The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: Alanko on January 14, 2021, 01:22:49 PM
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My last few projects, the Tokai EB-3 and Fender P Bass with neck pickup, have gone to new homes. I still wanted a mudbucker-only thumpy bass, so I bought a used but not abused Epi EB-1 from Ebay.
(https://i.imgur.com/ypbkTVr.jpg)
These things aren't really perfect. Bolt-on neck, weird Hofner shape, etc. If you are an EB-1 historian or purist then you will spot the issues a mile away. Chrome mudbucker, one F-hole, no pinstripe around the body. Its a facsimile of an EB-1 realy.
I didn't want an Epi EB-0 though as this seems a bit too... obvious? Not sure. I've had an Epi EB-0 before, so this is something new.
I plan to refinish the bass. The original finish it heavily worn, and being a satin finish it has turned glossy in some places. Like I've seen on some other Epi basses, the neck is maple but stained red. The body is mahogany of some flavour, with a black grain filler and red lacquer over the top. This looks almost purple for whatever reason. Red neck, purple body filled with dents = no good.
I've started stripping the finish and the body looks like decent wood rather than a veneered chunk of pallet-grade wood. I think the grain might be real!
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Weird Höfner shape? The Gibson came first, in 1953.
Looks to be in good shape. I never did like the finish on those, you can turn it into something nicer.
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If it plays well, it would not be too hard to make it look decent?
I have made a couple of mudbucker pickup covers from old bakelite radios (they sell for nearly nothing) both brown (single coil) and black. The bar bridge is not as hard to get either, that guy in Argentina makes those now at a fair price. Kluson makes good banjo tuners, at least the metal knob ones are ok.
I guess the hardest part is to get authentic brown knobs! The China ones does not look good. You can always buy a Gibson Tal Farlow guitar on ebay and take the knobs off it :)
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Weird Höfner shape? The Gibson came first, in 1953.
Looks to be in good shape. I never did like the finish on those, you can turn it into something nicer.
The Gibson basses had a shape that is truer to real violins and violas. The Hofner outline has droopy shoulders and smoother waist cutaways in the sides. Epiphone used the body profile of Hofner basses rather than the original Gibson EB(1) outline.
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The Gibson basses had a shape that is truer to real violins and violas. The Hofner outline has droopy shoulders and smoother waist cutaways in the sides. Epiphone used the body profile of Hofner basses rather than the original Gibson EB(1) outline.
I know what you mean, but the Epi isn't a clone of the Höfner. The shoulders on the Gibson are more like a true violin shape but not really close.
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Gibson should reissue the EB-1 again but with Busseto corners. ;D
In terms of the Hofner, having what are called Gamba corners on a bass is also a traditional feature of upright string basses. Flat backs are also common on uprights and the most obvious feature setting the Hofner apart from the Gibson is that it's also hollow body like an upright. In either case, they are electric instruments versus their acoustic inspirations. Pretty sure Hofners don't have sound posts anyhow. I get that the Epi is a far cry from the Gibson but that's what you get from a cheap import knockoff. I wouldn't worry about the chrome pickup. The post 69' EB-1's had them too. Good luck with the refin. Looking forward to seeing the results.
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As far as the Hofner shape, I bought an Epiphone case for my first Gibson EB-1 because I didn’t like the case that came with it. I was amazed at how different it was. The Gibson body was longer & thinner than the Epiphone. I had to alter the case quite a bit to get the Gibson to fit properly. Epiphone had been making the Hofner copy for some time. I assumed that they made their EB-1 the same shape to share the hard shell case between models.
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I assume that Epiphone just used the same basic outline as their violin bass.
I got the bass stripped at the weekend, using a hot air gun and a palm sander. The body is made from two pieces of some sort of mahogany. The treble half has absorbed more red stain than the bass half, but this might be okay with enough grain filling and staining.
First I hand sanded an area to make sure it was real wood under there and not a veneer.
(https://i.imgur.com/7waZMsk.jpg)
Then broke out the heat gun, mechanical sander etc.
(https://i.imgur.com/BMwVXWX.jpg)
After about six hours of sanding...
(https://i.imgur.com/XGe6tRj.jpg)
I'm going with a darker mahogany grain filler, lighter mahogany stain and then Rustins plastic coating on the body. Probably just Danish Oil on the neck. I want the body to be browner, and lighter, than the original purple-red factory colour.
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Good looking wood there. Surprised to see a solid chunk and no veneer. Those corners aren't the squarest, especially the lower ones. If you choose to add the imitation purfling line(s) on the perimeter, that could help bring out the pointiness more.
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I had a bit of a think about this. I added a bit of a smooth roundover on the bass side, in part because I had to sand out quite a lot of stain from the wood there so it made sense to keep going.
My thoughts now are to preserve the squared corners where they have survived (the wood wasn't especially squared off to begin with, and the lacquer had built up more on the edges), smooth some other bits, and make the thing feel a wee bit more organic and less like a violin shape cut out with a bandsaw!
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That sanded body looks nicer than I expected.
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Looking good!
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weird Hofner shape
That's just an upright bass silhouette, Gamba style, the most common upright shape. It was like that 300 years before Hofner. The Gibson shape is a bit like 16th century Panormo-style basses, wide-shouldered and violin corners.
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I've made some progress!
Firstly I plugged that hole in the bottom! Mine didn't come with the screw-in extension, and the strap button used is just another bridge pin. I want to use normal strap buttons, not something that can unscrew itself easily, so I whittled down some hardwood dowel and bashed it in.
(https://i.imgur.com/iZqMhxF.jpg)
I used Gorilla glue, because I never said I was a luthier! ;D
then onto the grain filling. I watched some Youtube videos from people building Les Pauls. As I'm not spraying anything I don't really have a chance to either seal the wood prior to filling or use a tinted lacquer on top. My compromise is to grain fill then sand that back level with the wood. Then apply stain and lacquer over this.
(https://i.imgur.com/7Zcd79l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V0wv9aS.jpg)
That is my office chair in the background. This is week 46 of working from home. It doesn't look like this is going to change any time soon either.
I went outside to sand the grain filler back back:
(https://i.imgur.com/FAJ0sxR.jpg)
Then a wee bit of staining:
(https://i.imgur.com/CXCpO7H.jpg)
Our cats knock those plant pots over every time we go outside, so I've given up righting them.
(https://i.imgur.com/TRzuW4B.jpg)
Looks like a piece of wood now! I've used a mix of teak, mahogany and oak woodstains. I want the bass to be red-brown rather than a lurid cherry red, and light enough that you can see the filled grain. I don't want it to look like light wood with an unusually dark grain marching over it, so this is a nice middle-ground.
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Looking good.
I'd maybe make it a little bit darker, to make it look more like a dark mahogany?
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Following Basvarken's lead I dyed the body darker, using the back of my Eastman acoustic as a point of reference:
(https://i.imgur.com/OguR5if.jpg)
From here on it has been multiple coats of Rustins plastic coating. This is a smelly job and, as I've said elsewhere, this product is either merciless or endlessly forgiving. It has a longer setup period than advised in the instruction manual, but there is a window of opportunity when you can use the stuff. I applied nine coats, usually three to four hours apart. This allows each coat to chemically bond into the previous coat. Leave it too long and you have to wait for the stuff to off-gas and then hope that further coats mechanically bond with previous coats.
At the half way mark I wet-sanded the stuff level. The consensus is that this gives a flatter final coat, but I'm not entirely convinced. The coats are fairly flat anyway, with the exception of a few runs and wiggles here and there, and really I just want to build a thick enough layer that I don't have to worry about sanding through.
(https://i.imgur.com/9AgQyEP.jpg)
The stripes in the wood seem to correspond with hotspots and notspots in how well the wood took the stain. As I move the body the figuring in the wood now moves under the light, which is a far cry from the dark featureless finish that was on there before.
My attention is slowly turning to the neck. I was planning to do a Danish Oil finish on the maple, but I fancy trying the Rustins on this as well. I've never had luck dying maple. Any end grain or grain runout drinks dye. This tends to be in awkward areas of the headstock or around the heel, etc. I will try and tint the Rustins with alcohol-based wood dye (also Rustins, so I'm at least keeping it in the family), and working from there.
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Wow, that beautiful!
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That looks great!
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Yeah that's beautiful
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Sure makes the grain pop ,Nice!.
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Looking CUSTOM! The darker stain really worked well.
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Thanks guys!
I've started buffing the finish out. It looks okay from far away, but the 'raw' finish is quite bumpy with lots of dust and other things trapped in it.
(https://i.imgur.com/Shw9OLl.jpg)
I initially wet sanded with 600 grit, but use 400 grit on the most uneven areas. The white dots here are low spots:
(https://i.imgur.com/UsvxnJv.jpg)
After machine polishing I get this:
(https://i.imgur.com/hQMnikD.jpg)
Quite a glossy dipped-in-plastic look!
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That cleaned up nicely. Seems the last polish evened out the rough spots in the gloss. Did you mention anything special for the electronics when you button her up?
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Electronics will just be an Artec mudbucker, volume, tone and output. I thought about wiring the tone control like the Peavey T20/40 system; dumping one coil of the pickup to ground when the control is fully turned up. I'm more in favour of simplicity though, and having a small brown bass that really rumbles. I could only find 250 k ohm pots in my spare parts box, so this might just cement the rumble further. 8)
Since I last posted I've been doing the fiddly wee jobs. I had to level and re-crown the frets as there was quite a lot of roundwound chew on the lowest frets. As a flatwound player I never seem to dish out this abuse on frets, but I've encountered a fair few basses with ground out frets. As such, I wonder if some guy put thousands of hours on this bass, or just had an aggressive technique with lots of vibrato?
I took this photo today, which captures the colour a lot better than the artificially lit photos I've been uploading:
(https://i.imgur.com/R43G8ZJ.jpg)
The lacquer has totally stabilised. It has sunk a little into the grain since I last buffed it, but this has countered the 'dipped in plastic' look. If anything it looks a bit like nitro. I've seen Rustins plastic coating described as being somewhere between 2K and nitro, so maybe there is some truth to this.
The body is stuck on the stand here as I'm touching up one small bit where I blew through the lacquer into the wood. No such thing as a free lunch... the apprentice still has a lot to master...
(https://i.imgur.com/ydGLqjb.jpg)
Having done the frets, my attention is now turned to the neck itself. I sanded this back to bare maple, with a view to using an oil finish of some sort. I slowly started to think that this wouldn't look right, pairing a glossy and overtly 'finished' body with a rustic, satin-finish neck. The obvious solution is more Rustins!
This time I've been brave and mixed wood dye into the Rustins to give it a colour. Maple seems to take in dye quite unpredictably and inconsistently, so I figured I might as well add the colour to the lacquer.
(https://i.imgur.com/uNz8PsH.jpg)
After one coat it looked a bit warmer, and less pinky-white, so I was suitably encouraged.
(https://i.imgur.com/9kw9UAG.jpg)
After these photos I added three more coats. I'm going to review these tomorrow before adding more colour coats or simply adding clear Rustins over the top. Unfortunately I've had one run which has given me a darker line. I won't make this mistake the next time!
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That's coming along nicely :thumbsup:
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You may have more to learn, but that looks great.
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V 8) ... :popcorn:
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Lookin' good! Pass the popcorn Kenny.
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The new color on the body is a major improvement over the former finish and much more aligned with the original EBs. Kudos to you.
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That looks beautiful! What a great job, you really made something out of that bass.
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Thanks again for the kind words! :mrgreen:
The neck is now beginning its four-day curing phase.
I ran into a couple of issues early on which I think I have a remedy for, but definitely getting filed in the 'I will do this differently next time' bin.
I was surprised by how quickly the amber colour started ramping up on the neck. The colour was just in the Rustins (a blend of 'pine' and 'light teak' dye). I had one run, which was resulted in a darker patch on the neck. I sanded this out, but very quickly went through the amber, which then gave me a lighter patch instead. The takeaway from this, I'm getting, is:
1) Make sure any coloured coats go on perfectly and check any known offending areas for runs, etc.
2) Build up layers of untinted clear to seal in the colour coats.
My thinking here is down to the fact that I wanted to hit my magical nine coat target, but by that time the neck would be dark orange. I started applying uncoloured Rustins for the last three coats, which went on heavier as a result as the dye thins the stuff out. This should give me a good base to wet sand back to a level finish, like the body.
I'm trying to figure out how to wet sand a curved surface without introducing flat spots. I know the answer is 'apply good quality coats that need the minimum of aftercare', but this isn't the case with Rustins! It rolls on thick and gives you enough raw material to finesse later. A lot of people are now using ultra-thin oil finishes on maple necks, so advice now seems to be weighted towards this style of work. I will figure something out!
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That guitar repair book (Dan Erlewine) has a good chapter on finishing, addressing issues you mention.
It's fairly easy to tint wood, but when you sand through multiple coats on top of that, it can be impossible to 'repair' it right.
I used this book when I learnt how to shoot paint, like a handbook. Not everybody likes his style, but the book is a good collection of tips from people who knows their trade. Adding some methods at least helped me to enjoy finishing and make it less stressful. I still makes lot of mistakes, though :-\
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Thank you for reminding me that i own that book. I was trying to figure out where my copy had gone....
(https://i.imgur.com/hL3BPon.jpg)
Part of my makeshift working-from-home rig.
It is interesting that Dan suggests you dye the maple rather than apply tinted lacquer, as aged maple really is just the lacquer discolouring. I imagine if you found a '51 Strat and started sanding the lacquer off the maple underneath would still be white?
Burying colour coats in clear seems to be the way to go.
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It is done!
(https://i.imgur.com/j8KsZQ9.jpg)
I'm 100% happy with the body and maybe 80% happy with the neck.
(https://i.imgur.com/hAJ9LTA.jpg)
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Congrats. The body looks good. The neck looks a bit pale maybe? Is that what you mean?
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What, no fake F hole? ;P Good job; she looks great.
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Looks like a fun little bass! Body looks great.
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Wow, you really transformed it! I see what you mean about the neck, but I still think the whole thing looks really nice. If it sounds as good as it looks, you're golden!
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What George said. Nice work!
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Nice, anyway you look at it - it's an improvement!
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That looks great, including the neck.
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Congrats. The body looks good. The neck looks a bit pale maybe? Is that what you mean?
The neck is a little too dark and too orange for my tastes. I didn't want to to match the body as I figured it couldn't be done. I was going for a sort of Norlin-era bolt-on Gibson look of a brown body and warm maple neck.
The other issues were around buffing out the lacquer on it. The heat of the buffing wheel sort of cooked out the red pigment in one or two places and I burned straight through one corner of the headstock back to bare wood.
The lacquer itself is quite grippy feeling, so I've knocked the gloss off with 0000 steel wool.
(https://i.imgur.com/PykzWEE.jpg)
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Looks great! It does remind me of my first Les Paul Recording. It was a 1975 with a maple neck.
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I didn't want to to match the body as I figured it couldn't be done.
I don't think that would have been too hard. You can stain just about any colour you wish.
I use Clou waterbased stain. It is sold as a powder in a sachet that you dissolve in warm water.
Here's an example of a maple top that I stained with a dark oak 165. (Which is a lighter colour than dark mahogany 170)
(https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/31958314-10216198408577954-2739999177034432512-n_orig.jpg)
(https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/32072623-10216198408617955-9133211404772311040-n_orig.jpg)
Having said that, I think the neck on your bass looks just fine. :toast:
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That bass just looks like fun, congrats!
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Sound demo would be nice... ;)
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Sound demo would be nice... ;)
I just need to brush up on my Rush licks and then I will record something! :mrgreen:
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:mrgreen: :popcorn:
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That came out great! Looks beautiful.
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I finally got a demo together... ish. I filmed this on my iPhone, with the EB-1 running through my Fender 'Rumble' amp:
https://youtu.be/cR9lpuQ-IdU
The bass is hilariously bassy. If I turn down the tone control the higher notes on the G string become faint. If I play low notes I can hear random bits of the room vibrating sympathetically.
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Hilariously bassy is a good marketing phrase. :) I like it best with the tone dialed back a little.
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That is one cool little bass!
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I think Jack Bruce would be proud of that sound.
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Thanks all! I'm tempted to strip the lacquer back off the neck, as it feels a bit too rubbery for my tastes and I'm not entirely sold on the colour. I might do it at the same time I do the Hondo neck, whenever that might be. :rolleyes:
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The color of the neck is the one thing I don't like. Personally, I would go either natural maple, or figure out how to make it match the body.
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Oxalic acid gives wood an older look. maybe that would work but you would still have to strip and refin it.
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Sounds fine to me... :mrgreen:
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That's a good sounding mudbucker. If I'm being honest, based on the demo, probably has more versatile tones than what I can wrangle out of my EB-1. Enjoy it.
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Man, that sounds great!