The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: PhilT on December 05, 2010, 07:40:50 AM
-
As I get better acquainted with the Ripper, I think there might be a problem with the neck, just not sure if it's enough for a trip to the luthier, or even if he could do anything anyway, so would appreciate advice ...
Where the neck is set into the body, on the E string side there's paint missing at the join and if I press on the fretboard there I feel a small amount of give. Difficult to photograph, being all black, but here's my best shot.
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/IMG_1510.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/IMG_1509.jpg)
I've got the neck straight and it feels ok to play, so should I leave it and see what happens, or get it checked out now before it gets worse?
-
Sounds to me like the neck joint is failing, sounds worse than it is. A lot depends on how you are going to use the bass. If it is your main player, you are working/touring with it get it checked out. If it is one of many, do it at your leisure or bass is playable and you are happy with the action, I would be inclined to leave it so long as it isn't your go to axe.
-
Refresh my memory, did you just buy this? If so where? If you got it off of ebay and this issue was not disclosed I would talk o the seller and get some $ back.
-
If the action is fine then it doesn't need a neck reset, at least yet. It's possible that the glue joint has come loose on the E side. Hard to tell without a luthier seeing it in person. It shouldn't be a costly repair.
OTOH in the earlier thread you said something about the finish on the back of the neck being odd, that makes me wonder if it's not hiding a neck repair.
-
In that case I'll see how it works out in gigs over the next couple of weeks and probably take it to the repair man after Xmas. It was a private sale, not eBay, and the price leaves me some room to have work done on it, so that's ok. The back of the neck just needed a lot of cleaning, it's not sticky now, though very prone to collecting hand prints, but I put that down to it being black.
The other probable issue is position 3, which I believe is the bridge pup solo, is much weaker output than 1,2 & 4. The bridge pup, I was told, was a Kent Armstrong custom job based on the original spec. I assume both pups should be giving the same output. Might be looking for a Ripper pickup at some point.
-
OK, I'm talking nonsense (again).
Position 2 is the bridge pickup solo "for maximum treble response". Sounds like maximum bass response to me, but I'm not very good at analyzing these things. Seems like a fuller sound than the other positions. Bottom line is the KA rebuild pickup seems ok.
Position 3 was billed by Gibson as "more bottom end response", but to me there's a significant volume drop and it sounds all scooped out, less of everything really. What should it sound like?
Edit: I've listened to the clips on flyguitars, doesn't sound much like that, but that might be equipment and playing technique.
-
Stock from the company position 1 was both pups full throttle, position 2 the treble pup full throttle, positon 3 both pups choked/filtered (mostly mids filtered away, but a signifacant volume decrease to pos 1) and position 4 both pups even more choked and filtered (mostly bass filtered away, hence this position sounds more like position 2 than any other, but has less volume as well).
-
Thanks Uwe. That matches what I'm getting from pos 3, so it's right to spec, even if it doesn't seem very usable.
On Monday I put pos 4 through a Big Muff. The guitarist said it was "immense", when in his dictionary means "you're drowning my exquisite guitar work".
-
Conventional wisdom is that only pos 1 and 3 make any sense though I can see pos 4 working well with effects. On one of my Rippers, I've scrapped pos 4 for neck pup full throttle solo mode (the variation never offered by Gibson stock for inexplicable reasons). That sounds a bit like an angry Jazz Bass with just the front single coil running.
-
With the band I keep coming back to 4, even without the Muff. So maybe the KA makes a difference. Short of buying another Ripper to compare, I'll never know. Sometime when I'm feeling adventurous I might have a look under the covers, though on experience so far it would be pos 3 in fro a resoldering.
-
Technically it goes like this:
Position 1 is both pickups wired in series which results in the fattest highest output.
Position 2 is indeed the bridge pickup only.
Position 3 is both pickups wired parallell (less output, not as strong bottom end compared to pos 1).
Position 4 is both pickups wired parallell and out of phase. A thin weird sound that actually works sometimes on the fretless version.
-
The plot thickens, or maybe it doesn't.
The tone alternatives on this bass didn't match any of the descriptions I've seen here or anywhere else. On 1,2 & 4 it was harsh and aggressive, the E string overpowering, the other strings very bright, really not musical at all. On position 3 there was no power, no bass, no definition.
When I got it the pickups were very high, touching the strings. I screwed them down as far as I thought they would go. Then last night I took the pickguard off to have a look at the electrics and saw there was a few millimeters further they could go, so I screwed them right down, put everything back and - complete transformation. Tone now absolutely matches everything I've read, it's like a different bass, and much more to my taste.
So I thought, great, but I'm surprised small differences in pickup height would make that much difference. Having slept on it, I now wonder if, in poking about very tentatively in the wiring, I've accidentally fixed something else. The only thing I can think of is maybe a wire trapped between the pickguard and the body.
I wouldn't know stock wiring for a Ripper if it bit me, but I can see it's been extensively copper shielded and earthing wires have been added from one of the pots and from the back of the neck pickup (also shielded) to the cavity shielding. Soldering's not the best I've seen, but seems to be holding.
Any thoughts on whether this could be a pickup height issue, or what else I might have "fixed"?
-
Pickup height is (one of) the most important factor in getting the most out of a pup. Raise the pups back to where they sounded wrong and you'll find out if you 'accidentally fixed something else'.
-
Depending on which side of the fence you are on, the Ripper pups are so docile/lame or musical/true that I would not have imagined that they could have ever sounded harsh. But with their magnetic field not the most even, the closeness of the strings might have led to overpowering and/or uneven signals and to harsh distortion.
-
Pickup height is (one of) the most important factor in getting the most out of a pup. Raise the pups back to where they sounded wrong and you'll find out if you 'accidentally fixed something else'.
You're right, that's what I should do, in the interests in scientific truth. Yet the fear lurks in the dark recesses of my soul - what if I raise them again, and the sound goes harsh again, and I screw them back down ....
and it doesn't change. ???
Even atheists can be superstitious.
-
Hmmmm. Had the screw driver out and had the pickups back up and down in various combinations, can't replicate the problem. So looks like I fixed something.
-
By a long slow process of trial and error, I think it's an amp problem.
At home I mostly plug into a laptop with headphones, which masks any tone pretty well. But, I also have a Crate BT50, which is what I played through after lowering the pickups. Sounds just like a Ripper should through that.
For gigs and band rehearsals I've got a Markbass CMD 121H combo. Played it through that tonight, and all the problems were back. Played it through the Crate when I got home to check, and it's still fine.
So ..... vintage bass, modern amp design, some kind of incompatibility?
-
It might be that the Markbass Combo picks up things that get swallowed with the Crate?
-
It might be that the Markbass Combo picks up things that get swallowed with the Crate?
That's probably it.
-
When I switch my Roland modeling cube amp from the Ampeg 8x10 simulation to the SWR simulation, the effect on noisy basses like the RD Artists is quite startling. All of the sudden I get alien signals and Cold War short wave radio stations ... And many sixties vintage basses all of the sudden have side noises I've never detected before.
-
You're right, that's what I should do, in the interests in scientific truth. Yet the fear lurks in the dark recesses of my soul - what if I raise them again, and the sound goes harsh again, and I screw them back down ....
and it doesn't change. ???
Even atheists can be superstitious.
First, you must sacrifice rum and cigars to Jobu:
(http://www.27pitches.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Jobu1.jpg)
-
First, you must sacrifice rum and cigars to Jobu:
(http://www.27pitches.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Jobu1.jpg)
It feels like that. I've developed an emotional attachment to this bass, despite not being able to get a sound out of it I can use.
A previous owner went mad with shielding and earth wires. I've taken some of that out, certainly hasn't made anything worse. The bridge pickup is a Kent Armstrong replacement, which is a bit hotter I think (7.78K). No idea what else has gone on in that wiring, I've seen simpler car engines.
Sorry for boring you all to death. I throw all this out in the hope someone will say "that's your problem, right there."
This what was in there ...
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/pickupswiring1.jpg)
and now ....
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/wiring1.jpg)
(the blue wire heading off to the right with a yellow bit hanging off is the earth to the bridge. Looks like someone stripped half the yellow sleeve for some reason, the actual wire is ok. The gap was taped, just took it off to see what they'd done.)
-
Phil, there came a time when everything I did to my RD just kind of made perfect sense...
one pup - one pot - signal out
;)
-
It feels like that. I've developed an emotional attachment to this bass, despite not being able to get a sound out of it I can use.
A previous owner went mad with shielding and earth wires. I've taken some of that out, certainly hasn't made anything worse. The bridge pickup is a Kent Armstrong replacement, which is a bit hotter I think (7.78K). No idea what else has gone on in that wiring, I've seen simpler car engines.
Sorry for boring you all to death. I throw all this out in the hope someone will say "that's your problem, right there."
This what was in there ...
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/pickupswiring1.jpg)
and now ....
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/wiring1.jpg)
(the blue wire heading off to the right with a yellow bit hanging off is the earth to the bridge. Looks like someone stripped half the yellow sleeve for some reason, the actual wire is ok. The gap was taped, just took it off to see what they'd done.)
i didn't know Kent made Ripper pups. Those i would like to hear. Anybody know how i can get them. my ripper pups are dead.
BTW when i finally replace/fix them i am going with a simple toggle switch. Never thought the switch did much of any value on rippers IMHO
-
when I got mine the wiring had already been buggered, so I wired it like an LP. it sounds good on all settings now. 8)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/rsteiner/L-9S/body10.jpg)
-
when I got mine the wiring had already been buggered, so I wired it like an LP. it sounds good on all settings now. 8)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/rsteiner/L-9S/body10.jpg)
looks like Jobu has spoken to you ... looks good too.
-
BTW when i finally replace/fix them i am going with a simple toggle switch. Never thought the switch did much of any value on rippers IMHO
Always felt it was more of a restraining factor which prevented the PUPs to speak for themselves, so I can't agree more .....
-
On the new Ripper II, the pups come courtesy of Seymour Duncan. I'm sure, if you ask them nicely, they'll sell you a pair. They match the sound of the old one, but are more there, single coilish nature and all. I very much liked the sound I got with my Ripper II on our recordings.
-
i didn't know Kent made Ripper pups. Those i would like to hear. Anybody know how i can get them. my ripper pups are dead.
BTW when i finally replace/fix them i am going with a simple toggle switch. Never thought the switch did much of any value on rippers IMHO
The replacement was done 2 owners ago, sometime before April 2008. From what I've been told, it must have been a custom order. KA used the old cover to mold a new one and wound it based on the original specs. No idea how much that cost, but I expect it would make the SDs seem cheap. Back is all sealed. I tried to do some recording, but it didn't come out well.
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Gibson%20Ripper/bridgepickup2.jpg)
Just noticed the ones SD sell for $160 look like the older ones that screw into the body.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/specialized-1/ripper_bass_rep/ (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/specialized-1/ripper_bass_rep/)
A simpler wiring scheme could be an attractive option.
-
thats interesting that seymour duncan do ripper pups.i wish they would do their chrome big brother...
-
Yup, those are the ones on the new Ripper II and they sound mighty fine. If you want to know how go to
www.zentralstudio.de
Kundenlogin, type in raintunes for poject name and for user and then plainingjet for password. "Venus Found" is the track with the Ripper II (with an EB-OF playing the "bass melody" both undistorted and distorted in the chorus, but other than that its all Ripper II). It's a slightly scooped, throaty and single-coilish in nature sound which needs some eq'ed mids to cut through and has quite some piano ring to it. Stings used are DR Jonas Hellborg Signature strings which have just one very thick winding (and look very piano stringish for it) and probably enhance the "not so many mids" characteristic of the Ripper II (I tried them just for the heck of it, I'm willing to give any string at least one chance on my basses).
-
I think I've cracked it, at last.
Got a bridge cover from guitarpartsresource (original was missing) and put a bit of foam padding between it and the saddles. Gigged last night and it was great, sounded just like I think it should.
Other factors along the way, pickup height and maybe pickup wires trapped between the pickguard and the body (not sure how that would affect anything, but it's the only thing I can think I fixed when I had the guard off).
Anyway, I'm happy. We're bonding.
-
I love happy endings.
-
Many months and gigs later, I still wasn't happy with it. Sometimes it would sound ok, but mostly not, and with the pickups screwed right down the output was weak.
So I had a harder look inside and realised the Kent Armstrong rebuild pickup at the bridge only had one coil wired in and was wired with the polarity backwards. Having swapped the orginal wires round and wiring the other coil to the back of a pot, it sounds right now, I can raise the pickups and take out the bit of foam.
As there is an out of phase option on the pickup selector anyway, I can't really get my head round the electrical effect of the previous wiring.