The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Rickenbacker Basses => Topic started by: slinkp on February 06, 2021, 04:56:50 PM
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I thought this was pretty cool:
https://youtu.be/a59hpDjszH4
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Saw it. Nice and good vid!
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Speaking as a lifelong admirer of McCartney's bass playing - and assuming that most of us have listened to some isolated bass tracks off Beatles songs - I would like to raise the question: Why would anyone want to replicate the recording technique and/or bass amplification?
I owned a similar Fender bass rig, 1969 vintage, and it was downright awful. Had it been any good, Paul would still be using it, right? Like he still plays his old Hofner, Pyramid flats, Martin, Epi Texan, Gibson uke, etc.
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I think Paul uses just about anything that works!
I don't understand the nostalgia for old amp sounds and recording techniques either (the fabricated vintage sound of The Strokes debut drove me mad at the time, who wants muffled and distorted vocals?), but then is the craze for vintage instruments rational? (Of course, even bringing that up in question form is anathema to the eternal commandments of the LBO! :mrgreen: ) If you would have handed Paul an Alembic or a Kubicki at the Sgt. Pepper sessions, don't you think he would have immediately chosen that to record after figuring it out?
Paul doesn't need a Höfner to create lasting art, he did plenty fine when he played a WAL. He sticks to the Höfner because it is an iconic image with him (even people who can't otherwise tell a guitar from a bass, recognize a "Beatles bass" immediately) and it feels comfy to him - like a pair of worn-in shoes. When I last saw Paul in Berlin, his Höffie sounded fine, but the SG Bass of the blond guitarist who plays with him and sometimes picks up bass duties sounded definitely better, more tone, more sustain, a more even output across the fretboard. Nuff said (and heard).
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I get it, I would probably never record like that myself - maybe for a song or two at most, if it really fit something I was trying to do. But I love learning how old sounds were made, and I love the bass on Sgt Pepper, though it's far from "my" sound.
I find things like this fun and fascinating.
While going down the youtube bass rabbit hole I also much enjoyed this, quite different in many regards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAsfnv2pUPI
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I like both Levin's sparse, but distinct and melodic playing and the guy who does these vids (he does a lot of them, at one point he started wearing a glove with his fretting hand). He's infectiously enthusiastic and has a knack for explaining things. The kind of music teacher you wish your kids to have.
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If you would have handed Paul an Alembic or a Kubicki at the Sgt. Pepper sessions, don't you think he would have immediately chosen that to record after figuring it out?
He probably would but the fact remains that he still plays the Hofner. And it's a really special bass, and they could never find another that sounded quite the same. You plug it in and it sounds perfect.
He sticks to the Höfner because it is an iconic image with him (...) and it feels comfy to him - like a pair of worn-in shoes.
He also likes that it was so light weight, and that its tone gets better with time, likening it to a Stradivarius.
At least one reason he switched to the Ric was that it intonated well while the Hofner could not be intonated, which caused him to avoid going up the neck. This was corrected by Mandolin Bros when he started using the Hofner again by (so I have read) a partial refret in the correct locations.
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I think Paul uses just about anything that works!
I don't understand the nostalgia for old amp sounds and recording techniques either (the fabricated vintage sound of The Strokes debut drove me mad at the time, who wants muffled and distorted vocals?)
Interesting point!
My band plays (played?) psychedelic rock. There are endless nouveau psychedelic bands that go to a lot of effort to sound like garage rock recordings from the '60s. Vocals sent too hot to tape and then bathed in tape echo, drums clattering away as captured with a single overhead, bass a distant rumble, etc. It all sounds the same. My bandmates collect these sampler vinyl records from obscure indie labels and it is all songs from "The X" and "The Y", and it all sounds the same. Skinny guys dressed up like extras from Easy Rider making music that sounds like it was rejected from the Nuggets compilations. The game, really, is just to find "The Z"band and follow them on Instagram before any of the rest of us do it, then pretend to be a lifelong fan. Musical Top Trumps.
My band, to our credit, have taken a different approach. We record with technical prog metal guys who capture everything as carefully as possible. They will happily rack up twenty takes of a single bar of music to get one line of vocal sounding perfect. They will shave milliseconds from parts to bring them right onto the beat, or build guitar solos up from numerous takes, just to find the best performance of a three-note phrase. It is the opposite to just getting a general vibe down on tape. Our band has quite a dense sound, with layers of vocal harmonies, so you can either blur this stuff or try and mix it with a lot of definition and clarity.
In terms of psychedelic music, there is scope to be both musical Jackson Pollock and musical Salvador Dali. You can capture the frenetic chaos of something happening in real time, and try and get a flavour of this on tape. Or you can build these totally lucid, slightly strange soundcapes delicately, capturing every detail.
As for McCartney, I never understood the fanaticism in trying to deduce whether it was his Hofner, Rick or Jazz Bass on each song. They all sounded the same in his hands. He took a Rickenbacker and turned it into the same dull thump as his Hofner. The brilliance is in the bass lines he composed not the gear; he was cooking with little more than flour and water when it comes to his tone.
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I read a McCartney quote to the effect that he liked the Ric better but people expected him to play the Hoffner. . . maybe 15 years ago.
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I read a McCartney quote to the effect that he liked the Ric better but people expected him to play the Hoffner. . . maybe 15 years ago.
IIRC he retired the Ric and switched over to a Yamaha and then a Wal long before he dusted off the Hofner.
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As for McCartney, I never understood the fanaticism in trying to deduce whether it was his Hofner, Rick or Jazz Bass on each song. They all sounded the same in his hands. He took a Rickenbacker and turned it into the same dull thump as his Hofner. The brilliance is in the bass lines he composed not the gear; he was cooking with little more than flour and water when it comes to his tone.
I appreciate this point. Many of the great guitarists and bass players sound very consistent to me. They may have changed instruments a number of times, but that doesn't mean they sounded significantly different.
With a combination of fascination and incredulity, I have read many discussions of "which bass did X play on Y recording," usually "cuz I wanna sound like that." Most of the time I can't hear anything different between the recordings, so I'm not sure why it's important. The Ox sounded like the Ox on every recording I've heard, and so did JPJ, the Duck, John Lodge of the Moody Blues, and Tommy Shannon with SRV. Maybe there are recordings of theirs I haven't heard in which they sound radically different, but I haven't heard them.
I'm cool with people deciding to get whatever bass one of their heroes or most liked players uses, but I think most of us sound like ourselves no matter what we play. I know that I do. I don't have a "sound" or "tone" (a word I don't like), but I set up so it sounds good to me with whatever amp and speaker I'm using, and that comes out pretty consistent.
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IIRC he retired the Ric and switched over to a Yamaha and then a Wal long before he dusted off the Hofner.
And he was forthcoming about his motivations. I remember an interview in a guitar mag where he was asked why he switched to the Yamaha and he quipped: "Because they gave it to me for free. Hey, anybody who gives me a free bass, is my man!"
I just love Macca for comments like this.
He is on record for saying that the Höfner simply guides him into playing differently than on any other bass. That I understand. Sometimes it's not the possibilities of an instrument, but its inherent limitations that inspire you.
And to me, this is not only the most joyous and bubbling bass line emanating from a Ric, but played with any bass ever. And it sounds like one inspired happy-go-lucky Macca first take.
https://youtu.be/ap87QgZKTNw
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I think it's clear to most people that a part of his style was there, because of the Höfner. The small, narrow neck and the short sound makes you play a lot of notes. I played a Line6 Variax Bass in Höfner mode once. It sounded okay, but the big P-neck stops you from playing that way. Having said that, just buying a Höfner, doesn't make you as brilliant as Macca, as I experienced.
I think Paul really loves that bass. He stated in interviews many times how he likes it, how it's part of him and how easy it plays, so I don't think it's just a gimmick. His engineers love it too, as you can read in the big new gear/recording interview on musicradar.com.
Nick Wass of Höfner is a good friend and he visits Macca often and checks his basses. He also kinda assembled the vintage back up bass, cos it was hard to find an old bass that sounds like Macca's. According to Nick it's much louder than any Höfner of the era. He also claims that Macca really likes to play the bass. Of course he should, cos Nick is employed by Höfner, but he always tells me like it is.
I saw Paul live. He plays the old Höfner three songs in a row without tuning and it sounds great! I always find it strange all Macca fans want old Voxes and Höfners, but nobody talks about Mesa/Boogie which Paul plays nowadays and on which he sounds better than ever.
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He extracts from that Höffie what can reasonably be extracted soundwise. On his studio recordings since the Millenium, I don't really hear a lot of Höfner sounds, so it's probably safe to assume that it is mainly his live instrument.
But he looked good with the Ric too. Paul was about 5'10.5" in his prime (just below 1.80m for those brought up with a less archaic measurement system), reasonably tall for a Brit raised and fed on his island in the less than protein-affluent post-war 40ies and 50ies of the last century. Visually, I prefer a "larger than a Höfner" bass on him.
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I must admit I never liked his Ric tone. It always seemed to me like he was forcing it into being a Hofner, he even went as far as modifying it with a zero fret. He took all the life out of a brilliant bass.
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One of my favorite "Paul on a Ric" bass parts. On a Denny song...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgrG8XURuP4
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And to me, this is not only the most joyous and bubbling bass line emanating from a Ric, but played with any bass ever. And it sounds like one inspired happy-go-lucky Macca first take.
It is joyous. Slightly mind blowing to see the live video of that and watch his picking hand go up and down, down at the bridge on his bass. It sounds like finger-style playing, and all done while singing!
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His last couple of albums were recorded with the Höfners!
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A friend of mine lives in Canada for ages. He first left The Netherlands for London to join a Beatles tribute band and now he has his own very succesful Wings tribute in London, Ontario, Canada.
http://themccartneyyears.net/
Recently he bought a left handed Ricky and he swapped from right hand playing to left hand playing. Piano makes no difference and on guitar he is still right handed.
Check this band cos it's very, very good!
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It's certainly not a typical Ric sound in a Roger Glover (deep) or Chris Squire/Geddy Lee (bright) sense, but it has its appeal. He accentuated the mids and it's a bit boney-sounding (SLS doesn't sound like flatwounds to me), maybe that is also why he was later on attracted to a WAL.
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It's certainly not a typical Ric sound in a Roger Glover (deep) or Chris Squire/Geddy Lee (bright) sense, but it has its appeal. He accentuated the mids and it's a bit boney-sounding (SLS doesn't sound like flatwounds to me), maybe that is also why he was later on attracted to a WAL.
I think the Wal move was because he went through a Geddy fascination period 8)
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But didn't Circus magazine resolve that? Back in the early 80ies they did a spoof feature on Geddy Lee and Paul McCartney, declaring Macca the better bassist. Rush devotees (never the most humorous bunch) were enraged und wrote letters, but Circus did not budge, adding fuel to the fire "... besides Paul McCartney is richer!" , which provoked another letter onslaught. :mrgreen:
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But didn't Circus magazine resolve that? Back in the early 80ies they did a spoof feature on Geddy Lee and Paul McCartney, declaring Macca the better bassist. Rush devotees (never the most humorous bunch) were enraged und wrote letters, but Circus did not budge, adding fuel to the fire "... besides Paul McCartney is richer!" , which provoked another letter onslaught. :mrgreen:
I wonder what would happen if you told Rush fans that Burke Shelley is better than Geddy. :vader:
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But didn't Circus magazine resolve that? Back in the early 80ies they did a spoof feature on Geddy Lee and Paul McCartney, declaring Macca the better bassist. Rush devotees (never the most humorous bunch) were enraged und wrote letters, but Circus did not budge, adding fuel to the fire "... besides Paul McCartney is richer!" , which provoked another letter onslaught. :mrgreen:
I always think that Geddy Lee is what a beginner bassist thinks a good bassist should be like. Busy playing with a noisy, intrusive tone and mining out every possible harmonic complexity within a fairly harmonically limited stretch of music. I was once that beginner bassist, thinking it was cool to copy the vocal melody for two bars a fifth above, and tacking horribly florid turnarounds on the end of every four bar phrase. Just because I could see how it could work in the music I always had to do it.
I've never quite got my head around this dichotomy of Rush being this cult willfully obscure insider band that nobody has heard of, when you can buy their records in Walmart etc. Its stadium rock, a la Kiss, with some exotic percussion, opaque lyrics and the occasional unusual time signature or poly rhythmic kerfuffle. Some of their famous songs are a bit longer than Detroit Rock City, they wear kimonos and their singer sounds like an old woman.
As, as much as I love some of their stuff Rush is the worst of both worlds for me: The beard-stroking "you wouldn't understand it" snobbery of real prog rock combined with the sort of unreconstructed double-denim gropefest of Normal Rock.
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I wonder what would happen if you told Rush fans that Burke Shelley is better than Geddy. :vader:
The similarities are obvious. But Budgie were so obscure, I'm not sure Geddy ever got his hands on a Budgie record to be inspired. We'll have to ask him.
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But didn't Circus magazine resolve that? Back in the early 80ies they did a spoof feature on Geddy Lee and Paul McCartney, declaring Macca the better bassist. Rush devotees (never the most humorous bunch) were enraged und wrote letters, but Circus did not budge, adding fuel to the fire "... besides Paul McCartney is richer!" , which provoked another letter onslaught. :mrgreen:
I love this! Rush superfans are possibly even weirder then Rickenbacker fanboys. ;D I swear, some of them seem to think Rush invented MUSIC!
Having said all that, I don't think there's a "better" rock bass player than Geddy Lee. Busy? Sure, but it absolutely works within the context of the music (If you're not into that kind of music, I get it). Also, his Rickenbacker tone was spectacular in my opinion. I'm not a fan of his latter day Jazz Bass/SansAmp tone, and it's become pretty generic at this point with people rushing out to buy Tech 21 GL pedals/racks. I always liked that he's never been an "unaccompanied bass solo" guy too.
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And this JUST appeared in my inbox. ;D ;D ;D I'll shut up about Rush fans now...
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I've never quite got my head around this dichotomy of Rush being this cult willfully obscure insider band that nobody has heard of, when you can buy their records in Walmart etc. Its stadium rock, a la Kiss, with some exotic percussion, opaque lyrics and the occasional unusual time signature or poly rhythmic kerfuffle. Some of their famous songs are a bit longer than Detroit Rock City, they wear kimonos and their singer sounds like an old woman.
Alan, you're a riot! ;D You've just endeared yourself to Rush fandom worldwide! They're lighting the pyre as I write.
Did you ever consider taking up a job with Her Majesty's Foreign Service? All the repair work that would need to be done following your outbursts, lovely!
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Geddy is a fine player and his playing is idiosyncratic. It works well within Rush and both anchors and defines their music/sonic landscapes.
I have a hard time though imagining him coming up with a bass run to Silly Love Songs that is only a fraction as good as what Macca laid down. Has he or Rush ever played anything you can move your butt to? In all its angular complexity, Geddy's bass style is extremely limited.
But to me the weirdest instrumentalist within Rush is no doubt Alex Lifeson. I can wrap my head around what Lee and Peart (in fact the most "natural" player within the confinements of Rush) do, but Lifeson sounds - throughout all Rush eras - outright weird to me. He's like Pat Metheny playing with a hard rock bassist and drummer (both of them skillful, but essentially hard rock based).
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Old thread, I know, but I actually recorded there at Boulevard a few months back. Great room and great place to work. Even used that exact black Rick on a track instead of my Thunderbird and Precision. Similarly to the video, we ran a DI and then also mic'd up my Sunn 2000s or Hiwatt DR103 and 2x15 cab. Different mic and not spaced quite that far out, and then through those same compressors. Came out really great! Having not played a Rick in a few years, it definitely prompted me to pick one up again (or at least a Greco clone)!
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That must have been a blast. Got any sound samples of the work you did there?
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That must have been a blast. Got any sound samples of the work you did there?
Not yet unfortunately, waiting for the mastering to be completed, but I'll post something when the tracks are released! It was a great experience, we tracked it live, with the amps in isolated rooms and the guitar and bass in the room with the drummer.
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He's like Pat Metheny playing with a hard rock bassist and drummer (both of them skillful, but essentially hard rock based).
I totally agree. For all the attention the other guys got over the years, I think Alex may be the most accomplished musician in the band. That's not to belittle the incredible talent and skill of the other two either, it's just that Lifeson is that good.
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Sadly, the studio this was recorded at, Boulevard Studio, had a bad fire last month. Live room was undamaged, but the control room was just about destroyed by heat and smoke. Hoping they can build back up and reopen, already contributed to their gofundme.