The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Happy Face on July 14, 2011, 07:07:01 PM
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I have been trying to find a post on the old Dude Pit about a legendary session bass player. The comment was something like "He sounds like an old Chrysler 300 starting up on a winter day, all clangy and nosiy, but it fits right in the mix."
Or something to that effect
Do any of you oldtimers remember that?
Only out of curiousity, really... I'm not being criticized for being a sloppy player... really!
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I just remember the distinctive sound of the starter gear drives on the old Chrysler corp V8 motors. You could always tell them apart from GM & Ford.
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Could it be Chuck Rainey?
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The post was about recording tips. The poster suggested that in addition to going direct, you should use another mic to record breathing, string scratches, fret noise - all the things that we are used to hearing when we play, and are not there when you plug into the board. Then he gave this example and I think Dave is right, he was talking about Chuck Rainey.
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I brought up Chuck Rainey because I do remember reading somewhere that he made plenty of recording noise but everything fit just great when it was all mixed down.
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FOUND IT!
http://pluto.spaceports.com/~fishbake/RA/kib.htm
The quote you remembered was "Good bass players' tracks always sound noisy when soloed. Chuck Rainey's tracks sound like someone's working on a Buick in the background. But plug it into the mix, and the magic is there."
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Thanks for the link Ilan - cool article! Might have to try that next time I hop in the studio!
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Chrysler 300, Buick, no big difference.
(Dave ducks for cover)
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Many Thanks ilan. That's great!!
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Wow, that's really helpful to me just now, we're going to record a new demo starting in a couple weeks - this is wonderful knowledge, can't wait to apply it! Many thanks for posting it Ilan :)
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"Good bass players' tracks always sound noisy when soloed. Chuck Rainey's tracks sound like someone's working on a Buick in the background. But plug it into the mix, and the magic is there."
I could not agree more with that quote!
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I have learned a lot about getting good bass sounds working with Chuck - and other artists - and can share a little applied wisdom.
First off, I'm a big fan of Fender basses.
Nooooooooo ;D
(I kid)
I personally try to let the amp mic drive the sound, with DI for some low lows if necessary, and a bit
of the string mike to get a little "metal" in the pops, without having to eq the snot out of the signal.
The string noises, finger scrunches, pick noise, grunting, etc, that the mic picks up are priceless in
terms of putting some humanity in the track. No compression on that mic, by the way.
Spend some time with that amp mic. Get it right. No EQ...just move the mic around till the sound is
as good as you can possibly get...WITH THE TRACK. At least the drums. If it won't sit in the mix as
tracked, then you're going to fight the bass sound till the bitter end.
Guess its easy to take for granted all of the "acoustic" artifacts that come from an electric instrument. Never would have thought to try mic'ing the strings. Cool tips 8)
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Micing the strings? You gotta be kidding.
In a loud rock band you really don't hear the strings ring in the room. No matter how good your ears are. Recording them and adding them to the mix seems silly to me.
Adding noise does not make you a better bass player. Good bass playing does.
And yes good bass players can sound pretty noisy when soloed.
But I don't believe a mediocre bass player's recording will improve when you add any noise.
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Hmm, I didnt take it as micing the strings, that does seem weird. I make enough clicks and snaps when I play my favourite style of playing that no micing of strings is necessary anyway. Very little of it comes out in the DI strip though, mostly it gets picked up by the amp mic/s. However if a song needs a more astute sound then obviously the style of attack on the strings etc is modified and becomes less rattley.
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It sounded like this guy leans heavily on the amp mic, but he also grabs a DI and a feed from a condenser mic placed around the neck pickup/fretboard (with the bassist in an iso closet). Most of his sound comes from a blend of amp mic and DI, but he uses the condenser to add a slight bit of the string sounds that the bassist would typically hear as he's playing. I think his point was that the bassist's overall "perceived sound" includes those subtle artifacts (that extra zing coming from the string noise, etc..), and by blending that in he can recreate that perceived sound once the bassist is done tracking and back in the control room.
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The best luck I have with recording bass is to put the player in the room with his amp for a few
minutes to get his sound. Then I mic his amp...put him in an iso closet, and mic his strings with a
condenser mic to get the acoustic attack. Putt the mic on the strings, right at the pickup end of the
fretboard. Blend a LITTLE of this in with the direct / cabinet sound.
I do believe that is what he said Bret
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I think his point was that the bassist's overall "perceived sound" includes those subtle artifacts (that extra zing coming from the string noise, etc..), and by blending that in he can recreate that perceived sound once the bassist is done tracking and back in the control room.
Almost like the aim is to satisfy the bass player enough so he can mix in a good sound....
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the violent femmes like the zing and other natural sounds that are a result of playing acoustic instruments. they keep all those sounds audible.
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That's one of the characteristics of OVER-engineering: removing the noises that come with real life. It's a symptom of what makes so much music suck.
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I do believe that is what he said Bret
Yep you are right mate, I stand corrected. I guess I read through it a little to quickly. :)