The Last Bass Outpost

Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: westen44 on December 31, 2014, 09:15:31 PM

Title: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: westen44 on December 31, 2014, 09:15:31 PM
I'm going to have to agree with one of the comments below the article which says, in effect, if a bass isn't holding the bottom, if it's losing the groove, it isn't bass.  It's just telling people you can play lead guitar on big strings. 

With a few exceptions (such as Hendrix,) lead guitar solos bore me out of my mind.  Why should I want to listen to someone trying to do the same thing for bass?  Something which a bass really isn't designed for, I might add.

http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2011/12/18/all-bass-no-treble-when-is-a-bass-not-bass/
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 01, 2015, 07:01:27 PM
IMO the bass belongs on the bottom.  If you want to play progressive jazz or some other style which stays WAY up the neck, then I admire your chops, but don't expect me to listen to it. Not interested.  Go get a guitar.

I am currently learning the bass part to Frampton's "Do you feel like I do" (a major milestone of guitar wanking IMO, but our lead guitarist wants to give it a try and he has been very gracious in playing stuff I have suggested).  I looked up tabs for it and GEEEEZ...I can't believe the stuff that some people put in tabs.  The first tab I found had half the notes on the 22nd fret!!!  What a joke!!!  http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/p/peter_frampton/do_you_feel_like_i_do_btab.htm

Other versions are from the 10th to 15th fret.  Better but still unnecessary. Forget that.  I transcribed it down to the point where nothing is played above the 5th fret. That's where bass belongs unless there is a fingering advantage what requires playing an entire number higher.

(Should I add "Get off my lawn?")

I've long had a problem with people insisting on tabs which indicate consistently playing up on the neck when there are easier and to my ear more "bassy" fingerings lower on the neck.  I also have no particular aversion to playing open notes, which some bass players avoid like the plague.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Dave W on January 01, 2015, 09:34:37 PM
If it's not holding the bottom then I won't like it, period.

But whether I like it or not, if the music is played on an instrument designed and tuned for bass clef, it's definitely still bass.

OTOH "piccolo bass" is self-contradictory. Is it only played by soprano tenors?  :P
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Aussie Mark on January 02, 2015, 01:50:16 AM
I can listen to almost any instrument playing a solo, bar bass.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on January 02, 2015, 03:58:50 AM
ERB territory... virtuoso, and limited appeal...

... I am currently learning the bass part to Frampton's "Do you feel like I do" ...

Fretless original, iirc...
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: leftybass on January 02, 2015, 07:34:05 AM
I hate the whole "solo bass" thing. When I see pics of BP's Bass Day, with all those bass players on stage wanking, it disgusts me. I LOVE stuff like The Ox's solo on "My Generation", bits that serve the song, but a guy twiddling around on a bass all by himself is not for me. I understand the sentiment that says there's no rules for an artist and self expression, that's fine and I agree, doesn't mean I have to like all of it. I will probably admire your abilities but...
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: 4stringer77 on January 02, 2015, 10:26:39 AM
I have no qualms with basses soloing but it does depend on the style of music and whether the solo is done tastefully while also being melodic and serving the greater composition. Milt Hinton, Ray Brown, Slam Stewart, Major Holley, Paul Chambers, Percy Heath and Sam Jones were great soloists and groove masters. Jaco may be a bit much for some but at least he was playing a Fender Jazz. Once the two handed tapping starts, I usually check out.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: mc2NY on January 02, 2015, 06:33:45 PM
I do not care for bass solos. They are light years worse than drum solos...which I also rather not listen to.

Tasty fills, yes. Solos, no.

I was playing my first live fill-in gig with a popular NYC area club band years back. Right in the middle of one of the cover tunes, the frontman yells "bass solo!!," without any warning. I deliberately played the most NON solo type of solo that I could think of. Later the frontman asked, " what was with that solo?"  I was clearly pissed off and said " I'm the fking BASS player. WHY would I need to do a solo? If you ever pull that shit again, I'll play the solo on your head with my bass neck."

I'm sure he was just trying to show off that my guitarist and I were playing in his band, a big deal for him, but it sucked to have a solo just dropped on you unannounced...in the middle of a song that was a fast 1-4-5 that didn't even lend itself to a solo. GAK!!
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: rahock on January 03, 2015, 05:16:42 AM

I've long had a problem with people insisting on tabs which indicate consistently playing up on the neck when there are easier and to my ear more "bassy" fingerings lower on the neck.  I also have no particular aversion to playing open notes, which some bass players avoid like the plague.
[/quote]

When I started playing bass in the mid/late 60s , I took lessons from a guy who drilled it into me "play in closed positions and avoid open strings". The object of this was to make things easier when changing keys. That was true, all you had to do was move to a new position up or down the neck and not have to think about converting the open string fingering positions. When I started playing an ABG I learned to appreciate the sound of the open strings and it was tough for me to shake the old habit of not using them. Playing the ABG made me start playing more like a bass player and probably taught me more than anything else I have ever done.
Rick
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Stjofön Big on January 03, 2015, 09:19:29 AM
There are two (2) bass solos that makes it for me. As mentioned earlier on, My generation, of course. The other is Chris White's opening, and middle short bass part in The Zombies She's not there. I don't crave more! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBRc8zNQ30
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: maxschrek on January 03, 2015, 05:28:23 PM
Yes, I agree with all here, bass solos blow donkey cocks...as do drum solos.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: lowend1 on January 03, 2015, 08:35:51 PM
I am currently learning the bass part to Frampton's "Do you feel like I do" (a major milestone of guitar wanking IMO, but our lead guitarist wants to give it a try and he has been very gracious in playing stuff I have suggested).  I looked up tabs for it and GEEEEZ...I can't believe the stuff that some people put in tabs.  The first tab I found had half the notes on the 22nd fret!!!  What a joke!!!  http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/p/peter_frampton/do_you_feel_like_i_do_btab.htm

Other versions are from the 10th to 15th fret.  Better but still unnecessary. Forget that.  I transcribed it down to the point where nothing is played above the 5th fret. That's where bass belongs unless there is a fingering advantage what requires playing an entire number higher.

I suppose one can nitpick regarding the talkbox portion of DYFLWD, but that is essentially an audience participation thing. The actual lead breaks are, IMHO, not self indulgent, and are, in fact very lyrical. I played the song in one of my cover bands for a couple of years and really enjoyed my time with it (we cut out the talkbox stuff). If you're planning to nail down Stanley Sheldon's part (and it's a great one) note-for-note, then you may well find yourself up above the fifth fret, because some of the fills run up the neck. IIRC, that was all played on a fretless anyway. It's a fun song to play, especially if your guitar player really "gets" Frampton.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 04, 2015, 11:42:25 AM
I played the song in one of my cover bands for a couple of years and really enjoyed my time with it (we cut out the talkbox stuff). If you're planning to nail down Stanley Sheldon's part (and it's a great one) note-for-note, then you may well find yourself up above the fifth fret, because some of the fills run up the neck. IIRC, that was all played on a fretless anyway. It's a fun song to play, especially if your guitar player really "gets" Frampton.

Nicely said, and thanks. Minus the talkbox part, it's a lot more appealing. I'm not looking to duplicate the original, just to com up with a passable, playable version of it that carries the tune.


When I started playing bass in the mid/late 60s , I took lessons from a guy who drilled it into me "play in closed positions and avoid open strings". The object of this was to make things easier when changing keys. That was true, all you had to do was move to a new position up or down the neck and not have to think about converting the open string fingering positions. When I started playing an ABG I learned to appreciate the sound of the open strings and it was tough for me to shake the old habit of not using them. Playing the ABG made me start playing more like a bass player and probably taught me more than anything else I have ever done.
Rick

My tolerance of open strings may come from learning on upright bass. I always found that on that instrument, an open string is a good friend and a momentary break from the work of holding down those big strings.  I also found that a open strings had resonance that I REALLY liked!
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2015, 05:50:20 PM
Nicely said, and thanks. Minus the talkbox part, it's a lot more appealing. I'm not looking to duplicate the original, just to com up with a passable, playable version of it that carries the tune.

My tolerance of open strings may come from learning on upright bass. I always found that on that instrument, an open string is a good friend and a momentary break from the work of holding down those big strings.  I also found that a open strings had resonance that I REALLY liked!

Jammerson said that also.

I played brass stuff in school but when I wanted to learn bass the only instructor was a country guitar picker.
If I dared grab anything above first position he'd get pissed.  Also learned to play with my thumb on the finger rest rather than fingers "that's why they built it that way kid"

I remember someone on the pit saying that if the girls butts aren't bouncing you're not playing bass  8)   Sorry Jaco
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 06, 2015, 02:10:59 PM
DISSENTING OPINION:

There are no rules on bass nor should there be, period. Any preconceptions of how a bass should be played only limit development and artistic expression. If Jack Bruce and JAE and Macca and Chris Squire and Larry Graham hadn't broken boundaries in their time, the bass world would be a poorer place.

I like bass solos. But I like them to be in a band context, not the whole band stopping and the bassist throwing in some technical chops and the band then returning, that bores me, "bass clinic solos" as opposed to "musical solos". But a bass solo over a harmonic backing (that is the way I prefer drum solos too) where the bass is free to do what it wants is to this day relatively rare in most types of music. Unfortunately, because it sounds nice - whether played with high, medium or low notes. I don't know what that has to do with guitar playing unless melodic solos on all other instruments are somehow handicapped guitar solos too.

And I never understood why an instrument that is fretted up to the 20th fret or more should sacrifice a third or more of its potential playing area for a non-play zone that someone decrees. That just doesn't make sense. A note fretted on the G string at the 22nd fret can have as much meaning as an open E string tone. Even (or especially!) if its unexpected.

Free your mind and your (b)ass will follow. And get an untuned one string boom box if "holding down the rhythm" is all you want to do, why bother changing a note, if you're low enough no one will care? The beauty of bass is the combination of rhythm, harmony and melody - in a word: music!
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on January 06, 2015, 03:23:38 PM
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/08/79_58158_0_JudgeDreddVol39I.jpg)  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: westen44 on January 06, 2015, 04:02:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrRB28MIgDY
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: rahock on January 07, 2015, 05:09:44 AM
Solos where the band stops and the beat changes tend to annoy me. There are some exceptions to this method, which I am on board with, but generally speaking, band stops and beat changes usually doesn't work for me. Staying in the groove and adding some licks up at the 12th fret is cool with me. Hey, there's nothing wrong with showing off a little  ;D. As long as it's only once or twice around and  the groove stays solid with a little help from the rest of the band. Show off time is good.
Rick
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 07, 2015, 05:30:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU-Iod_a57Q


 :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on January 07, 2015, 12:44:47 PM
Oh yeah... what's your ringtone, Uwe...?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 07, 2015, 04:03:18 PM
Breaking the Law of course (no joke), how did you know?
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: amptech on January 08, 2015, 01:40:06 AM
Breaking the Law of course (no joke), how did you know?

Don't forget to turn off the phone when you're in court!
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 08, 2015, 06:12:32 AM
I sometimes have! It has caused bemused smiles from judges, clients and opponent counsel alike.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on January 08, 2015, 07:23:00 AM
During my old band's "introductions" in a funky uptempo song that I completely revamped with my bass line, (it was an awkward off-rhythm chicken picked tune before my bassline, which added a huge dose of timing and funk- the song was written before I was in the band) we'd all take short individual solos in round robin fashion. Mine was hammering the open E and beating my bass body with my head. I had to be careful to not hurt my bass.  ;D
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 08, 2015, 08:38:33 AM
Pah, that's nothing! In the 80ies, our drummer would drum on the strings of my Kramer bass (an alu neck gives you confidence for this kind of thing) while I would move chords around. It sounded like machine gun slapping - eat your heart out Mark King! - and the audience loved it everytime!  You can't get more "combined drums 'n' bass solo".  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 08, 2015, 12:13:46 PM
Pah, that's nothing! In the 80ies, our drummer would drum on the strings of my Kramer bass (an alu neck gives you confidence for this kind of thing) while I would move chords around. It sounded like machine gun slapping - eat your heart out Mark King! - and the audience loved it everytime!  You can't get more "combined drums 'n' bass solo".  :mrgreen:

You, sir, were operating in the footsteps of Dick Dale!
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on January 08, 2015, 12:18:37 PM
Breaking the Law of course (no joke), how did you know?

It's been Munchen'd before... ;)
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 08, 2015, 12:58:50 PM
I didn't know czech anymore.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: 4stringer77 on January 08, 2015, 02:33:37 PM
My friend Phil McCracken would love these jokes.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on January 08, 2015, 03:53:18 PM
Release the McKraken...!

(http://funnyanimalpictures.funnypicturesutopia.com/pics/17/Release-Of-The-Kraken.jpg)
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: patman on January 08, 2015, 06:06:53 PM
Just got a weather report boxed set...if it serves the music, a solo is cool...when you play jazz, you solo through the changes just like any other horn, over the song form.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 09, 2015, 07:33:55 AM
I'm no great Jaco fan, but it was never about his choice of notes, more his rhythms and his sound that did not appeal to me. I could relate better to Stanley Clarke, his bass playing was somehow more macho than Jaco's introvert fiddlings (for the avoidance of doubt: yes, he was a great bass player!).

Many people seem to think that an electric bass guitar is the electric version of the double bass and should fill the same role. That misses a few important points because the role of  the double bass was inherently limited by acoustic factors, the duration of its tone (and how the percussive element is more dominant than with an electric bass), the strength it devours to play (especially the higher notes) and how difficult it is to project it forcefully in an otherwise electric setting/its sluggish tone emission. The electric bass GUITAR, otoh, has different options, gives different opportunities and one of the explanations of its (by now: lasting) success is that it is less limited than a double bass. To me, the musical place of a bass guitar is not the same place as a double bass, it rather ranks for me between double bass and, say, a cello (tuned in fifths rather than fourths, I know). A lot of Macca's bass lines are reminiscent of cello lines in my ear. Bass lines as widely diverse as what Chris Squire played/plays in yes and what Bernard Edwards played in Chic are unplayable on a double bass.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: patman on January 09, 2015, 07:48:57 AM
I like earlier recordings of Jaco through Weather Report and before his descent into mental illness...

Like it or not, "Heavy Weather" is a classic...and Jaco's playing is revolutionary.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: amptech on January 09, 2015, 08:11:06 AM
I'll continue my live/studio observations here; Jaco may be boring and complex on studio albums, but 8:30 (live album) is another great example of how his sound and energy was an important part of the band's puch. I've heard Jaco live stuff that has both raw energy, liveliness and sloppiness (before he was ONLY sloppy and doped out).  Not as sloppy as Stanley Clarke perhaps, but I think that an audience impacted his playing in a good way. I like the Black Market studio album as well. Jaco studio album, no thanks.

And early Stanley Clarke, good sounding stuff. Sloppy, pretentious, energic, and fuzzy. Great! In fact, Wheater's 8:30, RTF's no mystery,
Al Di Meola's Casino, Allan Holdsworth's I.O.U. and Jack Bruce's songs for a tailor - those are the 5 album's that took me away from the basic rock bass thing. Lots of bass solo's here, but they have a good sound of it's own - good music. I always continued to enjoy the rock element though, wheter in prog rock, space rock or just rock'n'roll. I still put AC/DC on the player if I throw a party (and there is not only male musicians invited)
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: patman on January 09, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
Black Market is definitely a personal favorite.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on January 09, 2015, 09:26:56 AM
I like earlier recordings of Jaco through Weather Report and before his descent into mental illness...

Like it or not, "Heavy Weather" is a classic...and Jaco's playing is revolutionary.

Absolutely no dissent here. Heavy Weather is a classic. And Weather Report never had a bad bassist in their life, pre- or post-Jaco (or with him).
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: 4stringer77 on January 09, 2015, 10:24:48 AM
I've played Good Times on upright before. I'd be willing to bet NHOP could bust out Roundabout on his upright too.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 09, 2015, 11:50:09 AM

Many people seem to think that an electric bass guitar is the electric version of the double bass and should fill the same role. [snip]
The electric bass GUITAR, otoh, has different options, gives different opportunities...

Good points.  They are definitely two different instruments with two different sets of possible playing techniques. As a result, they are different in terms of the musical sounds they can produce.

That doesn't change my own personal preference for the style in which I play and prefer to hear.  Just because something is possible to play on an instrument doesn't mean it will appeal to all listeners, nor even that it's a good idea.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: westen44 on January 09, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
In looking over my opening post, I feel I might have not been articulate enough in trying to make my point.  In referring to holding down the bottom, I was simply stating my preference for the bass to sound powerful and deep, providing a meaningful foundation to the music itself.  Sometimes I see people say a bass should "play in the pocket," not try to get too fancy, serve the song, etc.  Those things may have their place from time to time, but I don't view the bass as something that plays a secondary role.  My favorite bassist Jack Bruce is the best example of what I like to hear from a bass. 

As for solos, when I say I don't like them, I am primarily referring to the wanking that I hear too much nowadays when people pick up a bass and start to play.  Go to any music store, listen to people trying out basses, and you can hear what I'm talking about.  I don't mean solos can't have a meaningful place in a rock song from time to time.  On a personal level, the best example I can think of was the bass solo Rinus Gerritsen played to introduce "Radar Love" when I heard Golden Earring play near Rotterdam in 2013.  Rinus is probably not going to be classified as being on the Jaco level, but I enjoyed that particular solo tremendously.  It's easy to understand why Steve Harris has stated that Rinus is one of the few people he has ever heard who can play a bass solo he would want to listen to.  That doesn't mean that it's going to turn out perfect every time, of course.  But in this particular instance, it was a pleasant surprise.  I do think, however, that this is the kind of thing which is by far best experienced in person.  You're not going to find anything like that on YouTube or even on a Golden Earring recording.  For one thing, it's unlikely you're going to find a 2 minute bass solo on most recordings.

Edit:

I've mentioned some of this before in a post from more than a year ago (about seeing Golden Earring, etc.)  But mentioning it again was intentional to try to illustrate my point.   
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: 4stringer77 on January 09, 2015, 01:12:57 PM
Jack could solo. Sweet profile pic Westen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJpe0sTUrZw
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: westen44 on January 09, 2015, 02:39:36 PM
Jack could solo. Sweet profile pic Westen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJpe0sTUrZw

Great song.  I could listen to something like that all day.  As for the profile pic, a friend got really upset when the BBC didn't mention anything about Jack Bruce's death when they were summing up 2014.  (He is an American living in Europe.)  So in protest he decided to get some kind of Jack Bruce tattoo.  He asked me for ideas and I came across that JB painting on an art site.  He is going to stick with something simpler, but anyway, that's how I found it. 
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: slinkp on January 09, 2015, 08:36:27 PM
Pah, that's nothing! In the 80ies, our drummer would drum on the strings of my Kramer bass (an alu neck gives you confidence for this kind of thing) while I would move chords around. It sounded like machine gun slapping - eat your heart out Mark King! - and the audience loved it everytime!  You can't get more "combined drums 'n' bass solo".  :mrgreen:

Tony Levin and Jerry Marotta did that on "Big Time"!  That was what Levin to invent those "Funk fingers" things he plays with sometimes.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Dave W on January 09, 2015, 10:10:16 PM
My point was, if it's played on an instrument tuned to bass frequencies, it's bass, whether I like it or not. Whether it's a bass guitar, string bass, tuba, bassoon or anything else.

Also, I don't think in terms of whether the bass part serves the song or not; what does that even mean? Either it sounds right to me in context, or it doesn't.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: gweimer on January 10, 2015, 04:51:41 AM
In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it could have been a Jazz - nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old ... definitely pre-C.B.S.

And God looked down upon it and saw that it was good. He saw that it was very good in fact, and couldn't be improved on at all (though men would later try.) And so He let it be and He created a man to play the bass.

nd lo the man looked upon the bass, which was a beautiful 'sunburst' red, and he loved it. He played upon the open E string and the note rang through the earth and reverberated throughout the firmaments (thus reverb came to be.) And it was good. And God heard that it was good and He smiled at his handiwork.

Then in the course of time, the man came to slap upon the bass. And lo it was funky.

And God heard this funkiness and He said, "Go man, go." And it was good.

And more time passed, and, having little else to do, the man came to practice upon the bass. And lo, the man came to have upon him a great set of chops. And he did play faster and faster until the notes rippled like a breeze through the heavens.

And God heard this sound which sounded something like the wind, which He had created earlier. It also sounded something like the movement of furniture, which He hadn't even created yet, and He was not so pleased. And He spoke to the man, saying "Don't do that!"

Now the man heard the voice of God, but he was so excited about his new ability that he slapped upon the bass a blizzard of funky notes. And the heavens shook with the sound, and the Angels ran about in confusion. (Some of the Angels started to dance, but that's another story.)

And God heard this - how could He miss it - and lo He became Bugged. And He spoke to the man, and He said, "Listen man, if I wanted Jimi Hendrix I would have created the guitar. Stick to the bass parts."

And the man heard the voice of God, and he knew not to mess with it. But now he had upon him a passion for playing fast and high. The man took the frets off of the bass which God had created. And the man did slide his fingers upon the fretless fingerboard and play melodies high upon the neck. And, in his excitement, the man did forget the commandment of the Lord, and he played a frenzy of high melodies and blindingly fast licks. And the heavens rocked with the assault and the earth shook, rattled and rolled.

Now God's wrath was great. And His voice was thunder as He spoke to the man.

And He said, "O.K. for you, pal. You have not heeded My word. Lo, I shall create an soprano saxophone and it shall play higher than you can even think of."

"And from out of the chaos I shall bring forth the drums. And they shall play so many notes thine head shall ache, and I shall make you to always stand next to the drummer."

"You think you're loud? I shall create a stack of Marshall guitar amps to make thine ears bleed. And I shall send down upon the earth other instruments, and lo, they shall all be able to play higher and faster than the bass."

"And for all the days of man, your curse shall be this; that all the other musicians shall look to you, the bass player, for the low notes. And if you play too high or fast all the other musicians shall say "Wow" but really they shall hate it. And they shall tell you you're ready for your solo career, and find other bass players for their bands. And for all your days if you want to play your fancy licks you shall have to sneak them in like a thief in the night."

"And if you finally do get to play a solo, everyone shall leave the bandstand and go to the bar for a drink."

And it was so.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: gweimer on January 10, 2015, 05:27:55 AM
I've never been much of a Jaco fan, viewing him as more technique over substance.  I'll take Jamerson any day, and some of his bass lines inside songs are solos in and of themselves.

Some of my favorite bass intros/solos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNJqVW2L5is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5HwyXYRN1w

And then, there's this (start at 6:10), which made me notice Paul Goddard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Au1EaCb-0
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: 4stringer77 on January 10, 2015, 07:40:59 AM
That's some great flat picking from Paul!
The Gutter Cat Vs. The Jets tune reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki5KsuP3mzM
Another great intro from Eric Avery. Great bassist who didn't have to solo to stand out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmvG2GZ3S7o
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: nofi on January 10, 2015, 09:55:32 AM
i agree with rick on the abg thing.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Father Gino on January 10, 2015, 09:45:02 PM
I just can't resist wading into this…

I think appreciation of all art comes down to: "I like what I like". One can come to appreciate things that one did not before due to more time, age, education, experience, phase of the moon, whatever. I'm not overly fond of solos of any instrument when they cross the line into wanking. What is or is not wanking to me is a fine line that I define for myself and it constantly and momentarily changes depending on my whim. The worst wankers by far play them six stringed geetars.

Who cares what you call the thing that's being wanked? It's a bass, it's a guitar, it's a Tuba. Wanking is Wanking.

The electric bass  guitar is not even 70 years old. It's intended function was to mimic an upright. It's evolution in the hands of players soon left that limited, intended function behind and changed the face of popular music. Every step of that evolution was reviled by some and praised by others and it's no different now. If no one had gone outside the envelope with the bass guitar, we'd all be dreading playing Hold Tight, Hold Tight every night instead of Mustang Sally.

Jaco was a phenomenon in my mind. The first time I heard him with Weather Report I wasn't even sure what instrument he was playing. I think he mastered alternate possibilities of his instrument in an amazingly short time and put a big dent in legitimizing it in the minds of the snooty jazz world. Good for him.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: mc2NY on February 04, 2015, 08:35:33 PM
There are two (2) bass solos that makes it for me. As mentioned earlier on, My generation, of course. The other is Chris White's opening, and middle short bass part in The Zombies She's not there. I don't crave more! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBRc8zNQ30

I wouldn't classify Chris White's part as a "solo."  it is the musical hook of the song. The arrangement just happens to have the song begin with it, like "Dock of the Bay" by Otis Redding.

The Zombies had some great singles. Way ahead, musically, of most of their Brit peers of the era.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Hörnisse on February 04, 2015, 08:50:53 PM
(http://i60.tinypic.com/125qk5t.png)
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on February 05, 2015, 06:24:13 AM
I know it's a running joke that people don't like bass solos, but in my experience it is simply not the truth. People like bass solos - the less muscially experienced they are the more because they find it revelatory to focus on a bass (they can't really single it out in the music). I've heard that so often from people who are just off and on music listeners: "Oh, that sounds really melodic, never knew you could do that on a bass".  And the percussive slap style bass solo (despised by many here and I'm not a fan either) is always a crowd pleaser, especially with women. I have my theories about that ... they all think "if his thumb can do that to a bass and eleicit these tones, the possibilities of what he could do ...". Are endless of course, fill in the blank spaces!  :mrgreen:

In my experience bass solos top guitar solos and drum solos in popularity and are only beaten by keyboard/piano solos. I sometimes doodle for an hour or so and then Edith says: "That was really nice, it has such a calming effect." Same thing with my daughter, when she was a child there was a time where she would ask me to play bass when she went to bed because it made her find sleep better.

That's me, I'm great at either calming down women or putting them to sleep.  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Granny Gremlin on February 05, 2015, 06:37:51 AM
I was just going through old songs to find samples where I used some pedals I am trying to sell and I came across this one (Boss OD and Ibanez PH99 classic phase).  I've had people ask me 'what bass' about this one, including musicians/prospective band members (it's the thing other than the keys; nothing else there).  Minor fail I suppose, but I like it.

http://grannygremlin.com/dl/WeLove-JustDare.mp3
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Highlander on February 05, 2015, 10:02:57 AM
Sorry, but solos are somnambulistic moments for me, unless it is an integral part of the song, and I don't mean the self-indulgent all except the drummer walk off for a ciggie times either... imho...
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on February 05, 2015, 11:32:44 AM
I was just going through old songs to find samples where I used some pedals I am trying to sell and I came across this one (Boss OD and Ibanez PH99 classic phase).  I've had people ask me 'what bass' about this one, including musicians/prospective band members (it's the thing other than the keys; nothing else there).  Minor fail I suppose, but I like it.

http://grannygremlin.com/dl/WeLove-JustDare.mp3

Hey little punk, me like! Also the singer, talkin' about a revolution alright ...
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Granny Gremlin on February 05, 2015, 12:07:01 PM
You honour me.  Kinda making me rethink selling that Ibanez phaser that one.  We'll see after I give it's prospective replacement (Earthquaker Devices Grand Orbiter v2) a thorough comparative test drive tonight. 
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: Dave W on February 05, 2015, 06:31:11 PM
I know it's a running joke that people don't like bass solos, but in my experience it is simply not the truth. People like bass solos - the less muscially experienced they are the more because they find it revelatory to focus on a bass (they can't really single it out in the music). I've heard that so often from people who are just off and on music listeners: "Oh, that sounds really melodic, never knew you could do that on a bass".  And the percussive slap style bass solo (despised by many here and I'm not a fan either) is always a crowd pleaser, especially with women. I have my theories about that ... they all think "if his thumb can do that to a bass and eleicit these tones, the possibilities of what he could do ...". Are endless of course, fill in the blank spaces!  :mrgreen:

....

I remember seeing a video review of a local gig by Victor Wooten. As soon as he went into his atonal slap and pop routine, a bunch of yokels started whooping and hollering. It was about as unmusical as could be but they just ate it up.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: uwe on February 06, 2015, 03:52:03 AM
People like percussion (and that is what slapping essentially is), it's a primal tribal remnant in us all.
Title: Re: When is a bass not bass?
Post by: the mojo hobo on February 06, 2015, 11:02:10 AM
Primal Tribal Remnant

Now there is a great name for a band :mrgreen: