publishing on his co-writes), but there ya go. AFAIK Alec John Such never did play on the albums. Hugh McDonald was their 'recording' bassist from very early on if not the beginning.
I don't like Springsteen so I certainly wouldn't like Springsteen lite, pretty hair or not. JBJ strikes me pretty much as a tool. A successful tool undeniably, but a tool nonetheless...
No, really. Ask me how I feel! :mrgreen:
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IOW, you're saying he ought to stick to his stellar acting career. ;D
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Hugh has been recording with them since the beginning. As previously mentioned, when Alec's stage performance became a liability, he was unceremoniously dumped and replaced with - guess who? So you asks yourself, why wasn't Mr McDonald in the band to begin with? NJ scuttlebutt has it that while JBJ was thrilled with his playing, his image wasn't right (hair not pouffy enough). What I find odd is that Alec's image was acceptable. I used to see him playing in the clubs back in the late 70s early 80s, with a band called Phantom's Opera and never thought of him as anything special. You probably won't either...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmo0IWDbS6c
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Thanks for the replies - and now that it's been mentioned here, I remember all of the available band members kind of drone on and on about how this band was a corporation...
Yeah, this is a fairly unappealing band. As I said earlier in the thread, I like these documentaries - they kind solidify some of the reasons I dislike of lot of bands. Thanks for clearing up the mystery - I hate the fact that I was even thinking about Bon Jovi's musicians.
OK, not to start a war, but you can't compare JBJ to Bruce Springsteen. Even as reprehensible as Springsteen's music has become, the only thing in common is NJ. Bruce's stuff prior to Born in the USA was deep-rooted and honest, and the E-St. Band was never a hair band. Garry Tallent is also a bassist that I like listening to.
Thanks again.
Steve
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Hugh has been recording with them since the beginning. As previously mentioned, when Alec's stage performance became a liability, he was unceremoniously dumped and replaced with - guess who? So you asks yourself, why wasn't Mr McDonald in the band to begin with? NJ scuttlebutt has it that while JBJ was thrilled with his playing, his image wasn't right (hair not pouffy enough). What I find odd is that Alec's image was acceptable. I used to see him playing in the clubs back in the late 70s early 80s, with a band called Phantom's Opera and never thought of him as anything special. You probably won't either...
I made it to :35 - what do I win?
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I made it to :35 - what do I win?
ummm...a copy on DVD?
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Ugh, I made it to 1:01 and I feel cheated out of a minute of my life >:(
I guess they really do have trailer parks in NJ ;)
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skipped the video... :P
Ok Billy, you mentioned not quite cutting it, "image-wise"... how about the greaest put-down of our "careers"...
Mine, without a doubt, was a spin-off of a spin-off of Thin Lizzy (a band called Stampede, span-off from Wild Horses #5)... the vocalist said, "Man, you can play, but you just ain't got the leather trousers..." ;D
2 lps and they was history... ;) (Good Grief - just checked - they reformed... 26 years later... pass)
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BTW, Hugh is a good player who had a pretty cool resume before Bon Jovi, including Gladys Knight's "Imagination", Ringo Starr's "Ringo the 4th", and Willie Nelson's "Shotgun Willie" - all uncredited, since they came at a time when studio musicians' names were rarely included on album jackets. Even his "signature" lick - the opening groove from "Livin' On A Prayer" - is essentially anonymous.
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AJS was also at least 10 years older than the rest of the band. I'm sure this had something to do with it. Nice SD Curlee bass he's playing in the vid though.
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AJS was also at least 10 years older than the rest of the band. I'm sure this had something to do with it. Nice SD Curlee bass he's playing in the vid though.
Hugh was born in 1950, so it's not like they went for a younger guy when they gave Alec the boot.
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From my March 2001 issue of Classic Rock Magazine:
"And then, just as the "Crossroad" selection proved Bon Jovi would after all, survive the 90's intact, long serving bassist Alec John Such quit the band. Or was pushed. Depending who you speak to. "Shit, man, I lost my virginity in Alec's house" says Tico with a wide grin, "his parents had gone out and our band had thrown this party after a show we'd played and it all happened there. We'd been playing together in bands since the 60's but I probably helped implement getting him out of the band. I actually chose his replacement, Hugh MacDonald. Jon said, "you're the rhythm section, you go get him." But when it came down to it, I'm a hard worker, I respect my craft and I think Alec had got to the point where he wanted to do other things. I understood what Alec wanted and that was the only thing that made it okay for me to lose him."
"Jumped or pushed? A little of both to be honest," says Jon now. "He was burned, he couldn't do it any more, he was 10 years older than us, remember. It got to the point where he was, "I don't want to play on the records, I'll just tour." I'd be like, wait a minute....When your bass player can't play and Dave's having to cover for him and there's a big glass of whiskey on his amp and I have to go by and, you know, "Sorry, didn't mean to knock that over."
"He was the most loyal guy [but] when he quit the business, he really quit the business. He's living out on a houseboat in Corpus Christi, Texas. Sold his house, his guitars....He's back with his wife that actually left him back on the first record. He was offered the chance to appear on VH-1's Behind The Music and didn't want to, turned it down. When he had his estate sale, the press contacted him and all he said was, "I love the new record, I wish them well, that's it for me, I'm out of the business." That's a pretty f***ing loyal thing to do, he could have easily gone the tabloid route, appeared on radio shows, all that stuff, and didn't. He's a good man."
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At this point, I must apologize for having acquired entirely too much knowledge on this subject. What I find most entertaining about JBJ's interviews is the measured, guarded way he responds to questions in general. You never get a real sense of who he is as a person. From the beginning, he has been almost obsessed with not airing any dirty linen in public, so I take anything he says about Alec with a grain of salt. Perhaps the most telling thing is the story of Skid Row, who, in exchange for getting a leg up from Bon Jovi, had to sign over all their publishing to Jon and Richie. (Richie later returned his share to the band) And these guys were friends of theirs!
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I feel ashamed and responsible for starting a thread about such an awful topic.
I should be banned, but I ask for forgiveness.
It's dawned on me that I'm still going to have to learn/play some of their basslines for my son.
Certainly, the punishment does not fit the crime.
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Saying Bon Jovi is like Springsteen is a bit like saying Bread sounded like The Band, they were both folk/country-influenced rock bands yes. And the new Springsteen album ain't bad at all for anybody who cares to listen.
Of all the eighties hair metal AOR bands, Bon Jovi is
- the only one that broke out of the mould,
- reinvented itself to some extent ("keep the Faith" does not sound like "Runaway") and
- reached a global audience that is basically non-rock.
I respect them for that even though I can't tell many BJ power ballads apart, they all sound the same to me. And when I saw them in concert last year, they did a good show (and a great motownish version of Duffy's "Mercy") against the odds of horrible billowing acoustics (JBJ on stage about Frankfurt's Commerzbank Arena: "This place sounds like shit. Is it any better down there?!" It wasn't.). Bit surprised about the venom here against them, they are a commercial rock/pop band, but also a hard-working entity. I get listless listening to a whole album (though "Have a nice day" was a good one), but in my book they deserve to be millionaires for the hook in LOAP alone. That song still gets in my system no matter how many times I've heard it.
LOAP featured in its original a bass run by Alec with which Jon was dissatisfied. So they sent the tape to Hugh who came up with the iconic bass rif (doubled on guitar in the final version). Apparently, Such had truly technical issues as a player. Sambora once said: "You're playing in front of 10.000 people and the guy hits a bum note. First three times that happens, you just feel sorry for him. But after the 10th time you get angry with him." I guess the fact that there is no animosity between Alec and the band today shows that - like any good divorce - the financials were accomodating. Not sure whether JBJ is such a monster either, he stuck to his marriage (with a wife not at all fitting the glamorous rock chick clichee) and with Sambora during the latter's chronic alcohol issues.
I never believed I would one day defend Bon Jovi. :mrgreen: I must be getting old. :-[ :-[ :-[
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"Hughie for Bass" ..... seriously - give the guy the job full-time, for cripes sakes! He's a fine bassist and has only improved their (sometimes bland) sound over the years.
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I've heard them criticized for being a pop band that pretends to be rock. I don't know enough about them or their music to say. Have they ever pretended to be anything other than a band trying to entertain their fans? Nothing wrong with that if you like their music.
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I saw AJS play in a jam session at the Dallas Guitar Show a number of years ago. He was bad. Real bad. I thought it was just because he couldn't play blues. :-\
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I've heard them criticized for being a pop band that pretends to be rock. I don't know enough about them or their music to say. Have they ever pretended to be anything other than a band trying to entertain their fans? Nothing wrong with that if you like their music.
Very true. Their best marketing tactic was to let a junior high school pick all the songs for the New Jersey (?) album. Whichever album had "Living on a Prayer". The band wasn't really sure about that song, but the youngsters jumped on it. Nothing like testing your demographic. Anyone who can make a sustained living in the music industry for more than a few years has my respect, even if I don't like the music. I do like Bon Jovi; they're just not one of my more favorite bands.
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Any band playing stadiums, I'm immediately suspicious of. That goes for the U2s, Nickelbags, REMs and Bon Jovis of this world. Something liked by that many people can't really be liked by me my inner demon tells me. But all fours bands do what they do well.
I prefer to see former stadium (or arena) rock bands when they are no longer playing those venues - past their commercial prime. Nothing more gratifying than seeing a stadium honed act in a 3.000 seater hall. And I look forward to seeing Uriah Heep who once sold out 3.000-5.000 seaters in Germany no sweat (circa mid-seventies) in an intimate 300 people capacity club in December.
When U2 are playing clubs in twenty years from now, I might even see them!
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I don't mind admitting that I liked "Slippery when Wet" at the time, it was probably a bit pop, but hey it helped a lot of other bands get noticed too.......
I'd certainly concur with the 3000 seat venue line too, I was very fortunate in my younger days to a lot of great bands ( Kiss, Rush, B.O.C. Nazareth, Slade, Robin Trower, etc) at Seattle's Paramont Theater, a wonderful old 3000 seat venue with wonderful acoustics........the '70's were good!
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I'd certainly concur with the 3000 seat venue line too, I was very fortunate in my younger days to a lot of great bands ( Kiss, Rush, B.O.C. Nazareth, Slade, Robin Trower, etc) at Seattle's Paramont Theater, a wonderful old 3000 seat venue with wonderful acoustics........the '70's were good!
Those were always my favorite type of venues. In Chicago, we had the Auditorium Theater, The Civic Opera House (for a while) and The Riviera Theater. I saw some great shows at those places:
Kansas/Mott The Hoople
Yes/ELP
Flash/Wishbone Ash
Jethro Tull
Angel City/The Kinks
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FWIW: While on studio records I find his "let's put some passion in every word"-singing grating after a while, the little garden state wop (George, another one for your low pc collection of my legendary quotes!) does more than alright live, his voice has aged well, even on the helium-inspired eighties chorusses. And Sambora played very gutsy at the concert I saw, as if to validate his position in the band. What was also interesting is that the drummer had almost as much "air time" on the large screens as the namegiver of the band himself. And that drummer is not only entertaining to watch, he's outright good as a drummer. I probably enjoyed him the most all evening.
Yes, of course, I was there because Edith wanted to go ("You wouldn't be going to Bon Jovi with me, would you?" is one of those questions you can only sensibly answer in the affirmative if you love someone with a long memory!), what other reasons are there to go to a Bon Jovi concert? It's for the same reason Edith can always "invite" me to whatever new flic is graced with the presence, charm, splendid looks and, errrm, acting talent of Herr Keanu Reeves. ;D :mrgreen: ;) Well, at least he plays bass.
(http://images.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/6608/bass2.gif&usg=AFQjCNERPLriNBtNbzZwjH8R9Wg0FOzaeA)
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Any band playing stadiums, I'm immediately suspicious of. That goes for the U2s, Nickelbags, REMs and Bon Jovis of this world. Something liked by that many people can't really be liked by me my inner demon tells me. But all fours bands do what they do well.
I prefer to see former stadium (or arena) rock bands when they are no longer playing those venues - past their commercial prime. Nothing more gratifying than seeing a stadium honed act in a 3.000 seater hall. And I look forward to seeing Uriah Heep who once sold out 3.000-5.000 seaters in Germany no sweat (circa mid-seventies) in an intimate 300 people capacity club in December.
When U2 are playing clubs in twenty years from now, I might even see them!
I'd love to see Uriah Heep! Golden Earring has played quite a few acoustic shows in Europe in smaller venues, haven't they?
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I've got a Hypstrz CD, which is a board tape release from back about 1979. In the cover is a club calendar from Minneapolis that shows a U2 playing at a club there on a Thursday night.
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And I look forward to seeing Uriah Heep who once sold out 3.000-5.000 seaters in Germany no sweat (circa mid-seventies) in an intimate 300 people capacity club in December.
Just to be clear...you're seeing Mick Box from Uriah Heep. If the original members of Heep were still with us, 300 seaters wouldn't be happening.
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An intimate 300 capacity club is much too small to hold Bono's ego.
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Just to be clear...you're seeing Mick Box from Uriah Heep. If the original members of Heep were still with us, 300 seaters wouldn't be happening.
Here's one from a quaint little toilet in my hometown, back in '92-ish. Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/lowend1/bigtime.jpg)
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Here's one from a quaint little toilet in my hometown, back in '92-ish. Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
Wow. that's depressing. I was big into Foghat...I still think Tony Stevens was a great bassist.
I may be alone in that thought, but what else is new.
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Wow. that's depressing. I was big into Foghat...I still think Tony Stevens was a great bassist.
I may be alone in that thought, but what else is new.
They always had good players. I really like the stuff (producer) Nick Jameson laid down on the "Fool For The City" album. Great live band, too.
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Wow. that's depressing. I was big into Foghat...I still think Tony Stevens was a great bassist.
I may be alone in that thought, but what else is new.
Tony Stevens was great. Nick Jameson (has gone on to do a ton of animated voiceover work) was my favorite - he was also on In The Mood For Something Rude. I didn't really think Craig MacGregor was all that distinctive. When I saw them live, they were good, but not great. Kenny Aaronson was with them then.
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Tony Stevens was great. Nick Jameson (has gone on to do a ton of animated voiceover work) was my favorite - he was also on In The Mood For Something Rude. I didn't really think Craig MacGregor was all that distinctive. When I saw them live, they were good, but not great. Kenny Aaronson was with them then.
Pretty funny that the guy who played bass on "Slow Ride" also plays the president of Russia on "24".
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I don't mind admitting that I liked "Slippery when Wet" at the time, it was probably a bit pop, but hey it helped a lot of other bands get noticed too.......
I'd certainly concur with the 3000 seat venue line too, I was very fortunate in my younger days to a lot of great bands ( Kiss, Rush, B.O.C. Nazareth, Slade, Robin Trower, etc) at Seattle's Paramont Theater, a wonderful old 3000 seat venue with wonderful acoustics........the '70's were good!
Austin had places like the old Palmer Auditorium and City Coliseum that were fantastic places to see bands. I was lucky enough to see Kiss and SRV in the former and Elvis Costello, The Fabulous Thunderbirds and The Clash in the latter. (back in 1982 - 84)
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Ack1961: Of course its only Mick Box "and the other four". But one of the other four (Bolder) has been with the band for 30 years, two others for more than 20 (Lanzon and Shaw) and only the drummer who replaced Kerslake recently (for health reasons) is a new kid. Yes, Uriah Heep is very much the legacy of Ken Hensley's songs and the current line up (I've seen them three times over the years, often as opening act for role models Deep Purple) still chugs along mostly on that material (though the last studio album was very good and forceful, "Wake the Sleeper"), but as a performing band they have credibility. Shaw can sing both Byron and Lawton material equally well, yet has his own identity, Lanzon is technically a better player than Hensley (chiefy a songwriter) ever was on the organ (Lanzon is beginning to sound more and more like Jon Lord) and Bolder is de facto the bands lead bassist as he plays over, under and in the middle of the band's material live. He has a solo spot in July Morning where he actually solos over the bands backing - excellent and a welcome change from all those "I show my chops"-bass solos.
As regards Heep's commercial decline - that set in as early as after Sweet Freedom. Wonderworld was a poor seller already, Return to Fantasy was without Thain's warm melodic bass playing (Hensley: "After Gary had to leave, we made it sound like Heep with John Wetton, but the chemistry was gone, it didn't feel like Heep anymore ...") and High and Mighty saw a band on the wane. Lawton as a successor to Byron was a great singer and probably less "seventies" than Byron, but it was already diminishing returns for Heep by then, their "just like Deep Purple, only with hummable chorusses"-Euro heavy rock had run its course. Let's not even talk about John Sloman whose manifold inabilities had Hensley set sail for, eventually, Blackfoot. The ex-Trapeze guy they then had was a great singer (probably my favorite Heep singer), but not a great frontman nor did he like playing live much so after another three abums he went off and Bernie Shaw came in. Which is the way it has been for a long time now. With Byron and Thain dead, Kerslake unfit to play and Hensley lost somewhere between St. Louis and reborn Christianity, the classic line up of Heep from the Demons and Wizards to Wonderworld-era (before that bassists and drummers had come and gone) will not be resurrected in any case, but what you hear from today's line up is still firmly Heep, they carry the spirit. And those harmony-drenched chorusses that always made them more appealing to girls than Deep Purple are still there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyHwsuhAItk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRXzhsn_yM&feature=PlayList&p=2CB91F65C4A64E37&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=48
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I reviewed some of the first of the "comeback" albums. My only real complaint was when they tried to sound like the old days. They were a band that was pretty good at re-inventing a sound, and being interesting. I got a later years compilation from someone (I think it was someone from the old Dudepit) that I really liked. There was a '90s song, "Fear of Falling" that was great, and made me rethink my old thoughts about Trevor Bolder on bass.
I also had Siogo and Vertical Smiles from Blackfoot during the Hensley times. Siogo was good, but very produced. Vertical Smiles left me wanting, and their version of "Morning Dew" (an old high school band favorite from Jeff Beck) was lackluster. I've never heard anything from Virtual Faith, the last band that I knew of that included Hensley.
Gary Thain, as some of you may know, was probably the biggest influence on my style, and I didn't even realize it for years. "Sweet Lorraine" says just about everything you need to know about how great he was, and how bass could drive a song. I covered "Return To Mystery" in a band, but the band just wasn't the same so soon after Thain's demise.
BTW- I guess there's a compilation CD of Thain's work over the years in the works.
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Gary Thain, as some of you may know, was probably the biggest influence on my style, and I didn't even realize it for years. "Sweet Lorraine" says just about everything you need to know about how great he was, and how bass could drive a song.
A big +1.
I had much the same "light bulb moment" with Gary Thain's playing - they don't make 'em like that anymore.
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the little garden state wop (George, another one for your low pc collection of my legendary quotes!)
I guess that would make me the Golden State Wop! (Birth father being first generation NY Italian ;))
I always liked Sambora's playing. Truth be told I think the band is pretty good but the overabundance of cheesy keyboards (and said player's BAD extensions back in the day) always ruined it for me. There are a few songs I like OK, but JBJ's voice hasn't aged well to my ears. What was once a sometimes annoying nasal quality there has grown into the piercing adenoid from hell where my ears are involved...
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I also had Siogo and Vertical Smiles from Blackfoot during the Hensley times. Siogo was good, but very produced. Vertical Smiles left me wanting, and their version of "Morning Dew" (an old high school band favorite from Jeff Beck) was lackluster.
"Vertical Smiles" has possibly one of the worst album covers of all time!
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Ack1961: Of course its only Mick Box "and the other four". But one of the other four (Bolder) has been with the band for 30 years, two others for more than 20 (Lanzon and Shaw) and only the drummer who replaced Kerslake recently (for health reasons) is a new kid. Yes, Uriah Heep is very much the legacy of Ken Hensley's songs and the current line up (I've seen them three times over the years, often as opening act for role models Deep Purple) still chugs along mostly on that material (though the last studio album was very good and forceful, "Wake the Sleeper"), but as a performing band they have credibility. Shaw can sing both Byron and Lawton material equally well, yet has his own identity, Lanzon is technically a better player than Hensley (chiefy a songwriter) ever was on the organ (Lanzon is beginning to sound more and more like Jon Lord) and Bolder is de facto the bands lead bassist as he plays over, under and in the middle of the band's material live. He has a solo spot in July Morning where he actually solos over the bands backing - excellent and a welcome change from all those "I show my chops"-bass solos.
As regards Heep's commercial decline - that set in as early as after Sweet Freedom. Wonderworld was a poor seller already, Return to Fantasy was without Thain's warm melodic bass playing (Hensley: "After Gary had to leave, we made it sound like Heep with John Wetton, but the chemistry was gone, it didn't feel like Heep anymore ...") and High and Mighty saw a band on the wane. Lawton as a successor to Byron was a great singer and probably less "seventies" than Byron, but it was already diminishing returns for Heep by then, their "just like Deep Purple, only with hummable chorusses"-Euro heavy rock had run its course. Let's not even talk about John Sloman whose manifold inabilities had Hensley set sail for, eventually, Blackfoot. The ex-Trapeze guy they then had was a great singer (probably my favorite Heep singer), but not a great frontman nor did he like playing live much so after another three abums he went off and Bernie Shaw came in. Which is the way it has been for a long time now. With Byron and Thain dead, Kerslake unfit to play and Hensley lost somewhere between St. Louis and reborn Christianity, the classic line up of Heep from the Demons and Wizards to Wonderworld-era (before that bassists and drummers had come and gone) will not be resurrected in any case, but what you hear from today's line up is still firmly Heep, they carry the spirit. And those harmony-drenched chorusses that always made them more appealing to girls than Deep Purple are still there.
Uwe: Good call on recent Heep...I was a huge fan (UH was my first "favorite band"), but I basically threw in the towel after Return to Fantasy. High & Mighty and everything after that was missing something for me - I'll give the new Heep a shot. My comment was just based on fact that Mick Box was such a small part of what drove Heep's sound for me, and with Byron, Kerslake & Thain dead, and Hensley turning into a Blackfoot Indian, it just seemed odd to see the Uriah Heep name tagged against folks who didn't drive the Heep sound the way it was back in to 60's and 70's. Demons, Salisbury, Magicians and Wonderworld are truly some of the best albums I've ever heard. Also, Hensley's "Proud Words..." is another fine album.
On the up-side....at least this dreadful Bon Jovi thread morphed into something more palatable.
Cheers.
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Box is no Blackmore, Page or Iommi. I can't remember a single memorable solo from him (not a bad one either, he just melts into the music). But he's realized that early on and decided to be "just" a functional band member (and the teddy bear of the audience) at a time when guitar heroes reigned supreme leaving the spotlight to Byron and Hensley. It did Heep no disfavors at the time because with Byron and Hensley they already had enough divas on stage.
Moreover, Box's song serving rhythm guitar chugging let all the Heep bassists have considerable freedom, Thain and Bolder (admittedly, it took a while with him to liberate himself from how he had played more constrained with the Spiders from Mars) being the two bassists to use that to the best advantage of the group (Wetton to me sounded at times plainly bored with Heep, his heart wasn't in it and his playing was a lot more angular than Thain's whose subtle groove was one of a kind). Oh, Bob Daisley was great too, unfair to forget him, but money lured him back to Ozzy. If you hear Heep live today, Bolder solos more improvised runs on his worn Fender than Box plays leads on his Paula - with a lot of riffs powered by Lanzon's organ.
Hey, and Lee Kerslake is still alive, just unfit to tour due to his heart condition. :mrgreen:
And there is some inner justification to a Bon Jovi thread becoming a Uriah Heep one. Where most American hard rock bands patterned themselves after Led Zeppelin (even Kiss riffs sound like Zeppelin throwaways at times), I can hear traces of Deep Purple and Uriah Heep in early Bon Jovi.
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" I can't remember a single memorable solo from him "
Gotta call ya on this one Herr Moderator, tho in general I'd agree.......But Box's solo during "Stealin" is good, if simple. probably his best.
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I'm sure it is, I even remember it now, hummable and ecstatic, but not in the guitar tour de force league of say Blackmore on Highway Star or Page in the Whole Lotta Love-breaks. Frenzied inspiration wasn't really Box' thing.
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Yup,
Sometimes less notes = more.
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Wow. that's depressing. I was big into Foghat...I still think Tony Stevens was a great bassist.
I may be alone in that thought, but what else is new.
I liked Foghat a lot, Stevens included, great band imho.
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I can remember staring at that photo of Gary Thain in the booklet inside of Uriah Heep Live. I wanted a Jazz Bass just like his for a long time! (I've settled for a '66 with dots and binding)
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Yeah, that's a cool pic! I really like Gary Thain, but I'm just a Gibson girl ;)
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I also used to love to listen to Uriah Heep Live...still have it on CD...loved everything but the tone of Mick Box's guitar--to me it sounds as if it is constantly filtered through a wah pedal that's on, but not being manipulated by the user, if that makes sense.
The vocals are awesome, as is the bass playing.
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He used that wah as a treble booster - almost all Brit guitarists did that (or used a real treble booster) at the time, it was the en vogue thing to do. Iommi and Schenker did the same thing.
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Rudolph Schenker kept the wah pedal on at all times, backing off the treble to give him that rhythm guitar sound of his.
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And the little bruddah boosted the highs with it.
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I couldn't care less one way or the other about Bon Jovi, having said that I don't think they are that bad of a band and the original bass player was OK in the video Phantom Opera or whatever there name was, it's such scripted music the only thing you could do would be to play the right notes for the right length of time, and that he did. It's very hard to tell how good a player is or isn't playing that crap.
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Anybody heard the new album? Pretty somber and lean for Bon Jovi standards with definite U2 influences.
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It was a "cry-baby" that Michael Shencker used to get his lead sound, wasn't it...?
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I couldn't care less one way or the other about Bon Jovi, having said that I don't think they are that bad of a band and the original bass player was OK in the video Phantom Opera or whatever there name was, it's such scripted music the only thing you could do would be to play the right notes for the right length of time, and that he did. It's very hard to tell how good a player is or isn't playing that crap.
After reading the entire thread I have to ask how the hell Michael Anthony was never asked to join Bon Jovi? ;D ;)
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He never got out of the bottle... :mrgreen: (ref to an old quote by Roth)
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Yep I got ya ;)
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To the defense of Herr Anthony, he plays some real nice melodic stuff on the new Chickenfoot album which in many ways sounds like Montrose thirty years later. I only heard Montrose's debut album recently (it's out as a remaster) and was baffled how much their sound preceded what Van Halen did a few years later. I was totally unaware of that. Now Hagar joining Van Halen after Roth's departure makes perfect sense, he was joining the band that was so much influenced by his first band. Even Roth's singing style on the early Van Halen albums nods into the direction of Hagar's singing on that first Montrose album except that Roth didn't have the range and had issues pitching.
I basically only knew Montrose for one incredibly arrogant remark by Ronnie Montrose who when asked in the nineteis why Montrose split said: "We basically split because Sammy wanted to play guitar on stage with me. Sammy is a great singer, but you know how he plays guitar. There was no way I would stand on the same stage with him playing guitar."
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I've seen Kiss twice (1984 Lick It Up, and the supposed "Fairwell Tour 1973 - 2000") and I recall vividly before they came out for their first song (Creatures Of The Night and Detroit Rock City) that the last song playing on the sound system was Montrose Bad Motor Scooter. I know you've seen Kiss more than I have Uwe. Has this always been the case? Also I think Ted Templeman was responsible for production on the debut Montrose LP.
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I've only seen Kiss once and that was comparatively recently! No idea what they played when the curtains came down, it might have even been We Are One from Psycho Circus.
But that first Montrose album is indeed Templeman produced and it is sonically timeless. That's another connection with Van Halen of course. I always thought that Templeman came out of nowhere with that first VH album (which is a timeless production as well). Funnily enough not all his work is like that. He also produced the Aerosmith reunion album Done with the mirrors which was an unremarkable affair compared to the old Eddie Kramer productions.
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How could you have missed that one, Uwe... a rock solid classic... I followed RM from Edgar Winter ("They Only Come Out At Night" - that in itself a stunning debut [many of us know "Frankenstein" but how many knew it was Montrose on the guitar], if you ignore some mandolin on a Van the Man LP) and onwards... I don't have everything he's released, but I have a fair chunk of it...
I remember seeing Gamma at The Hammy O and Mr Montrose played this jazzy stand-alone solo which left many of us just stunned, silent, and he called out, "Well, what do ya think...?" and we all just erupted...
Ronnie and Sammy...? Two (egos) into one don't go... ;D
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I started playing songs from both the Montrose and They Only Come Out At Night albums back in the 80's. Still have and play those albums. Uwe is correct, timeless.
We used to do a fun version of the Montrose version of Good Rockin.
Live and rough recording. Singer gets distracted at the end ;)
http://www.frog-host.net/music/Good%20Rockin%27.mp3
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Oh man Montrose ! I have not heard anything in years I gotta go out and get that CD with Space Station #5
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I've had that first Montrose as vinyl at least 3 times, once on cassette and disc..............
Yeah, I like it!
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But that first Montrose album is indeed Templeman produced and it is sonically timeless. That's another connection with Van Halen of course. I always thought that Templeman came out of nowhere with that first VH album (which is a timeless production as well)
It's not simply Ted's production, but the engineering of Don Landee that ties the two albums together. Ronnie has commented in the past that they were the kings of layering frequencies. Ted/Don would say that they needed something in a particular freq band, and a guitar, keyboard or what have you would be dropped in to fill the perceived spot. The result was a huge sound on all fronts. Ronnie also said in at least one interview that Montrose was built to be the last word in heavy rock - the American Led Zeppelin, as he called it. In another interview he said that he used to cringe listening to the playing on that album because he had considered it to be so raw and unrefined compared to his later work. Only now does he accept it for what it is - four young guys playing at the top of their game at that point in time. We should all be able to create something so raw and unrefined.
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It was the same team on the first Van Halen too, Billy...
In a Kerrang poll years ago, it placed #2 in a top 100 (may have been 500) with LZ#4 in the top slot...
That works for me, Bret...! used to play a few of theires too...
Just had a look at my CD's... I've misslaid my Edgar CD... :sad:
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I read in Rolling Stone a while back how Edgar Winter came up with the title to that classic album. He was out and about when he was younger and overheard a kid remark about his look. The kids mom said "He's an albino, they only come out at night".
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Oh Man ! I saw The Edgar Winter Group with Rick Derringer in 1973 at the Rochester War Memorial ! I stole all the letters off the marque, sliced my finger open real good ! The letters sat in a box in my parents basement till about 12 years ago !
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Oh Man ! I saw The Edgar Winter Group with Rick Derringer in 1973 at the Rochester War Memorial ! I stole all the letters off the marque, sliced my finger open real good ! The letters sat in a box in my parents basement till about 12 years ago !
Whoa! I hadn't thought about that in a long time, I saw them here in Seattle on that tour.......It was like my first date, parents had to drive me, I was too young :sad:
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That was a while back! Back in '73 I was in 7th grade and still jamming to Frankenstein. I think it was around that time I discovered I could play with my tackle! ;D
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Yea my folks dropped me off to :sad: I have to say I loved every second of it !
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First time I heard Fankenstein was when a small circus/fair visited the small country town I grew up in up in the Norther Territory (Top end- Crocodile Dundee country, more out back than outback :)) back in 74. I was 10. They played that and Skyhooks -Horror Movie endlessly really loud. I was impressed.
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i saw edgar winter and wee ronnie open for humble pie. edgar and company were good but humble pie crushed them.
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I never got to see them... :sad:
In '73 a bunch of us kids from school were taken to Wembley to see Slade by a friends dad... support act was Home, featuring Laurie Wisefield and a bass player that made his name with some Australian band or other... :P (Damn, had to play my ace...) Slade were pretty good; Dave Hill even had real hair... ;D
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Montrose vs Van Halen:
Both a 4 piece named after the guitar player
Both from SoCal
Both with blond haired lead singers
Both produced/engineered by Templeman/Landee
Both on WB Records
Hmmm..... ;)
Someone just gave me a copy of the first (great) album. Love it, but the drums sound like shit. Oh and Uwe, that production team also did the Doobie Bros before VH.
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Gettin' back to Bon Jovi, I just got an email from Ticketmaster sellin' best tix to see 'em for $135 here in L.A.
Gotta give 'em the respect they deserve. Dig the bass on Keep The Faith!
Take a hot young chick to see 'em & you're guaranteed a night of lovemaking. heh
I took a hottie to see 'em in '89 (Yikes! 20 years ago??!!??!!) at The ROXY on the Strip & thot it was SO cool that altho they played a big amphitheater show that night in full Glam Metal regalia they played this 400 seater show in black t-shirts & jeans & played whatever they wanted which included some ANIMALS covers -YES!-& some songs they wrote for Cher that she had HUGE hits with (I forget their names at the mo)
I used to flip back an' forth from Letterman to Leno & I was once amazed to see Bon Jovi performing on both shows one night!!
That says a lot about 'em too
They've sold over 100 MILLION units!
Deeeeeeeeeeeep respect from this ol' man.
Alec used to drop in my airbrush shop on Sunset & I'd score him crank & he'd go on & on with cool stories & worried about the band catchin' him cuz they'd kick him out.
Guess they caught him. :D
Oh well. He had a good RUN!!!!!!!!!
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Montrose vs Van Halen:
Both a 4 piece named after the guitar player
Both from SoCal
Both with blond haired lead singers
Both produced/engineered by Templeman/Landee
Both on WB Records
Hmmm..... ;)
Someone just gave me a copy of the first (great) album. Love it, but the drums sound like shit. Oh and Uwe, that production team also did the Doobie Bros before VH.
Montrose was more of a SF band, no?
"There's a red bridge that arcs the bay" - Bad Motor Scooter
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Isn't that where it "never rains", or is it just that I "Listen To The Music" too much... ;D
Loved the Doobies, but "Fault Line" was where the love faded... "I Cheat The Hangman" (PLAY IT LOUD!) and "Clear As The Driven Snow" always stood out for me as faves, as did Tiran Porter's bass playing... never got to see them live; mostly an EB player...?
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Let's not even talk about John Sloman whose manifold inabilities had Hensley set sail for, eventually, Blackfoot.
Inabilities? The guy is a great musician and a singer, just a wrong singer for Heep as he admitted too. Lone Star's "Firing On All Six" is a much better showcase for his talents, not to mention his 2003 solo album "Dark Matter".
http://www.uberrock.co.uk/interviews/59-august-interviews/1260-john-sloman-interview-exclusive.html (http://www.uberrock.co.uk/interviews/59-august-interviews/1260-john-sloman-interview-exclusive.html)
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Sloman was horrible with Gary Moore too. He made you wince.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAl_kxpjTNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaH_hyRuYM
He might be a good musiscian, but he's no lead singer for a band at all, ill at ease and strutting all the time with a voice that transports little emotion. He's not in the league the other Heep singers were, i.e. Byron, Lawton, Goalby and Shaw.
Byron:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUnPb1CEMz8
Lawton & Shaw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FozXMo164L8
Goalby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vNESO1HGfc
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Saw him with Moore and with Lone Star - I thought he was quite good then... Lone Star (a 70's Welsh band and predating the country outfit) also featured "Tonka" Chapman...
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He's the archtypical hard rock singer for people who don't like hard rock. At best, he sounds like a second rate Glenn Hughes when he hits the high registers. Bit of a John Sykes deadringer in looks whose stage demeanor I found equally unpleasant.
He was hired both by Heep and Moore because he looked the part, but he had no substance then to back it up. I haven't heard his more recent solo albums, is his singing less affected today than it was?
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I guess he had to think about it for over 3 years before he decided to comment. ;)
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I guess he had to think about it for over 3 years before he decided to comment. ;)
Good point but I only saw the thread three days ago.
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I haven't heard his more recent solo albums, is his singing less affected today than it was?
Yes it is. Matured. I agree about his of early antics and over the top histrionics but I find it a bit shame that it's all he is always remembered for, like the short stints with Heep were the only things he ever did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFcJm_fnsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFcJm_fnsk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-9y5wDJb5g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-9y5wDJb5g)
His 2007 released acoustic album "13 Storeys" has sound samples here:
http://johnsloman.net/1-2-3-music-store/process.php?pname=ShowAlbumDetailsProcess-Start&CategoryID=CategoryID&AlbumID=3 (http://johnsloman.net/1-2-3-music-store/process.php?pname=ShowAlbumDetailsProcess-Start&CategoryID=CategoryID&AlbumID=3)
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How could you have missed that one, Uwe... a rock solid classic... I followed RM from Edgar Winter ("They Only Come Out At Night" - that in itself a stunning debut [many of us know "Frankenstein" but how many knew it was Montrose on the guitar], if you ignore some mandolin on a Van the Man LP) and onwards... I don't have everything he's released, but I have a fair chunk of it...
I remember seeing Gamma at The Hammy O and Mr Montrose played this jazzy stand-alone solo which left many of us just stunned, silent, and he called out, "Well, what do ya think...?" and we all just erupted...
Ronnie and Sammy...? Two (egos) into one don't go... ;D
Cool, I never knew RM played on that. I always liked "We All Had a Real Good Time". What a hoot!
On the Heep subject, I was lucky enough to see them for free in Central Park in '75. Schaeffer Beer used to sponsor concerts there. You didn't have to buy a ticket to see and hear. All you had to do was park yourself on one of the huge rocks a little uphill outside of the fenced area and dig it. Another good show I saw this way was Poco... 8)
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Yes it is. Matured. I agree about his of early antics and over the top histrionics but I find it a bit shame that it's all he is always remembered for, like the short stints with Heep were the only things he ever did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFcJm_fnsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFcJm_fnsk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-9y5wDJb5g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-9y5wDJb5g)
His 2007 released acoustic album "13 Storeys" has sound samples here:
http://johnsloman.net/1-2-3-music-store/process.php?pname=ShowAlbumDetailsProcess-Start&CategoryID=CategoryID&AlbumID=3 (http://johnsloman.net/1-2-3-music-store/process.php?pname=ShowAlbumDetailsProcess-Start&CategoryID=CategoryID&AlbumID=3)
Ah, he's been listening to a bit of David Coverdale! :mrgreen:
But I'll give him probation, especially the acoustric track is the nicest I have heard of him.
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Ah, he's been listening to a bit of David Coverdale! :mrgreen:
But I'll give him probation, especially the acoustric track is the nicest I have heard of him.
Some of the songs and singing on "Dark Matter" remind me of Jeff Buckley. Both "13 Storeys" and "Reclamation" continue the style heard on "Fool's Gold".
Coverdale should listen to modern day Sloman or Plant and stop his classic rock nonsense and make a soulful blues album. Featuring no Slash or any other hotshot guitarist :mrgreen:
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I agree completely. Get a haircut, sing in a lower register and spoil us with his rich baritone. More Tom Jones than Robert Plant.
It's funny, but that is pretty much what Bob Edmands wrote when he reviewed the first Coverdale solo album in 1976, he surmised: "If he could dump his Robert Plant wig and get a slick funky producer, he might even be on to something because he has a voice which deserves to be heard".
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I agree completely. Get a haircut, sing in a lower register and spoil us with his rich baritone. More Tom Jones than Robert Plant.
It's funny, but that is pretty much what Bob Edmands wrote when he reviewed the first Coverdale solo album in 1976, he surmised: "If he could dump his Robert Plant wig and get a slick funky producer, he might even be on to something because he has a voice which deserves to be heard".
If he could have worked with Lowell George like Robert Palmer did and have the Feat guys (or The Meters!) back him up... Nothing against the Newman/Spenner rhythm section on "Northwinds", very funky.
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Yup. Brit funky! Even the Murray/Marsden/Paice era WS could not better on (or even reach) the original Blindman version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsjdA1BNKlg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gjCUfVjsKM
I'm still hoping for his realization of the error of his current ways. Into the Light was such a promising album and the haircut (and color!) looked good too. Then he became blond again and all regressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0SmiKQtgE
It eludes me why he retains the Whitesnake moniker and corresponding era look to a dwindling audience when he could be making shitloads of money singing Sitting on the Dock of the Bay to an aging baby boomer audience. Rick Rubin to the rescue!!!
BTW: David Coverdale played with Ritchie Blackmore once in that band called Gillan I believe. I didn't want to leave that unmentioned.
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Uwe, you may be shocked but I'm in compete agreement with you on Coverdale re Love is Blind. I was unfamiliar with it and when you posted it recently I surmised it was new and thought, wow, Coverdale's choosing to grow older gracefully. And he sounds great! Then I saw the date... Oh well.
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I'm never shocked when you agree with me! Honored more like.
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Vielen Dank mein Freund.
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Just parted with your beloved 86 TB II at my luthier, a rewinding of le pup seems in order. He was very much taken with it.
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It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts once the pickup is back to its former glory.
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I always liked that sound, it was different to all my other TBirds, a bit brittle, almost metallic and scooped (I sensed that it might not be the "original" sound of that sidewinder), but it gave that bass a lot of piano rrrring, Fender P'ish even. In hindsight, however, that was probably because something was wrong with the pup. By now output has decayed so much, I had to do something.
I read an interview with Dusty Hill some years back where he talked about his beloved old Telecaster bass whose pup sounded like no other. He had boutique replicas made from it with period-correct pups, but they sounded nothing like his bass so he sent them all back. The luthier in desperation finally asked if he could look at Dusty's original pup to ascertain whether it has been customized. It wasn't, it just had a defect in the windings leading to additional distortion so consequently all the replica pups were wound with that defect too.