The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: godofthunder on March 08, 2024, 08:52:20 AM

Title: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: godofthunder on March 08, 2024, 08:52:20 AM: More nonsense from the gang that couldn't shoot straight.
While the new colors are great they just couldn't leave well enough alone when they shifted manufacturing from Indonesia to China. They altered the neck angle so the end of the fingerboard is raised about a 1/8" above the body thus forcing the bridge to be raised higher and even necessitating a black plastic spacer under the neck pickup. Why they just couldn't leave it alone is beyond me. It's like someone who has never even seen or played a 60s bird gets involved in the planning. I'm wildly frustrated by this. I guess I'll just scoure Ebay and Reverb for Vintage Pro Thunderbirds. Oi!
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: godofthunder on March 08, 2024, 08:54:50 AM: https://i.imgur.com/25RQbTT.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/30nghPU.jpeg
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: saltymonkey on March 08, 2024, 11:00:49 AM: Ugh. That’s annoying. Thanks for saving me $850 Scott. I almost ordered one two days ago. I’ll look for a used VP as well. I wish sellers would stop treating the white ones like collectors items.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Basvarken on March 08, 2024, 11:54:42 AM: Oooh that looks pretty bad.
Thanx fir poibting that out Scott.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: 4stringer77 on March 08, 2024, 01:03:07 PM: Well at least the Les Paul players will feel at home on those. Wouldn't this neck angle make for a less lengthy reach toward the nut end of the neck? Maybe they viewed it as an improvement to the design? I wonder if it will effect sales that much. Most first time Thunderbird buyers may not be bothered or concerned.
By the way, hope you enjoy the eclipse coming up Scott. Looks like you'll be in the path of totality over in western New York. I'm debating whether or not it'd be worth making the drive to see it myself. Those eclipses happen as often as Epiphone China get vintage Gibson specs right. ;)
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: n!k on March 08, 2024, 01:06:31 PM: Scott, was the Rex Brown Chinese bird this way too or is this just the "1964 Thunderbirds" (perhaps the number 1964 refers to some kind of measurement and not the year...)
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: uwe on March 08, 2024, 01:41:58 PM: "Why they just couldn't leave it alone is beyond me."

I'm trying to put some sense to it. I have a hunch they wanted to achieve something with it. Making a proper angle with a neck-thru is more tricky than leaving it straight/flat. To make lower action more easily achievable even for someone who is not quite so experienced in setting up a bass? Did they perhaps reduce the backward angle of the TBird headstock in the process to make it less break-prone?

I know, I know, you guys are like the Supreme Court,

(https://supremecourthistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/supreme-court-portrait-2022.jpg)

mostly Originalists (except when it doesn't match the own agenda of course), but what if the deviation from the original is an improvement? It does happen, you know.

I'm crawling back under my rock. But in almost 30 years of playing TBirds it has never bothered me whether the neck joint (with a neck-thru it's not really a "joint") has an angle as long as the bass sounds good and can be set up well.

Or are these new TBirds set neck rather than neck-thru? If that's the case, why the excitement at all, because in my book they are then not real TBirds anyway. It's no matter what you do, but no messin' with the neck-thru!

Now gang up on me, I'll be your martyr!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iJqSBRcB0Uk/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: n!k on March 08, 2024, 04:16:21 PM: Since it was a slow work day I decided to summarize the issue at hand
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: godofthunder on March 09, 2024, 08:07:20 AM: Sigh. I don't have the energy to pursue this topic any longer, discuss amongst yourselves if you desire. I am just baffled how they could take something as near perfect as the Vintage Pro and F it up. I need to lie down it's making my head hurt.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: gearHed289 on March 09, 2024, 11:37:52 AM: Weird. Looks like more trouble to build that way.

Quote from: saltymonkey on March 08, 2024, 11:00:49 AM
I wish sellers would stop treating the white ones like collectors items.

Yup! White is almost always a premium. Looks so good though!

My Les Paul fingerboard sits flat on the body.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: 4stringer77 on March 09, 2024, 12:02:12 PM: For a flat top bass, that's not surprising. Most of the carve top guitars would have a pitch to the neck I believe.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Chris P. on March 14, 2024, 07:31:44 AM: I got the Silver Mist in as a review bass. Haven't plugged it in yet, so I come back to you later. But yes: Both pickups are mounted on a plate.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Chris P. on March 14, 2024, 07:32:39 AM: But it looks stunning in that colour!!! Wow. It matches great with the chrome hardware. I really dig the looks.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: TBird1958 on March 14, 2024, 08:48:53 AM: Some pics..........
I have to agree with Scott, it was a well made bass just as it was - it would have been nice if they had kept production in Indonesea and just offered new colors. A couple of points though, a couple of my bird do have pitched necks, as does my Les Paul Oversize - I don't find it to be an issue, certainly not one of quality or how low the action can be set up, if anything my new red one has better action than the older white one. Interestingly, the black spacer on the neck pickup is faithful to the real deal and is present on my Greco and Lull, so I'm well over that.

A couple of comparison shots
Original:
(https://i.imgur.com/FxQyE1x.jpg?1)

New:
(https://i.imgur.com/8WsIuoR.jpg?1)

New pitch:
Note box on the floor, it's some Gibson RI Thunderbird pickups for our esteemed Hollander Rob.
(https://i.imgur.com/onOh4z8.jpg?1)

Headstocks:
(https://i.imgur.com/64DZDJb.jpg)
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: uwe on March 14, 2024, 04:37:00 PM: I can't get worked up about any of this. Whatever works better.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Chris P. on March 15, 2024, 06:47:47 AM: The pickup rings have an advantage. If you use the pickup as a thumbrest it's a bit more comfortable.

I compared the '24 to my '76. The green-ish silver looks so different than the sunburst, I used a caliper to be sure. I'll write down a lot of differences, but it's real close! I like this one much better than my returned Inverness non rev Gibson. This is a review bass though...

Weight: no notable difference - light!
Sound: close!
Neck: My '76 is 2mm smaller at the nut, but a bit wider at the body. The '24 is 2mm flatter, so the '76 is a bit rounder.
Headstock: same size, the TRC is made from heavier plastic on the Epi. The '76 has reverse tuners.
Body: My '76 looks a bit thinner here and there.
Logo: different position and of course it's coloured on the Bicentennial.
Bridge: tune-o-matic versus three point.
Input: on the back/side now. Better. It looks cleaner too, although it isn't original.
Controls: no spacing difference on the Epi.
Pickups: placing is a bit different, but maybe correct for a '64. Just some millimeters. Which in America will be: Some Freedom Eagle Feathers difference.

All in all very impressive, cool looking, nice playing, good sounding, and quite accurate.

(https://thumbs-eu-west-1.myalbum.io/photo/540/971eff24-7daf-45c3-9886-3025bda5ddf3.jpg)

(https://thumbs-eu-west-1.myalbum.io/photo/540/699757fa-8f7e-4f4e-b322-3cd31f1f1d88.jpg)
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Chris P. on March 15, 2024, 07:00:04 AM: One more thing: On some Gibson pics it looks really silver, but there's a bit green in it. A very warm colour.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: 4stringer77 on March 15, 2024, 08:03:41 AM: That's a compelling argument in favor of this bass I wish I didn't hear. Moving the output jack (That's what it should be called by the way) off the front is pretty slick. Looks better that way and eliminates the potential for breaks. Still, I'd rather save up for something extra special as tempting as these 64 Epis may be. I'll say it again because it bears repeating.
Gibson simply has to make a fiftieth anniversary Bicentennial Thunderbird for 2026.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: TBird1958 on March 15, 2024, 09:17:18 AM: Quote from: uwe on March 14, 2024, 04:37:00 PM
I can't get worked up about any of this. Whatever works better.

Honestly, to me, we're splitting some pretty short hairs with it - either version is a fine instrument in my judgement. I'm very happy to own them. I don't think the online shots do justice to the colors, the red is just beautiful.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: Chris P. on March 16, 2024, 02:56:25 AM: Quote from: 4stringer77 on March 15, 2024, 08:03:41 AM
That's a compelling argument in favor of this bass I wish I didn't hear. Moving the output jack (That's what it should be called by the way) off the front is pretty slick. Looks better that way and eliminates the potential for breaks. Still, I'd rather save up for something extra special as tempting as these 64 Epis may be. I'll say it again because it bears repeating.
Gibson simply has to make a fiftieth anniversary Bicentennial Thunderbird for 2026.

Input/output. The jack goes in, the sound goes out. I guess people will understand:

Bicentennial: please don't mention that bass will be 50 soon. I'm as old as that bass and I don't wanna know!
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: 4stringer77 on March 16, 2024, 05:50:33 PM: Hey, we're just catching up to the rest of the cool kids around here. I don't envy the youth when it comes to what they're looking at for buying a house now. Fifty isn't really such a huge number. Just fifty thousand bucks gets you that new Jimmy Page double neck. What a deal! :o
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: lowend1 on March 26, 2024, 09:22:32 AM: Quote from: n!k on March 08, 2024, 04:16:21 PM
Since it was a slow work day I decided to summarize the issue at hand

Shouldn't the original Embassy bass be in there somewhere?
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: lowend1 on March 26, 2024, 09:23:57 AM: Quote from: godofthunder on March 09, 2024, 08:07:20 AM
Sigh. I don't have the energy to pursue this topic any longer, discuss amongst yourselves if you desire. I am just baffled how they could take something as near perfect as the Vintage Pro and F it up. I need to lie down it's making my head hurt.

And they charge more for it, too.
Title: Re: I give up on Epiphone and Gibson
Post by: lowend1 on March 26, 2024, 09:35:37 AM: Quote from: 4stringer77 on March 16, 2024, 05:50:33 PM
Hey, we're just catching up to the rest of the cool kids around here. I don't envy the youth when it comes to what they're looking at for buying a house now. Fifty isn't really such a huge number. Just fifty thousand bucks gets you that new Jimmy Page double neck. What a deal! :o

They're also making a lot more money (generally speaking) as they come into the house-buying years too. Plus, they're generally not amenable to fixer-uppers, which is something many of us just accepted as a matter of course. Every generation has its challenges - personally, I'd rather deal with this than the Depression, WWII or Vietnam.