The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: ack1961 on October 03, 2011, 08:32:23 PM
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Ok, let's get the embarrassing stuff out of the way: A few years ago, I bought a Behringer BXL 1800A (180W) combo amp for my son.
I knew it was a mistake the minute I did it. I acted quickly & foolishly. I actually do love my son very much.
It didn't get all that much use, and I should have sold it when it was working.
Anyway, as you can all probably guess, the eventual rattling ensued, followed by the ceremonial speaker blow out.
This thing is no longer under any warranty, and Behringer tech support is not a viable option (the last thing I want to do is spend another $120 bucks to get the same piece of crap back).
Now, here's my question: Is there anything I can do with this thing? I'm no electronics wizard, but I should be able to put a decent speaker in there, correct?
The original is a 4 Ohm Bugera 12" aluminum cone. I was thinking that I could make it a decent keyboard amp or monitor, since it's wedge/tilt shaped.
I hate to throw away a ridiculously expensive (for what it is) amp without first asking you folks. If someone can tell me a decent match for a speaker, I'll give it a shot. I've included some specs below:
Instrument input ¼" TS
Input impedance 250 kOhm
CD input RCA
Input impedance 40 kOhm
FX INSERT RETURN ¼" TS
Input impedance 50 kOhm
Phones Out ¼" TRS stereo
Direct Out XLR
Output impedance 500 Ohm
Line Out ¼" TS
Output impedance 100 Ohm
FX INSERT SEND ¼" TS
Output impedance 2.2 kOhm
Power amp output 180 W @ 4 Ohm
Type 12" aluminum-cone
Impedance BUGERA™ Hard Attack Series
Model 4 Ohm
Power handling 120 W
Thanks,
Steve
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Find yourself a cheap 12" bass or fullrange speaker. You might want to opt for 8 ohms if you suspect the amp is bad too. I wouldn't spend more than $50 for the speaker and would think twice about that.
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The traditional response is "download WinISD and run the cabinet dimensions to see what you get."
Unfortunately I've tried to understand WinISD and it might as well be Sanskrit for all it tells me.
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A few years back I bought a Behringer BX 1200 bass amp for teaching and practicing with.
Like this:
(http://www.musichousebari.it/images/offerte/Behringer_BX_1200_382_1.jpg)
It sounded terrible and was generally a bad amp. My son aged 4 at the time plugged a guitar lead into the output jack and plugged the other end into the input before turning the amp on. Short story, amp dead.
I decided that the best thing I could do is see the good side in that I no longer had to put up with such a useless piece of kit and move up to something real. I didnt even bother getting any one to check it out.
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I'm no Behringer fan, but it can't be that bad... I do hate aluminium conus speakers. I would go for PBGs option. Buy a normal 12" speaker, as cheap as possible, and maybe you've got a nice practice amp or monitor indeed.
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Yeah, I think it'll be a waste to at least try out another speaker in there. Maybe make it something usable (like a monitor for the drums) without spending a lot.
I believe the amp section works fine, so I'll just look for a 4 Ohm 12" bass speaker somewhere.
Psycho's reply about using an 8 Ohm speaker kinda baffles me (which isn't hard) - I was under the impression that since the Power Amp Output was 180W @ 4Ohms, that I had to match that with a 4 Ohm speaker.
Thanks,
Steve
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Psycho's reply about using an 8 Ohm speaker kinda baffles me (which isn't hard) - I was under the impression that since the Power Amp Output was 180W @ 4Ohms, that I had to match that with a 4 Ohm speaker.
Thanks,
Steve
>>You might want to opt for 8 ohms if you suspect the amp is bad too.<<
Meaning if you wuz gonna use the combo box as a cabinet ONLY, an 8 ohm speaker is more compatible with more amplifiers. Generally speaking, a little more common as well.
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If you think the amp might have something wrong with it, using an 8 ohm speaker will cause the amp to put out less power and give it a little easier time. If you don't want to take the time and effort to look for a speaker, a better route might be to just cut it down to a head.
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If you think the amp might have something wrong with it, using an 8 ohm speaker will cause the amp to put out less power and give it a little easier time. If you don't want to take the time and effort to look for a speaker, a better route might be to just cut it down to a head.
Or just pull an 8 ohm 12 out of another cab and see what it sounds like in the Behringer. Then you'd have a better idea of what it would sound like with very little time spent and zero dollar outlay.
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well, I do think it's just the speaker, as the amp works fine through the headphone out or the XLR DI out.
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well, I do think it's just the speaker, as the amp works fine through the headphone out or the XLR DI out.
neither of those goes through the power amp
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If you want to test the amp, pull the speaker and connect the + and - wire to another speaker. You can even use a speaker cable; plug one end into another cab and just touch the speaker wires to the contacts on the other end of the cable.
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neither of those goes through the power amp
Thanks...
Curious thing is that you would think if the speaker was blown or even "dead", I'd hear something/anything when powering on.
As one final test, I'm going to try house speaker leads to an old speaker as Pilgrim suggested below.
If I get nada, then it's not the speaker.
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If you want to test the amp, pull the speaker and connect the + and - wire to another speaker. You can even use a speaker cable; plug one end into another cab and just touch the speaker wires to the contacts on the other end of the cable.
The Bass amp speaker connections are soldered, so I pulled the speaker out of the cabinet, plugged in a bass and touched a pair of household speaker leads to the speaker terminals (on the solder joint). I can hear the bass over the house speakers, so I'm assuming that the Power Amp section works and the Bugera bass amp speaker is shot. To me, not knowing much about electronics, it's strange that I don't even hear a hiss from the bass amp speaker - not sure how a speaker goes completely dead.
Anyway, I think that's kind of good news. Since the combo amp has a few features, that I'm going to find a compatible speaker, and set the combo up next to my youngest son's drum kit. He can use the stereo RCA input for an iPod & metronome for practice and we'll be able to come in from the mixer and use the combo amp as another guitar/bass/vocals monitor as well.
Now I need to scour the Internet for a compatible speaker and I should be all set.
Thanks to all for the help.
Steve
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My understanding is a speaker is sort of a pickup in reverse. The two leads go to the voice coil which moves the cone back and forth making sound. Coil overheats, coil wire fuses or breaks and you don't have a circuit. That means the voice coil doesn't move and no noise. Similar to when a light bulb filament breaks or burns out. There's still a vacuum in the envelope but no circuit.
Glad you've got it sorted out. Have your son tear the cone off the Bugera, you'll probably see where it failed.
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it's strange that I don't even hear a hiss from the bass amp speaker - not sure how a speaker goes completely dead.
It's quite likely that the amp simply overpowered the speaker and destroyed it. According the specs you posted, the amp puts out 180 watts into a 4 ohm load, and your blown 4 ohm speaker was only rated for 120 watts. When a speaker is damaged by too much power, its voice coil is literally cooked and melted and the speaker is completely useless. In simple terms, the amp doesn't get as loud as its ratings imply and it has been used at and above its limitations and that blew out the speaker. Behringer's aluminum speakers are especially prone to damage, and odds are that it's power handling figures are inflated anyway, since most of Behringer's ratings are fudged anyway. The good news is that the amplifier itself it probably fine.
Now I need to scour the Internet for a compatible speaker and I should be all set.
Here are some decent 8 ohm speakers:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-118
http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=genem&Product_Code=01-804&Category_Code=B-Alpha-100W-200W
and here is a 4 ohm model:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-332
Don't worry about tuning or any of that garbage; you're just replacing a cheap crappy speaker with a better cheap speaker.
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PBG, might it be better to use an 8 ohm speaker to avoid exceeding the rated power handling capacity of the 4 ohm or wouldn't the amp like that?
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My understanding is a speaker is sort of a pickup in reverse. The two leads go to the voice coil which moves the cone back and forth making sound. Coil overheats, coil wire fuses or breaks and you don't have a circuit. That means the voice coil doesn't move and no noise.
...exactly
Have your son tear the cone off the Bugera, you'll probably see where it failed.
The coil will be under the dust cover in the center and most likely the damage won't be visible.
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PBG, might it be better to use an 8 ohm speaker to avoid exceeding the rated power handling capacity of the 4 ohm or wouldn't the amp like that?
It's a toss-up. It doesn't matter to the amp, and its power rating is inflated anyway. To get rated power out of them, Behringer takes power measurements with its output transistors under looser regulation (biasing) than their max linear operation calls for. Their THD figures are atrocious.
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Thanks for all the great information and links.
I'll get a replacement speaker and get it going again.
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Thanks again for all the help and links.
I ended up getting the 4 Ohm woofer from Parts-Express (thanks, Psycho).
It took a little cabinet mod to get it in (it's just a pinch wider than the cutout), but it has solder-less connectors and it sounds great!
So, for like $60, I now have a great little monitor/practice station for the drum kit.
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Nice!!
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Yup, IMO it's worth putting $60 into that little combo.
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Win :)
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Win :)
Thanks guys - It has cool multi-functionality now, and I'm glad I didn't toss it out or set it ablaze. It's small footprint and tilt-back capabilities allowed me to put it behind his hi-hats and snare in our crowded little jam room.
@ Pilgrim
Last night, I bi-amped out the Crossover of my rig over to this combo - my kid drummer and I were just jamming a bit (trying out my new chinese 6-string). It actually sounds OK with this no-name speaker in there. Way better than stock.
I don't know what Behringer pays for the Bugera Alumi-cone POS, but they'd probably save themselves a lot of tech support calls and hate mail if they switched to something other than Alumi-anything. I realize that Behringer is the Yugo of the amp world, but they do make some nice entry level products (I like their Xenyx mixers).
Thanks again - this forum truly rocks.
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I don't know what Behringer pays for the Bugera Alumi-cone POS
"Bugera" is a fake brand name Behringer came up with for some of their musical instrument speakers and amps to try and sound like some kind of boutique. They are Bugera.
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"Bugera" is a fake brand name Behringer came up with for some of their musical instrument speakers and amps to try and sound like some kind of boutique. They are Bugera.
(sigh) I'm always the last to know...