The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: Basvarken on December 10, 2009, 02:08:01 PM
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Last summer I took up an old plan of mine to see if I could build my own bass. I have no experience whatsoever on the craft of lutherie.
So I looked around if there was some sort of course I could join. And there happened to be one only a few miles from where I live.
So I started drawing and sketching the ideas I had.
It is going to based on my favorite bass. But it has to be different, because I don't need another bass that is the same. ;D
So this is what I came up with:
- Shortscale bass shaped like a Les Paul (surprise) ;)
- Mahogany body with a contoured bookmatched flamed maple top.
- To save some weight, the upper bout of the body is chambered and there is a Rickenbacker-ish F-hole.
- Mahogany neck with a volute at the topnut.
- The truss rod will be accesible by unscrewing the two 24th fretmarkers and lifting the last two positions of the fretboard.
- At the neck there will be two G3 single coils.
- At the bridge there is going to be an Artec AlNiCO mudbucker.
- At the upper horn I've planned a 6 way rotary switch that allows me to choose:
• neck G3 pickup,
• middle G3 pickup,
• both G3's as humbucker,
• bridge Artec pickup,
• neck G3 pickup plus bridge Artec pickup,
• all 3 pickups.
- On the top side I will have one volume potmeter.
- On the back side I'm going to make a small hole in the control cavity plate that allows me to dial a hidden tone potmeter with a small screwdriver if desired. I will probably not use it very often. And I'd like to keep the top side clean.
- The bridge is a BaCHbird bridge with saddles notched at 17,5 mm stringspacing
I bought a tune-o-matic for bass first, but that one had the saddles spaced at 19mm (which I think is too wide for shortscale)
- And behind the bridge the stings are going to be anchored string through body. Because I always use heavy gauge strings on short scale basses, I made the distance on the E and A string ferrules a bit longer. This way I don't have any trouble with too thick string at the stringposts.
- The tuners are light weight Gotoh Res-O-Lites, with wide string posts.
(http://www.superfloor.net/zelfbouw.jpg)
It is going to be a very educational journey for me. And a few good lessons in patience (which is not my strongest point) :-[
The course is only once in every two weeks. And most of the time I have to wait because the tutor is helping some other guy.
Here's the thick log of mahogany that I cut out with the router using an MDF template that I made.
Plus a small beam of mahogany for the neck. I cut it with a sawbench from a big 30 year old log. You can see the blade ran hot... :o
(http://www.superfloor.net/body-en-halsplank.jpg)
Here's the body with the chamber in the upper bout where the F-hole will be.
Plus the rosewood fretboard. You can see I have yet to cut the last two fret slots.
(http://www.superfloor.net/routed-body-en-toets.jpg)
Here's the bookmatched maple glued together and roughly cut, ready to glue upon the mahogany.
I found the beautiful bookmatched pair at www.northridgehardwoods.com (http://www.northridgehardwoods.com)
Plus the fretboard cut to short scale (by cutting it off at the second fret)
(http://www.superfloor.net/bookmatched-maple-en-toets.jpg)
The pickups. The G3 pickups were bought from Greatdealz at Ebay. Originally I had in mind to turn them into a Thunderbird humbucker for the BaCHbird. But I never could bring myself to destroy these perfect NOS pickups. :-\
The AlNiCo mudbucker is an Artec. About a year ago a few guys on a Dutch forum got together and ordered a whole bunch of pickups straight from mr Sy Suk of the Artec Company. So I joined in, not knowing where to put it. But now I have a destination for this thing. I got the idea from that cheap-ass Stagg EB0 copy we discussed a while ago. They had the mudbucker straight at the bridge. Which is a bit too much. You only get "ploppy" sounds there. But I'm guessing a centimeter or two from the bridge should work just fine.
(http://www.superfloor.net/pickups.jpg)
The tuners. Gotoh Res-O-Lites. Kinda hard to find for a non-retailer like me. I eventually found them at a luthier from Slovakia www.sollerguitars.com (http://www.sollerguitars.com)
They are extremely light weight. I really prefer those over the small post Schaller tuners that Les Paul have usually have. Stringing extra heavy gauge long scale
strings on a shortscale bass can be a pita. Hence the wide stringpost tuners.
(http://www.superfloor.net/tuners.jpg)
The wrong bridge. A tune-o-matic style bridge for bass. Sold on Ebay as Les Paul bridge. A fine bridge really, but no use for this project because the string spacing is too wide.
(http://www.superfloor.net/wrong-bridge.jpg)
The body and top glued together and routed flush.
In the back the scarfed beam that will become the neck
(http://www.superfloor.net/gelijmdebody-en-gelijmdehals.jpg)
This project is going very s-l-o-w-l-y. And I have a long way to go.
But I will try to keep y'all updated if I make any progress.
For me this certainly is a great new hobby I found. I really like to spend hours and hours figuring out how to get it right. And to find the right components from all over the world.
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Wow, Rob... that's going to be a NICE bass! I love that so many people here are building. I won't be one of them for a while, but it's very inspiring to see these beautiful basses come into being. Thanks for sharing. I can't wait to see how it progresses!
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Nice Rob, that looks very nice. Be patient, i know how your feeling, i'm still workin on my Fbird and each time i work on it i just can't wait to finish it.
When i finish this one i'll start working on a Les paul too, i just love that shape
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Rob, looking great! Your kids must be getting older for you to have the time to do something like this :-)
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Very nice looking project Rob. Goodluck with it, I wish I had the patience, skill and time to attempt some of the concepts that are created by members of this forum.
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Very nice. It's ambitious for a first project, but it looks like you've done very well. It's nice to be able to get hands-on instruction in a class.
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Great work ! Very cool concept. I can't wait to see it done !
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That's going to be nice indeed!
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Congratulations on starting this bass! I began a luthier course here in Austin 2 weeks ago, which consists of a one-on -one, hands-on build of an archtop guitar. Having a great time and learning lots. Should have done this years ago!
Of course i wont walk out a luthier, but i will walk out having a hell of a jump start, as opposed to trying to learn on my own.
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That is really cool! Looking good so far, and I look forward to seeing it progress.
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Very cool, Rob!
Post your pics here too, birdie, as yours progresses!!
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What a cool project! Can't wait to see more progress shots.
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Very cool ideas! I wish I had asked my father to teach me his woodworking skills.
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Nice project Rob! You're really building something different here!
One thing about the G-3 pickups: they aren't a rw/rp set, so if you wire them in series you will have hum.
I don't know if it is possible to disassemble one of them to flip the magnet and invert the leads to make them a rw/rp set.
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Thank you guys.
@ exiledarchangel: When I bought them from Greatdealz, I explained my (initial) plan to turn them into a humbucker. So he sent me a reverse w/reverse polarity set. I tried it on my BaCH tele. No hum.
Check this older thread:
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=125.msg1736#msg1736 (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=125.msg1736#msg1736)
this is what the G3 humbucker sounds like (http://www.superfloor.net/G3pickup.mp3)
@ Aussie Mark: one of the reasons this project is going so slowly, is that I only have the evening hours when the boys are off to bed.
Plus I don't dare to go too far into territory unknown for me. So I have to wait two weeks if I'm not sure about something.
@ Dave: yeah I know it's kind of ambitious. I know there will be mistakes and disappointments. But so far so good ;)
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that's gonna be a killer bass, Rob and good luck with the build!
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that's gonna be a killer bass, Rob and good luck with the build!
+1
Very original looking bass Rob, i`ll be watching this one.. :popcorn:
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I think it's a great concept, and it looks like you're off to a solid start. I'll be interested in following developments!
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@ exiledarchangel: When I bought them from Greatdealz, I explained my (initial) plan to turn them into a humbucker. So he sent me a reverse w/reverse polarity set. I tried it on my BaCH tele. No hum.
WOW that is EXTREMELY interesting information!!! :D :D :D Thanx Rob!
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I like it too! Don't worry about being ambitious if you're willing to take your time, learn from your mistakes and accept the little imperfections you end up with. Experience is a wonderful teacher. Good luck, I think you have a really nice design and idea.
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Looks like you are doing a great job.
The only thing I wish I had done building was set up a "padded" area to work on & store the bass. I put a lot of dings & scratches just "working" & moving the bass around.
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That's a good one John. The body already has a few scratches and dents that I had rather avoided...
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I do not own a lot of tools other than the usual stuff you have at home for work in and around the house.
Here's one smart little device that I purchased for this project (and other future projects...)
It's an Ibex finger plane that violin builders use.
Beautiful piece of equipment. I tried it on a piece of scrap wood.
It's brilliant! The best 60 euros I spent in a long time :o
(http://www.superfloor.net/ibex.jpg)
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Looks kinda familiar! Me too iz movin slo... :mrgreen:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0917.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0920.jpg)
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Dang, that green is spectacular!
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:popcorn: 8)
I have a link for making a finger plane... not too hard if you have time on your hands...
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That looks like it's going to be a great project! Keep the pics coming!
I love planes, I have about 20 of them, most antique, some about 100 years old and I do use them.
As good as your new baby is it's probably not as sharp as it could be. It's been ages since I've looked for the article but try to google "scary sharp" - this is a process using a piece of plate glass and several grades of very fine sandpaper to hone blades - done correctly you'll wind up with surgical sharp blades :o
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I love planes, I have about 20 of them, most antique, some about 100 years old and I do use them.
What have you got...? anything as big as a Boeing...?
Curiously enough, Buzz, I have a few old planes (and assorted old woodworking tools) too, some as old as that... my maternal grandfather was a master carpenter, emigrated to Canada in the tens and ended up building railroads during the Great Depression (I have some wonderful pics he sent home to the family - classic depression pic-and-shovel-bridge-in-background shots...). Ended up a ship-builder in Brown's Yard on the Clyde; died when I was very young... I now have all that's left of his tools, along with some beautiful big planes...
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I collect Stanley planes. You need to send me some pics of yours - many English planes were "infill" planes made blocks of ebony or rosewood with high grade metal sides and soles - the right ones = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ However, if they are heirlooms they're pricelss.
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Will do... can't guarantee how soon though... they come into the latter category...
(damn... gonna have to clean them up now... make em look like they're cherished items... ;D)
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Along with the finger plane I bought this:
(http://www.baptist.nl/sitemanager/images/shopimages/prod1_557.gif)
Flexcut Gold Polishing Compound.
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That looks posh... (cue more research)
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Along with the finger plane I bought this:
(http://www.baptist.nl/sitemanager/images/shopimages/prod1_557.gif)
Flexcut Gold Polishing Compound.
Ah, high tech compound! Did you get a strop to use it on?
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No, I just use a sheet of cardboard.
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Looks kinda familiar! Me too iz movin slo... :mrgreen:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0917.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0920.jpg)
What happened to that bass?
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I hit a snag personally. Im comin around, I think. Thanx for askin . You were the inspiration for this & my moderne.I still think that Blues hawk is a marvelous piece of creativity. It inspired the crap out of me at a time I needed inspiration. I hope to werk on it this winter. Is it snowin in upstate ny? Doc , is the lawn white? :mrgreen:
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No, I just use a sheet of cardboard.
??? Cardboard? Is this something the manufacturer suggested? Any piece of rough leather will work as a strop - the rough side of an old belt will work fine.
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The man in the woodworkers store told me that. He showed me how to sharpen the Ibex using that FlexCut polishing crayon on a piece of cardboard.
It's cheap and it works ;)
He also had this Slip Strop by FlexCut. Which I might buy if the cardboard doesn't turn out to be good enough
(http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/images/Flexcut-Slip-Strop-v2.jpg)
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If your plane has a flat blade you won't need the supper deluxe thing - just a piece of leather glued to a board. The deluxe thing would be cool if you had curved carving tools though - keepig those things sharp is a real bitch.
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The fingerplane that I bought is not flat. It is slightly curved.
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so the edge is curved but flat? Or is the entire blade curved like a shallow U?
So how is the carving coming - any pictures?
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I hit a snag personally. Im comin around, I think. Thanx for askin . You were the inspiration for this & my moderne.I still think that Blues hawk is a marvelous piece of creativity. It inspired the crap out of me at a time I needed inspiration. I hope to werk on it this winter. Is it snowin in upstate ny? Doc , is the lawn white? :mrgreen:
Yep, the lawn is white! Been off line a couple days!
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so the edge is curved but flat? Or is the entire blade curved like a shallow U?
So how is the carving coming - any pictures?
The blade itself is flat but the edge is curved.
Hope you can see it in this pic
(http://www.superfloor.net/ibex-sole.jpg)
haven't done any carving on the actual body yet. Still practicing on pieces of scrap ;)
In the meanwhile I did make some progress;
Routed a control cavity
(http://www.superfloor.net/control-cavity.jpg)
and shaped the headstock (roughly)
(http://www.superfloor.net/headstock.jpg)
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Looks like you're making progress and everything looks fantastic - keep the pictures coming!
Now I see what you are talking about on your plane. That curved blade will take an experienced hand to sharpen and even with the compound planing all that maple will dull the blade. Several of the woodworking shops here will sharpen your blades for a small charge. I've just sharpened straight blades myself not having any curved blades.
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That bass is going to be beautiful.I have always wished that my 69 LPB was lighter..
Thought about selling it many times, then I plug in it ;D
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I bought a Les Paul bass Tune-O-Matic bridge on Ebay. It turned out to have the wrong string spacing for my project.
Then I tried to find nylon saddles just like the ones on the original two point aka "Evertilt".
But they turn out to be as rare as hens teeth...
So I had to think of something else.
I realised that the bridge on my BaCHbird had a bridge very similar to what I had in mind. And more important: with un-notched saddles!
Traded the Tune-O-Matic bridge for a BaCH bridge with notched saddles with Peter (from the Tractor and Jazzbird).
Put the notched BaCH bridge on my BaCHbird.
And then took my own BaCH bridge and filed the notches in the right place for my desired string spacing.
(http://www.superfloor.net/right-bridge.jpg)
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Necessity is the mother of invention.
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I thought Frank Zappa ;D
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Naw, quite often necessity is just a mother.
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I bought a Les Paul bass Tune-O-Matic bridge on Ebay. It turned out to have the wrong string spacing for my project.
Then I tried to find nylon saddles just like the ones on the original two point aka "Evertilt".
But they turn out to be as rare as hens teeth...
So I had to think of something else.
I realised that the bridge on my BaCHbird had a bridge very similar to what I had in mind. And more important: with un-notched saddles!
Traded the Tune-O-Matic bridge for a BaCH bridge with notched saddles with Peter (from the Tractor and Jazzbird).
Put the notched BaCH bridge on my BaCHbird.
And then took my own BaCH bridge and filed the notches in the right place for my desired string spacing.
(http://www.superfloor.net/right-bridge.jpg)
Genious! If you were German, I'd call you MacGyver!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5Ftf11Dxpeo/R8hEbGr8iZI/AAAAAAAAB8Q/sncKOeiCIyg/s400/macgyver2rs.png)
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Finally some more progress:
I routed the truss rod slot.
And made some room for the truss rod bolt at the back side of the fret board.
I still have to cut off the last part of the fret board. I am going to use it as a "stealth" truss rod cover.
(http://www.superfloor.net/trussrodslot.jpg)
Next I will glue the fretboard to the neck. Then I can start shaping the neck.
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That's when the fun begins... ;)
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lookin' good, Rob!
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looking Great!
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Rob, how's it going? Any more pics?
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Not really the most resounding news.
I routed the hole for the switch on the upper bout.
Plus did some milling for the control plates.
(http://www.superfloor.net/routed-body.jpg)
And I glued the fret board on.
Which isn't exactly a succes... although I secured it with little blocks, that I nailed to the sides of the neck, it did shift about one mm to the left at the top nut.
Luckily I still have enough wood left to correct that, but it still bugs me...
(http://www.superfloor.net/fretboard-glued-on.jpg)
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I always drill two small holes in the center of two fret channels (3 and 15 typically) and secure the board with a couple mini metal pins. They pull right out afterward and the board never shifts.
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I always drill two small holes in the center of two fret channels (3 and 15 typically) and secure the board with a couple mini metal pins. They pull right out afterward and the board never shifts.
Yep, you can use one of the tiny numbered wire gauge size drills with a smaller diameter than the fret slot width (I think #74 and above).
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Yeah, that would have worked more secure than the method I used.
Or I should have sticked by the idea that I used once before:
That time I used simple staples that I cut off, so only the two sharp pins sticked out just enough to keep the fretboard in place once glued and clamped.
The only disadvantage of using staples is the fact that they forever stay there between the neck and fretboard.
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ED Schaefer showed me how to insert two small drill bits, into the first and close to the last fret, one at the left side of the fretboard and the other to the right- in the slot. This keeps the board firmly in place.
(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn170/birdie-55/DSC03362.jpg)
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The little mistake I made when I glued the fretboard on, turned out not being all that much of a problem.
I milled off the surplus on the sides of the neck. Now it is perfectly flush to the fretboard.
(http://www.superfloor.net/neck-plus-template.jpg)
Plus I made a template for the neckpocket.
That's all the progress I made in two weeks time... :-[
The lessons are only once in every two weeks. And it's 3,5 hours. Most of the time we (me and my fellow course participants) are talking about music... :-X
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Don't feel bad about the time, you have other obligations. It's coming along well, you'll get there.
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See, what's a mm among friends? It'll come out just fine!
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Thank you guys.
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That's coming along really nicely...
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Good news! I'm still jealous of you guys that get to take a class! ;)
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I'm jealous of you guys that have the patience and deft touch to be able to attempt this kind of work.
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I got plenty of time to practice patience.. :rolleyes: By the way, that bass is looking sweet!!
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I got plenty of time to practice patience.. :rolleyes: By the way, that bass is looking sweet!!
whats the name of the institution ? ;)
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I'm jealous of you guys that have the patience and deft touch to be able to attempt this kind of work.
I didn't know I had it in me either ;D
Patience is not my strongest point. And I'm putting it mildly...
Having said that; BaCH has been training that characteristic of mine too :rolleyes:
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whats the name of the institution ? ;)
"The velvet coffin" better known as Austin, Texas!
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Ahh yes I have a mate who travels there for a music festival each year. From his description I would love to see that.
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Ahh yes I have a mate who travels there for a music festival each year. From his description I would love to see that.
SXSW!? You ought to come along this year and roadie for him! You would have great time - Dave is just about 45 minutes south as well.
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I'd love to but he travels here because his Mum still lives here and then to Austin on his way back to his (now) home in the the UK. He has had quite a good career over there he tells me.
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That's gonna be awesome!
Rob
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Finally I can post another update 8)
I have made the neck pocket. It was quite a challenge getting the angle right, and getting the pocket deep enough. There were no router bits that are long enough... So I ended up cutting off a chunk of the heel.
But now that part is done. It's a perfect fit.
Haven't glued it in yet. I first have to shape the top of the body.
As you can see I need to make it even with the fretboard. Plus the contouring of course.
The cellotape is holding the last part of the fretboard where the trussrod cavity lies beneath
(http://www.superfloor.net/neck-in-body.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/neck-in-body2.jpg)
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Looking good!!
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Very nice! That's going to be one beautiful bass... 8)
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Very nice! That top is beautiful!
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Looking good.
I've seen people do the heel angle both ways. I've never had to do either, but if I did, I would angle the heel like you did if it were a deep pocket. Just seems easier to me. If it were a shallow Fender-type pocket, angling the pocket might be easier.
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I did make the angle in the pocket. Just as deep as the router allowed me to go.
The heel I kept straight. I just cut a straight chunk off. 8)
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Coming along nicely, Rob... quite the little carpenter on the QT... ;)
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Yeah baby, I dig it! Nice job!
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I did make the angle in the pocket. Just as deep as the router allowed me to go.
The heel I kept straight. I just cut a straight chunk off. 8)
D'oh! Okay, I get it now.
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Finally I can post another update 8)
I have made the neck pocket. It was quite a challenge getting the angle right, and getting the pocket deep enough. There were no router bits that are long enough... So I ended up cutting off a chunk of the heel.
But now that part is done. It's a perfect fit.
Haven't glued it in yet. I first have to shape the top of the body.
As you can see I need to make it even with the fretboard. Plus the contouring of course.
The cellotape is holding the last part of the fretboard where the trussrod cavity lies beneath
(http://www.superfloor.net/neck-in-body.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/neck-in-body2.jpg)
Funny but it kind of reminds me of your guitarists custom guitar.
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Now that you mention it.
Must be his bad influence on me, haha!
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That is a fine piece of craftsmanship!! Im a big fan if figured maple. I cant wait to see the finish. Im also anxious to see the carving
BTW, Kenny Five-O said he had a site to build your own finger plane.Any links?
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I am trying to find it, Shadow... it was on a link Doc (iirc) posted re "shopsmith" and I followed a link... I'll keep looking but I'm having PC issues so not working from my laptop (with the links-pit) ... ???
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amber tint would look nice on the top.
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Actually today I started working on the contouring.
Man, that is addictive. I worked three hours straight. I have a blister on my thumb now ;D
There's still a lot of carving to do. But it's a start.
Hope it shows in the pic.
(http://www.superfloor.net/contouring.jpg)
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looks beautiful! So, you're carving the top with that little thing? Damn..I carved the top of my guitar w/ a grinder and it still took me about 8 hours total. You're a brave man!!
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"....blister on my little finger..." some sort of lyrics from my past! That is gonna be striking!!wood working is adictive . I hate when I finish a project. In fact I always leave an unnoticeable un-finished part somewher. I know weird. what can I say. That way I can always go back to it , I guess.
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AH yes, carving tops, the next frontier for me. Haven't gotten to this stage yet in a project, but I am getting better with my chisels. Woodworking is really so much about practice IMHO! That top is really looking wonderful!
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or is it "blister on my thumb"...anyway I saw somewhere that you mark certain spots ( I think it was 5 or 6 down mid;6 around edges)on the sound board(both face & underside) ; shallow holes drilled down the center, deeper towards the edge towards binding edge. ,then on the under side, deeper holes down the middle then shallow holes towards the outer. It gives me a chill when I think about it.
the holes are depth guides that you carve to. It makes sense but have never tried it. Ill look for the book/article.
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In my case it's Thumb.
About the contouring; there are many ways that lead to Rome.
I made a template of the curve at the bridge where the highest point is.
I just work towards that template. And keep checking if the height at the sides is even.
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Lyrics...?
"Bandages come off today, really feeling sick... hardest part explaining, all those blisters on ma... nose..." (WUAS-ACG-1975)
Wipe over the surface and capture a shot before she drys out, Rob... that grain looks really beautiful...
"Dragonburst" contender...? or more trad...?
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"Bandages come off today, really feeling sick... hardest part explaining, all those blisters on ma... nose..." (WUAS-
I LOVE than album!
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Bought it day of release... ;D
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@ Kenny: Here's a shot of the body somewhere halfway the contouring process.
I wiped the body over with a damp cloth so the flame shows a little better in the picture.
(http://www.superfloor.net/wet-body.jpg)
This week I did the routing for the pickup cavities and drilled holes for the bridge posts.
(http://www.superfloor.net/routed-body-empty.jpg)
Just for the picture I put the pickups in plus the bridge.
Didn't push the posts in too far, because its a super tight fit.
You can see the routings for the G3 pickups are a little too wide.
But I'm going to make mount rings so those will cover that up.
(http://www.superfloor.net/routed-body2.jpg)
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Looking good Rob!!
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Yeah baby, nice!!!
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Cool, can't wait to see how it turns out!
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That IS looking great...
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I love it! ;D
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Been working on the neck profile.
It is almost where I want it to be.
And I sanded the body. But that ain't good enough yet. The flame tends leave a wavy profile on the top.
(http://www.superfloor.net/shapedneck.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/backside.jpg)
It is starting to feel like a bass guitar!
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Looking very good Rob
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:popcorn:
This is a great show... can't wait for the next episode...
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That just looks too cool! ;D Am having "issues" w/ my first bass build.....Guess if it was easy, everyone and anyone would do it, right?
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Been working on the neck profile.
It is almost where I want it to be.
And I sanded the body. But that ain't good enough yet. The flame tends leave a wavy profile on the top.
(http://www.superfloor.net/shapedneck.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/backside.jpg)
Looking great!
Have you thought about using a simple cabinet scraper to tame the flame? A scraper can be used instead of sandpaper and has the added benefit of not clogging the wood pores with saw dust and grit from the sandpaper.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19725
It is starting to feel like a bass guitar!
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Maybe that is an idea for the backside. For the contoured top it isn't very practical I guess.
I'm almost there with sanding anyway ;)
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Maybe that is an idea for the backside. For the contoured top it isn't very practical I guess.
I'm almost there with sanding anyway ;)
They maked them curved! Kind of like a french curve drafting tool. Before there was sand paper there were scapers - the beauty is that it shaves off whispy flakes of wood and you will be able to level wood - much faster than sanding. Talk to the guys that sold you your finger plane they'll set you up. And with a scraper you will not dull the flame.
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A french curve scraper would be ideal for this. But since you're almost there, I would save it for next time. It does take some practice to get the scraper's edge done right then some practice to get the hang of using it.
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Yeah, and be careful how you test the bur! Not saying that I needed stitches or anyting but I learned my lesson that once :-[
Yes they do take some practice but I mastered them faster than I did my rabbet planes.
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Nobodies lived until they've had at least an inch long splinter, and as for sharp blades... :vader:
My worst is a 3" 10 stitch job on the front of my thigh...
There's gotta be worse than that round here...
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Okay, it's been a while.
But now I finally made some progress that I can show in the photographs.
- Placed the Mother of Pearl position markers.
- Widened the fret slots. And hammered the frets in.
- Drilled some holes for the rotary switch and the volume pot.
- Plus holes for the string through ferrules.
(http://www.superfloor.net/frettedneck.jpg)
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Excellent...
What are you going to face the head with, and the inlay... a flying "varken"...? ;)
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Haha, yeah I thought about that.
Maybe I will. ;)
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... a flying "varken"...? ;)
+1
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What a beauty! :o
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Those staggered through-body holes for the ferrules are the shite! May have to borrow (steal) that!! ;) Bass looks beautiful, really.
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It's gorgeous Rob! You impress me!!! Great!
The bass has to be pink. Varken-pink.
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Varkens are not pink!
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_07ZCTLt21Co/SFd727buYsI/AAAAAAAAAxY/_9gXYJDrGsU/s400/flying_pig.jpg)
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BEAUTIFUL! I love it so far!
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Porsche once ran Le Mans with a pink 'pig' Porsche with all the body parts for a butcher written on it:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Porsche_917-20_Pink_Pig_Sau_1971_front_2009-03-14_A.JPG
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(http://images.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://nickmalara.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/flying_pig_logo.jpg&ei=53vYS5TyOoWoOPGg-K4G&sa=X&oi=image_landing_page_redirect&ct=legacy&usg=AFQjCNGvPZPUpRqrPdXDKu8FPnAiCCmbcA) (http://brandstack.com/gallery/brands/pictures/picture12599427477971.jpg)
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(http://www.superfloor.net/frettedneck.jpg)
That looks beautiful, Rob! Very impressive 8)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_07ZCTLt21Co/SFd727buYsI/AAAAAAAAAxY/_9gXYJDrGsU/s400/flying_pig.jpg)
A pearl flying pig like would actually be cool as all get out! Your project looks fantastic!
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Wow I can't believe it's been so long since I posted.
Here's what I've been up to:
I had left about one millimeter of the fretboard past the last fret slot. This way the last fret would fit nicely over the last millimeter and at the same time it would sort of obscure the small gap between fret board and trussrod cover. That trussrod cover being the last two frets on a piece of fretboard.
But that milimeter chipped off. So I had to fix it with epoxy.
(http://www.superfloor.net/trussrodcavity.jpg)
With trussrod cover in place! Looking good :-)
(http://www.superfloor.net/trussrodcover.jpg)
And I trimmed the sides of the body for the binding.
That was much more work than I had thought it would be...
(http://www.superfloor.net/routedforbinding.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/routedforbindingclose.jpg)
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Looking good!!
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You're a natural at this stuff!
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You're a natural at this stuff!
What bridge are you putting on it?
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This one:
(http://www.superfloor.net/right-bridge.jpg)
It's a BaCHbird bridge.
I needed a bridge with unnotched saddles, so I could set my own preferred spacing.
I tried to find nylon saddles like the Gibson two point bridge has. But I couldn't find those.
So I ended up using the BaCHbird bridge from my own BaCHbird. The first series of the BaCHbird had unnotched saddles.
(I traded another bridge I had for a newer BaCHbird bridge and installed that newer bridge on the BaCHbird)
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Wow Rob, that's very impressive! That bass looks so good, and I love the solution of the trussrod cover. Very clever.
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Very nice!!
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Coming along nicely...
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Another hurdle taken; the headstock faceplate and inlays.
I ordered a very thin Mother of Pearl sheet at a company from Australia
www.mopsupplies.com (http://www.mopsupplies.com)
And I bought an ebony face plate form the guy who is one of the teachers at the course.
Then I sent my design for the name and logo to a guy who is a customer of my Graphic Design studio.
He is a prototyping engineer with a CNC machine.
www.skillbizz.com (http://www.skillbizz.com) (we designed his logo)
So we spent an evening at the CNC machine trying to get the name cut out of the m.o.p.
But this stuff is so incredibly brittle it kept breaking before we cut one single character.
In the end we just engraved the characters and logo slightly in the m.o.p sheet
And at home I cut it -or rather punctured it- out. It still did break at a few places but I managed to put it together when I placed it in the very shallow chambers we engraved in the ebony.
(http://www.superfloor.net/headstock-inlay.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/headstock-brooks.jpg)
(Brooks is a translation from my surname Van Den Broek) ;)
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Nice... 8)
(boo... hiss... he bottled out of a flying pigoletto... ;D)
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Looks great!
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Very tricky job. Looking good Rob.
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Hey Rob, nice work, i've got a question: due to the tune o matic bridge, are you mounting the neck to the body with an angle between the two or are you going straight like on a 7ender?
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The neck will be glued into the the body under an angle. Just like the Gibson Les Paul Bass.
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Thanks, are there any way to calculate the angle or is there a standard?
Sorry to bother you with all these questions, but after finishing the Fenderbird i'm going to start on a 32" scale Les Paul and would love to use a TOM bridge.
Cant wait to hear that mudbucker in the bridge position
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I eyeballed it... Calculated the position of the bridge, then figured out the height of the bridge and compared it to my own Gibson Les Paul Bass. Next I used a long ruler to check the angle.
I made a template for the neckpocket and I placed it under the estimated angle. Then the router just followed that angle.
After that I worked the part of the neck that goes into the body to the precise height.
I'm sure there are more professional ways to do it. But this seemed to work for me ;)
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I use this web site4. It really works! Otherwise, I make mock ups or templates.
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I use this web site4. It really works! Otherwise, I make mock ups or templates.
Uh, got a linky?
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a descending angle (like in downgrades when i was driving is always in a percentage) ergo a 5% grade goes down 5 feet every 100 feet. trains very rarely climb more than a 2.5 degree grades. truck negotiate 5 to 7% grades on a regular basis although some can really make your backside pucker when you are trying to keep 80,000 lbs from becoming a runaway. i have managed to get down some grades so fast i had to kick it out of gear and i was geared out at 127 mph in my little Mack and 110 mph in my blue Peterbilt.
a neck angle can be calculated in the same manner. a 31.5" scale at 1 percent would be a .315" vertical drop or 1%. i would assume one would measure from the bridge and assume it being the level point.
a 2.5 percent drop would be 2.5 x .315 or .7825" from vertical off the hieght of the bridge to the level of the nut assuming of course the strings are a common height from said nut.
lay it out plugging in your scale length. level is level regaredless if it is measured at your bridge or off the body surface and don't drive trucks down your fretboard unless they are Matchbox or Hotwheels trucks with Jake Brakes.
get a conversion program and change percent to degrees.
i downloaded a convert program called "convert" made in 98, version 4.0.6.0 that is actually old dos programming. it comes in handy.
i can email it to you if you send me your addy via email.
FWIW a 2.5 degree angle is about a 2.77778 percent degree grade.
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I love the logo Rob, very nice! 8)
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Uh, got a linky?
Opps, I forgot!!! Here......... http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/Index.cfm
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Opps, I forgot!!! Here......... http://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/Index.cfm
Many Thanks! Some nice builds.
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Did the binding yesterday. The first attempt - two weeks ago- had failed. A combination of the wrong glue (not strong enough) and sloppy shape bending of the binding was to blame.
So I scraped the whole thing clean again and started all over.
I bent the binding as good as I could, using hot water to make it more flexable.
This time we used two component clear epoxy glue.
And lots of tape and a few bicycle tyres knotted together! 8)
(http://www.superfloor.net/bindingtyre.jpg)
So tonight -after 24 hrs to harden- I took off the tyre and the tape.
And I planed away the surplus of the binding above the edge of the body
(http://www.superfloor.net/binding.jpg)
The only place that still looks a little bit sloppy is at the lower cutaway. That was extremely hard to force into the right shape. Now there's a little gap in the curve towards where the neck meets the body.
(http://www.superfloor.net/gap.jpg)
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Difficult call, Rob... I have several flaws on the PC that I am willing to ignore as they will mean masses of re-working, but the overall fin will look fine, to me... it would not pass inspection...
Q. Do you want to peel and re-work, or tolerate a minor imperfection...? From the looks of the rest of the build, so far, you have little to worry about, unless you are an intollerant perfectionist with a massive inferiority complex... ;)
Could be possible to use a white infill or filler...?
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I have binding gaps all the time. I hate working with binding! But, in this case, I'd take a piece of match scrap maple, glue it in and sand it back. Would that work?
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I couldn't tell from the pic if you had scraped the bindings down yet. . . I'd try the Dr's prescription to save misery and it will be shadowed by the neck.
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Looking good with the new binding... is it wood, did I miss that?
I'll be a good boy now and go back and re-read.
I love watching this build, can't wait to see what's next.
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For my own mental notes:
Required equipment when glueing binding on to instrument body
1. Prepared body
2. Correct size Binding
3. Strong Glue
4. Tape
4. Two bicycle tyres?
You wacky Dutch, always with the bicycle theme.
Seriously though, brilliant job Rob. So far beyond what I'm capable of.
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Thanx guys.
I am not going to worry too much. The gap really isn't that wide. I might try to fill it with dust and filler.
Plus I'm going to stain the top burgundy red. So I guess it'll be less visible because it's a darker color.
Oh and the binding is plastic. I used the very thick one (2.3 mm), which is why it was so hard to bend into shape.
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You wacky Dutch, always with the bicycle theme.
missed that... ;D
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Looking really nice Rob ;D
Don't sweat it, it looks just fine. Maple dust would be enough to fill it.
You just didn't get it perfect this time, the next one will be better for sure. And I know that YOU ARE going to build another one after this ;)
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Made some good progress this week.
drilled holes in the headstock. And made a slot for the (bone) topnut that I am going make later.
(http://www.superfloor.net/headstock-with-holes.jpg)
Drilled a hole in the side of the body for the jackinput.
(http://www.superfloor.net/jackinput-hole.jpg)
And... glued in the neck. And sanded the binding. Binding looks good.
I still have to sand away some more till the glue remains of the first binding attempt are gone.
(http://www.superfloor.net/neckjoint.jpg)
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Looking good!!!
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Looks great Rob. The pickup placement is going to be really interesting the sounds they yield.
The only thing I find uncomfortable about my Blueshawk is the binding. If I made another Blues hawk I would skip the binding and radius the edges for comfort. I love the look of binding though.
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Agreed and thirded... ;)
How did that gap filling go...?
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Man, that is going to be so damn cool!
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Looks great Rob. The pickup placement is going to be really interesting the sounds they yield.
The only thing I find uncomfortable about my Blueshawk is the binding. If I made another Blues hawk I would skip the binding and radius the edges for comfort. I love the look of binding though.
Yeah John, I tried the Stagg EB-0 bass with the mudbucker at the bridge. And it works just like I thought it would. The overbearing lows are tempered somewhat by the location at the bridge.
And the G3 pickups at the neck should give it some nice warmth in the tone. I may call in for help with the wiring when I get to that part.
I plan to use a 5 position rotary switch to create several interesting combinations ;)
The binding doesn't bother me at all with the "template" for this bass, my Les Paul Bass. I have my basses slung quite low (see pic) and my forearm doesn't rest on the edge. So I have no issues there. And I'm not going to make a belly cut either, as I don't have a belly (yet) 8)
(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_55dd26ee05f64885ad025a83161a097b.jpg)
@ Kenny: no gaps filled yet. What you see is the result of dust that got in the gaps when I sanded it. I'm not too worried about the gaps (anymore)
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Very nice! ;D
Did I miss this, or perhaps forgot already ???, what color is she going to be?
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And I'm not going to make a belly cut either, as I don't have a belly (yet) 8)
Wish I could say the same... ;D
Err... why aren't you glued to the box watching the footie...? oops, just realised you probably are as it's just about to kick-off... good luck... ;)
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what color is she going to be?
I had planned something like this:
(http://www.superfloor.net/zelfbouw.jpg)
I'm still in doubt wether I should make the F-hole or not.
I did make a chamber underneath the maple. But I kinda like it the way it is now without the F-hole...
ahhhhh...choices :-\
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I'd say: no F-hole! I think it looks better without, less is more. ;)
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Love the color - this will look killer! But I don't care for the F hole either - less is more in this case ;)
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Nay to the f- hole I say. Beautiful as it is..
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seems a shame to cover up that lovely bookmatched maple top. Are you thinking trans colour or solid? -1 against the F hole. Doesn't need it.
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Transparent of course! I didn't buy that striped maple for nothing ;)
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Is that body shape similar to an L5...?
There never was a bass version, was there...?
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The shape of this bass is a copy of the 1969 Les Paul Bass that I have.
(http://www.superfloor.net/LesPaulBass.jpg)
And roughly based on an idea that I had a couple of years ago when I was goofing around with Photoshop:
(http://www.superfloor.net/idealLPB-small.jpg)
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Trick of the light... either that, or a trip to the opticians is due...
Err... my wife's just reminded me it has been, for about 12 months now...
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It's been a while.
I spent two classes sanding the damned thing ;D
But now it's staining time!
first I stained the top with a dark oak colour. The intention was to bring out the flame in a subtle way.
(http://www.superfloor.net/dark-oak-stain.jpg)
I sanded this color back down so the flames were only accentuated very subtly.
(I forgot to take a picture of the top after I sanded it)
Then I stained it light red.
(http://www.superfloor.net/light-red-stain.jpg)
And while still wet, I stained it dark red.
(http://www.superfloor.net/dark-red-stain.jpg)
Then I did the edges once more to give it a very subtle burst effect.
Hope you can see it in the pic...
(http://www.superfloor.net/red-burst-stain.jpg)
I'm pretty happy with the result. I'm glad I did some tests on left over pieces of this maple before I started on the actual top. So it wasn't a big suprise.
The the next day I did the back and sides
First I stained them dark walnut.
(http://www.superfloor.net/dark-walnut-stain.jpg)
And then I stained it with yellow to make it a little more vivid, as the walnut is a bit dull from itself.
It now get a bit of a golden glow. And with the yellow stain I could even out the colour difference between the neck and the body.
(http://www.superfloor.net/yellow-stain.jpg)
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Very nice! That's going to really pop when it's clear coated.
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Bee
Yoo.
Tee.
FUL!!!
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WOW :o I really dig the way the finish is coming out!
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NICE!!!!!
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10/10 8)
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I couldn't wait to go to next class to start the finishing process.
So last friday I went and my mentor told me to put Glitsa parquet lacquer on first as a pore filler.
So I started painting the Glitsa. I noticed immediately that the Glitsa was smearing the stain all over the place. First I tried to deny it and went ahead, but at a certain point there was more denying... it was horrible. The top looked like a spotted pig.
I was livid! Why did that idiot tell me to put this stuff on??
He was so ashamed and he said he never saw it happen.
It turned out he only used this method on natural wood. Not stained wood... he forgot it is a waterbased laquer. And the stain is waterbased too.
So we started sanding the whole stain off. This was no sinecure because the maple is rock hard. We sanded three hours straight.
When I went home the top was almost clean. But I still had to do the back and neck.
So the next day I went straight back to the sanding and sanded for hours and hours.
Finally I got it 98% clean. Not all of the pigment was gone, but I decided not to worry anymore.
So now I could go back to the staining.
First the dark oak color again to bring ut the flame.
This time I spent more time on sanding this color back to bring out the flame.
(http://www.superfloor.net/sanded down oak.jpg)
Notice I sort of sanded a subtle burst at the edges.
Then I brought back the red in several stages.
(http://www.superfloor.net/secondtimedarkred.jpg)
It actually looks better than the first time!
The next day I brought on the first coats of clear laquer. I'm using acrylic high gloss laquer. Very cheap rattle cans from a store called Action. 2 euro per can!
I've seen results of fellow students at the course and the results look incredibly good with these cheap ass cans :o
Now it's beginning to look like it!
(http://www.superfloor.net/clearcoatback.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/clercoattop.jpg)
I'm very happy with the results so far. I'm sort of glad the first attempt failed, because this looks even better then the first one 8)
I can't wait to do some more finishing.
But first I'm off for Portugal! Yeeeeehaw!
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Serendipity... ;)
Enjoy the break...
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Last friday first time to get back on the project since the summer break.
The time consuming finishing process
sanding, spraying, drying, spraying, drying, spraying, drying, curing, sanding, spraying, ad infinitum... ;D
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100098/IMG_0406/web.jpg?ver=12837167840001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100098/IMG_0407/web.jpg?ver=12837167800001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100098/IMG_0408/web.jpg?ver=12837167880001)
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Looking good Rob
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Yeah baby! :P
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stunning! :toast:
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That is shaping up as one gorgeous instrument!
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+1
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I made good progress.
Yesterday I got to the point where I started to polish the bass. It shines like a mirror. Really cool.
But I did something really clumsy. While polishing I hit the top against something standing in the way. :sad:
It left a couple of very deep dents.
I tried to fill them with laquer but they remained visible.
I tried to sand them out.
But I sanded through the laquer hitting the bare wood. Now there's a lighter spot the size of a dime. :o
I sprayed a few layers of laquer to see how bad the discoloring is. It's there. I see it. Quite clearly.
I'm in dubio about what to do.
Sand the whole damn top blank again. Stain it again. And start the finishing all over again.
Or leave it. And accept the flaw.
(I know it will forever irritate me)
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Leave it Rob,
i bet nobody (beside from you) will notice it. It's a self and handmade instrument, not a cnc job. Sooner or later you will hit other things and new marks, dings and cracks will keep coming, thats life. You will remember the origin of every and each of them through the time....man, i am one mean philosopher.
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Redo it. Its a lot of work but like all of the best things in life, its the going back and doing it until its right that makes you good at it.
No regrets.
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Yep, I'm leaning towards that option Bret.
But thinking about it gives me a headache...
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Wire it, string it, play it. Then see how you feel. My guess is you'll say, "That works...next!" After a few more builds you may want to come back to it.
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leave it. first gig you would probably hit a cymbal stand and do the same thing...
Looks GREAT !!!
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Ditto! string 'er up and beat on her. Go back to it in a year and see how you Feel . Everything I build, I have this happen to me. Table ,chair, bed, couch, guitar they all have purposeful defects that only I can see. I make functional things , as a hobby, to be used, appreciated & then possibly admired by someone. If you are hanging it in a gallery then yeah ,refin it! Otherwise you will" F" something else while tryin to fix the 1st "F" up.
The fact it bothers you is good .We are human & it proves we have flaws. :mrgreen:
Absolutely stunning job ,BTW
...that reminds me I have a S1 bass project with 3 singles like a Grabber. the body is done but I have to re route the top cuz the wires dont fit under the PG. I know Im going to make a mess of the finish . Id rather start with a new plank of maho!
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Don't forget, you can only re-sand so much before the top starts getting thinner than you might want. At least, that's what I've heard. Having never done that myself, naturally.... ;)
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I'm going to post a pic of the Peter Cooks' "orange peel" skin and tell you to stop being such a drama queen - I already have several dents and a few complete removals of fin (handy what a red permanant marker can do)
Answer me this - are you gonna play her or but her in a glass case, backlit with subdues lighting, to get just the right hue of trans red... hmm...?
So tell me this, Robeo, are you gonna take the Rockin' Red pill or the Bitter Blues pill...?
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l55st9AvSG1qbty93o1_500.jpg)
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ppl keep talking about what its going to be like once it starts getting played and that no one will notice the blemish. And as a person who puts a lot more stock in players basses than collection basses I agree.
But If I were in Robs position it wouldn't be about that aspect of this bass. For me it would be more about me getting the project right and the satisfaction that I get from knowing that it was done right.
If it gets a bit of mojo along the way by being played after that point then I would have no problems at all but I would have to have it right to start with to get the full satisfaction out of building the project.
We are all different , viva la difference. :)
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If it gets a bit of mojo along the way by being played after that point then I would have no problems at all but I would have to have it right to start with to get the full satisfaction out of building the project.
I'm of the same mind but I will think this build is a beautiful specimen no matter what Rob decides. Incredible work...
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Thank you guys.
I'm just a perfectionist. A nitpicker.
But I do realise it is my first build. There's more mistakes in this bass. But this one is so obvious it hurt to see it happen.
But enough of the whining.
I worked a lot on this bass this weekend. And I made some good progress.
The electronics aren't installed yet . But here's a few shots.
The light spot is just above the potmeter in this pic.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100193/PA102173/web.jpg?ver=12867413830001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100193/PA102172/web.jpg?ver=12867413880001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100193/PA102177/web.jpg?ver=12867413930001)
Sounds good acoustic already. Tons of sustain. Snappy tone. Guess the maple top does that.
Can't wait to hear it amplified.
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Looks fine to me. Life's short, play the crap out of it! :thumbsup:
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Looks great. :toast:
I understand your feelings about the dents, but if I were you I would leave them.
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From the photos, I would have thought it a highlight from the lighting. I think the amount of work required relative to the subtlety of the defect is way out of proportion. Leave it and know that most people will never spot it.
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Ooooh mama! Man that's beautiful. I'd leave that blem - you can hardly even see it, and it looks stunning!
Spectacular job! Can't wait to hear it in action 8)
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Man that looks beautiful!
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Absolutely stunning! Congratulations!
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That looks amazing! Great job Rob!!
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Beautifull!
You can hardly see the dent. I love your nut, does it give you extra sustain? ;D
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RRRRRRRRED BASSES YAY! :D Hey, is that an Artec mudbucker? What is the string spacing on the bridge?
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I love your nut, does it give you extra sustain? ;D
No, it colors the sound ;)
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Hey, is that an Artec mudbucker? What is the string spacing on the bridge?
Yes, it's an Artec. String spacing is 18 mm.
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Looks fine to me. Life's short, play the crap out of it! :thumbsup:
What Doc said! :mrgreen:
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99% done!
Only have to solder some of the wires in the control cavity. For now I've twisted them together to see if everything works.
And the frets need to be dressed and polished.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1006/web.jpg?ver=12875054080001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1008/web.jpg?ver=12875054140001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1009/web.jpg?ver=12875054400001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1011/web.jpg?ver=12875054200001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1014/web.jpg?ver=12875054260001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100200/IMG_1015/web.jpg?ver=12875054000001)
The G3 pickups sound amazing! Very powerful.
The Artec Mudbucker is a bit weak in comparison. Don't know why that is. The sound of the Artec is excellent. It gets some clarity because it's close to the bridge. I only need to figure out why the output doesn't match up to the G3 pickups.
But for now I'm pretty happy!
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Daum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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Whew!!!! That is stunning! I'll bet those pups are an earful too! Congrats!
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Ah have lust in mah heart fawr that thar bass! :o
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that came out great. i love cherry over the maple.. Very nice look....
are the gib pups series or parallel wired. i bought the same ones from greatdealz , although not a reversed set as you got as they said they had none left.... series will make them lower in volume if that is what it needs but will be thinner and a little cleaner...
i thought the artec measured 30k . have you checked that out. maybe something wrong. is it 4 wires?? if so check each coil separate and see if it is in series..... some of it is because of where it is on the bass. bridge pickups are always much softer therby they are always raised up much more on my basses....
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WOW!!!
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Maybe you have to raise the whole of the pickup closer to the strings - not just the polepieces, they hardly have some effect to the output of the pickup.
But check the output of the pickup first with a multimeter, it should be in the 30k neighborhood. If it's at about 15k, one of the coils is shorted (less volume), if it's about 7.5k it's connected in parallel (even lower output). Wire colours on artecs are same as seymour duncans, so black is hot, bare and green is ground and red and white are connected together and isolated from the rest of the circuit.
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(You leant her against a wall - not even a hint of protection... :o :o :o)
That is one sweet ride... for a first build, that is awesome...
Gig report next...! ;)
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That turned out beautiful!!!!!!!
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Really nice!
As a builder myself, I have to say this baby turned out great. The overall look is really classy, but the fact that you, as a bass player, tried to make the bass suit your needs and preferences just makes it a pretty much a perfect build. You have built the bass YOU wanted to build, for YOU to play it. There is nothing better than that!
I love what I do, and is great to get payed to do it, but sometimes I have to do stuff that I dont really like myself. I whish I could just do what I wanted to do, so congrats!
BTW, consider this is your first build, I have to say: this is freaking awesome!!!!
My first build was... well... what can I say... comparing to your first build... well, it was playable and it did make some sound, but... definitely not to pleasing to the eye...
So, again, congrats! Great work!
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Looking good. And you must have decided to leave the dents alone or you wouldn't be this far along.
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Thank you guys!
I'm going to have to check that Artec mudbucker with a multimeter to see what it puts out
Here's how it's wired:
(http://www.superfloor.net/wiring-brooks.jpg)
Maybe you have to raise the whole of the pickup closer to the strings - not just the polepieces, they hardly have some effect to the output of the pickup.
But check the output of the pickup first with a multimeter, it should be in the 30k neighborhood. If it's at about 15k, one of the coils is shorted (less volume), if it's about 7.5k it's connected in parallel (even lower output). Wire colours on artecs are same as seymour duncans, so black is hot, bare and green is ground and red and white are connected together and isolated from the rest of the circuit.
See there is no green wire on the Artec. And red is connected to red.
i thought the artec measured 30k . have you checked that out. maybe something wrong. is it 4 wires?? if so check each coil separate and see if it is in series..... some of it is because of where it is on the bass. bridge pickups are always much softer therby they are always raised up much more on my basses....
Guess I could check all the connections and see if there's anything wrong.
I can't raise the pickup any higher as the chrome cover isn't any higher. It sits on top of the body now.
Or maybe I should put a frame underneath to raise it some...
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What spot? What flaws? I don't se nothin' there other than a beautiful instrument.. I would never think it was anybody's first!!
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Absolutely stunning, Rob. Now fix that muttabukka and let us hear it.
Can you remember if the other bass you tried with the mudbucker in that position had the same problem? In case you could try and connect the p.u. alone directly to the jack and see if the problem is the p.u. or the wiring. Just my .02€
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Awesome Rob! :thumbsup:
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I have to say absolutely stunnin'!!!!Im not a fan of red but that would sit proudly in front of anything I have seen in a long time! Old new ,home build restored its right up there with the rest of the seasoned builders.
The G3 pups are Bill Lawrence design if Im not mistaken & the Artek are off shore asia somewhere. Gotta be a wire issue. That thing should be able to play itself...almost :mrgreen:
Just think what he is gonna build next!!The maple cap on maho is such a great combo.
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Just think what he is gonna build next!!
I've been breaking my head over that question too :mrgreen:
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How about a Fenderbird... NR body... ;D
Alternately, something from your own mind, something unique...
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If the Artec is a 4 wire, maybe you have the coils wired in series but out of phase.
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Ash LP body, Bolt on LP style maple neck, 1 x Jazz single coil and 1 x split P.
The Fender you have while still playing a Gibson :o
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He needs to build an Egmond copy.
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If the Artec is a 4 wire, maybe you have the coils wired in series but out of phase.
i have installed the soapbar type artecs in a bass. same color scheme as bartolini. not sure if the mudbucker has 4 wires....
http://www.bartolini.net/instructions/pickups/passive/switching/4cnd_sw1.pdf
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No, there's only two wires at the end of the lead. A white one and a bare one for ground
On the pickup itself there are four wires.
One coil has a red one and a black one
The other coil has a red one and a black one.
The red wires are connected to each other
The black wire of the first coil is connected to ground.
The black wire of the other coil is connected to a white wire.
Yesterday I put tape over the red wires, because the tips where the joint is made wasn't protected.
Now the pickup is as loud as the other ones.
Except it seems like a single coil to me because it hums when I get close to the amp...
Ah, the riddles of electronics 8)
I'll work it out... eventually ;D
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Hey, this is great! You must be proud! I like the design for the string-thru body (how they're not all lined up in a row).
Wow @ the 24 frets!
The red looks goooood. :o
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No, there's only two wires at the end of the lead. A white one and a bare one for ground
On the pickup itself there are four wires.
One coil has a red one and a black one
The other coil has a red one and a black one.
The red wires are connected to each other
The black wire of the first coil is connected to ground.
The black wire of the other coil is connected to a white wire.
put it on a meter and i will do the same with the one i got to see WTF is going on
Yesterday I put tape over the red wires, because the tips where the joint is made wasn't protected.
Now the pickup is as loud as the other ones.
Except it seems like a single coil to me because it hums when I get close to the amp...
Ah, the riddles of electronics 8)
I'll work it out... eventually ;D
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First gig with the Brooks bass!
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100226/IMG_1355/web.jpg?ver=12897676090001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100226/IMG_1354/web.jpg?ver=12897676040001)
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I bet it sounds better than it looks! :mrgreen:
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congrats on the build and thank you for sharing it with us.
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Yeah! That is one cool rocking bass!
Maybe a little video to showcase how she sounds like with all the pickups combinations? Like the Bach videos you did?
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stunning redhead...
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Looks great Rob, if it wans't for that scratch/spot under the pot ruining the look of it.. :mrgreen:
We'd all love to hear some samples.
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Looks great in action,too!
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+1
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You look good on that redhead!
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I'm not a big LP fan but that is one sharp bass! Way to go, Rob.
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At your request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj6znY7pMXc
Bass plugged straight into the board. No EQ.
Amped through my ancient Akai hifi amp with crappy Sony speakers ;-)
And recorded with the little built in mic from my iMac.
I'm still not 100% happy with the sound of the pickups. The mudbucker sounds too muffled. And the Mudbucker together with the other pickups gets sort of drowned out.
But I'm leaving it for now.
See how I like it in a month or so.
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Way to go Rob, you've got used to the camera, next time you'll be dancing 'round the room headbanging and kicking things ;D . I'm jokin mate, nice jam.
I think the problem with the mudbucker is caused by the 30+ K.
Here's something: When both the Mudbucker and the Jazz bridge PU is parallel connected, the difference in impedance causes the Mudbucker to loose volume and bass, and it sounds no fun all!
The unbalanced PU:s had to be dealt with, so I mounted a small switch beneath the tone knob.
Its purpose is to cut bass from the bridge PU (Rickenbacker style), so that the Mudbucker doesnt loose bass when both PU are at full volume.
The link: http://www.lindersson.se/BASS/Flowerpower.htm
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That could be it.
But soloed the mudbucker doesn't sound good either.
And it's not that I really miss bass or volume. It just that I hear more of the G3 pickups then the Mudbucker when they're combined.
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Well, it sounds good through my computer speakers, and it looks great too.
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That could be it.
But soloed the mudbucker doesn't sound good either.
And it's not that I really miss bass or volume. It just that I hear more of the G3 pickups then the Mudbucker when they're combined.
I agree on both counts. I like the sound from the first two samples, but soloed it sounds like the mudbucker just isn't putting out much gain. Whether it's "muffled" or not, I'm unsure - but there's definitely no brightness at all. The low gain is OK if you can compensate when soloed by turning the amp up a bit...but when it's used along with the G3 pickups, it doesn't balance out well - I'm hearing mostly G3 and not much mudbucker.
Definitely still a useable and pleasing sound, though...either of the first two sound samples are good, and the mudbucker by itself will sound like a mudbucker. You can always crank up the amp a bit.
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i think the last one with the tone pot shut sounds the best and most balanced.
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Sounds pretty good for me, and the test is through your Eden rig (which I am most definitely envious of now having gigged one), at volume...
On the PC the volts naturally take the path of least resistance and the MB is bypassed by the RD pup, so at the moment I run with either the MB or the RD, not both - you need to balance the circuit with an additional resistance value - a-la-EB3 - something I'm planning at some point, but as I get two distinctly (well, five as I have the 4 options with the MB being coil-split etc) useful sounds, not a rush...
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but soloed it sounds like the mudbucker just isn't putting out much gain.
Well, it does put out much gain. It is definitely the loudest of all combinations. That much even that it yanks the levels in the red and starts distorting those crappy Sony speakers ;)
@ Kenny: through the Orange AD200 plus Eden cabs, the second option (G3 humbucker) and fourth option (Mudbucker) are the most favorable.
I'l take the bass to my amp doctor. See if he can work it out.
Thanx guys
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obviously this is my opinion so take it for what it is - the g-3 hb and the g-3 hb with the mudbucker are the best combo's to me. G-3 alone sound weak. the mud alone is ok but muddy and a little weak but that may be because where it is on the bass. I still think you should go with a stacked pot and either put a volume for each set of pups or go with a vol/tone setup. I liked the different sound when turning off the tone pot and the variations it will give you and everything in between. I must admit i am a tweaker and will slightly change tone or pups sometimes from song to song. I am sure nobody hears the difference but me but i do......
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First two sounded great to me, different, but great none the less. Nice job!!!
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I like position #2. That is one F#@$in awesome lookin / sounding bass! Again I am humbled.
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nice bass!what works best for me is wiring the mudbucker in series with the rear pickup.they dont seem to work against each other then.and if you connect point where the 2 pickups are joined together to the wiper of a pot which is earthed at one end you have a blend control.
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I liked the mudbucker solo'ed best. Now that I know the Artec mudbucker isn't too bright, I'll have to find a home for one. I agree about series wiring for it. If you don't want the G3's eating it or vice versa, go with series wiring between them.
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Or you could wire the mud in parallel when used with other pups, I think it can be done.
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Yep, you've inspired me to build my own LP on down the road!
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Very nice, Chief!
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I should post what the PC sounds are like at some time - the variations are quite nice but I tend to use mostly as MB/RD - one of the (MB) variants causes the amp (Hiwatt) to misbehave (?) if I stand too close - just looses the signal completely - I thought it was the amp at first - not tried properly through the MAG...
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Amazing things can grow in Holland and not only in greenhouses too!
(http://differentweed.com/wp-content/themes/thesis_18/custom/rotator/Cannabis_sativa.jpg)
I really like the G-3 sounds, but then I'm partial to those pups, but the humbucker on its own, dirty and messy as it sounds, makes an interesting alternative. It might be the position - once mudbuckers are moved backwards they lose a lot of their dinosaur power. But why not try a vintage Gibson mudbucker? Good as the arctec humbuckers are, they don't go to the - commercially today unthinkable, there would be no market for a true mudbucker sound - extremes of a true mudbucker. It sure boosted my SG-Z which always had a weakling, meek sound before. It's a time tunnel
(http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/11228183/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn)
that automatically transports it backwards three decades at least!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/DCP_0914.jpg)
Oh, btw, it looks lovely too.
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But why not try a vintage Gibson mudbucker? Good as the arctec humbuckers are, they don't go to the - commercially today unthinkable, there would be no market for a true mudbucker sound - extremes of a true mudbucker. It sure boosted my SG-Z which always had a weakling, meek sound before. It's a time tunnel
Interesting thought.
I sort of assumed the Artec would be very similar to the original Mudbucker. Because of the construction and impedance value (both identical)
Are you saying there is a significant difference in sound between the two?
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Interesting thought.
I sort of assumed the Artec would be very similar to the original Mudbucker. Because of the construction and impedance value (both identical)
Are you saying there is a significant difference in sound between the two?
I think most of us would say a big YES. You owe it to yourself to find out what real mud is!
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Well, I have this 63 Epiphone Newport with an original mudbucker. So I guess I'm supposed to know what real mud is...
But it's comparing apples and oranges, if I compare the sound with that of my self built Brooks bass.
The Newport has the mudbucker at the neck while the Brooks has it at the bridge.
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You're right, definitely apples and oranges. Have to A/B them in the same bass same position or have a pup guy scope them to find out.
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I assume that the pseudo-mudbucker in my Epi Elitist EB-3 is an Arctec or something similar, it mimics a mudbucker sound - a mockbucker -, but its no way near the original in rawness and hoarseness and - alas! - unevenness of string to string output, it's just too well-behaved even in the neck position. But its not the TB Plus sound of the SG RI Mockbucker either. All these modern pups attempting to better on the mudbucker since DiMarzio Model 1 days are - for better or worse - stable horses compared to the wild mustang an old Gibson mudbucker is. Overwound is like cubic inches in an engine, you can fake your way around it, but it's not the real thing.
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Construction wise the Artec looks exactly the same as the one in my 63 Newport.
The Artec mudbucker measures an impressive 29.7 Kohms. So I guess it safe to say it is overwound.
But it doesn't have the typical weak(er) E and G
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I agree. i think its a combination ofthe artec mock but more the position...It specs close so should sound similar just not as good. case in point the bachbird versus the lull or an original. I have an 70's eb3L with the pickup further back and it does not sound anything like my eb3 and ebo . The other are short scale and all mahog so not apple to apples but still it sounds different. I forgot - is it the same pup as the one on the eb-2 bach?
This post made me put on Nantucket Sleighride. That bass should be barking up a storm. Felix's sound is so over the top....so perfect a compliment to leslie.....
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I forgot - is it the same pup as the one on the eb-2 bach?
No it isn't. The mudbucker from the BaCH EB2 only has one magnet per side. The Artec (and original Gibson) has two magnets per side.
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I assume that the pseudo-mudbucker in my Epi Elitist EB-3 is an Arctec or something similar, it mimics a mudbucker sound - a mockbucker -, but its no way near the original in rawness and hoarseness and - alas! - unevenness of string to string output, it's just too well-behaved even in the neck position. But its not the TB Plus sound of the SG RI Mockbucker either. All these modern pups attempting to better on the mudbucker since DiMarzio Model 1 days are - for better or worse - stable horses compared to the wild mustang an old Gibson mudbucker is. Overwound is like cubic inches in an engine, you can fake your way around it, but it's not the real thing.
Unlike the Artec, both the Epi Elite Mockbucker and the TB-Plus have only one magnet per side ........ ;D
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Thank you Martin. This confirms the Artec is the closest to the real thing you can find on the market these days.
Even closer than the Epi Elitist.
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Curtis Novak makes 'em.
http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/EB-0.shtml
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Haha, for that kind of money you can buy two original Mudbuckers (and nine Artecs!).
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Thank you Martin. This confirms the Artec is the closest to the real thing you can find on the market these days.
Even closer than the Epi Elitist.
You didn't specify price.
Haha, for that kind of money you can buy two original Mudbuckers (and nine Artecs!).
Generally not a pre '67 mudbucker. Novak's price seems reasonable to me for a pup built to original specs or custom wound to yours.
As has been discussed the Artecs merely LOOK like mudbuckers, magnets are different, etc. If looks are what is important to the buyer, no problem. Sound wise they are different and it can be proven objectively with the right test equipment.
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You didn't specify price. Generally not a pre '67 mudbucker. Novak's price seems reasonable to me for a pup built to original specs or custom wound to yours.
As has been discussed the Artecs merely LOOK like mudbuckers, magnets are different, etc. If looks are what is important to the buyer, no problem. Sound wise they are different and it can be proven objectively with the right test equipment.
Hmmm ... I don't know Carlo. Looks like you're somewhat partial to the USA made Novak pickups. Is that chauvinism? Why is 190 dollar a reasonable price when the Artec cost only 20?? :o
The Artec don't just look like mudbuckers. They are. Maybe not 100% alike. But I'd say at least 95%. Whereas the other mockbuckers in the market aren't even close.
Artecs are available with ceramic magnets or with AlNiCo5 magnets. Most you see on Ebay are ceramic. But I ordered it straight at the factory; it has AlNiCo5 magnets. Like the original.
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Hmmm ... I don't know Carlo. Looks like you're somewhat partial to the USA made Novak pickups. Is that chauvinism? Why is 190 dollar a reasonable price when the Artec cost only 20?? :o
The Artec don't just look like mudbuckers. They are. Maybe not 100% alike. But I'd say at least 95%. Whereas the other mockbuckers in the market aren't even close.
Artecs are available with ceramic magnets or with AlNiCo5 magnets. Most you see on Ebay are ceramic. But I ordered it straight at the factory; it has AlNiCo5 magnets. Like the original.
Re the price differential, Novak is acknowledged to build quality, authentic sounding stuff. Chauvinism? I don't own an American bass I haven't built newer than a '67. Everything else is Asian with the exception of the 2 Czechs.
Have to admit I do not know how the sound of a $20 Artec Mockbucker (please don't lecture me as to what a mudbucker is) compares to a 1960's Gibson. I do know how an Artec 'chrome' soapbar compares soundwise to a 60's Thunderbird pup. I can only hope that their mudbucker is a closer simulation. But for less than $20 who cares?
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Part of what you're paying for with someone like Novak is his expertise at recreating the original sound. That's not to say that his is 100% accurate or that Artec's aren't. I haven't heard either.
In either case, looking like the same construction and having similar specs ought to at least get you close, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the real deal.
I realize Artec's labor costs are dirt cheap, but at those prices I do wonder what grade of magnets and magnet wire they use. These are commodities, e.g. even a big mass producer can't buy magnet wire for less than the price of copper. I don't see how they could be using the same type of 42awg as Gibson did to get that 30K resistance reading and still retail the pickups at that price. OTOH they could get the same reading by using fewer turns of a finer wire with thinner insulation. Only way to find out is to have one analyzed by someone with enough knowledge.
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Well said, Dave.
Novak has a page on his site where he takes apart an Asian LP pup and shows the difference between it and one of his. Then he rebuilds it to his spec. Very informative.
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Curtis Novak makes 'em.
http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/EB-0.shtml
his prices are rather high....
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his prices are rather high....
i am considering sending him my ripper pups for a redo. Same with the dearmond jet star i recently bought. Pickups re rather blahhhhh
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I do know how an Artec 'chrome' soapbar compares soundwise to a 60's Thunderbird pup. I can only hope that their mudbucker is a closer simulation. But for less than $20 who cares?
Artec doesn't claim to make a 60's Thunderbirdburd humbucker reproduction with those chrome soapbars.
They were chosen by BaCH to fit the BaCHbird because I suggested a generic humbucker at the start of that project. The idea was to have a cheap pickup that could easily be replaced by anyone's preferred pickup to personalize or upgrade their BaCHbird.
When the BaCHbirds arrived many of us found the Artec surprisingly good (for the money).
But nobody ever said they were a copy of the real thing.
End of lecture... :o :P
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...
But nobody ever said they were a copy of the real thing.
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Carlo isn't saying they ought to be a copy of the real thing. At that price, it's not an issue.
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Can someone point me in the direction of a £$€20 Artec MB copy as I'm game to try one...
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Can you buy direct from them?
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Can you buy direct from them?
AFAIK no direct sales to end users. You can usually find the ceramic magnet version new on eBay listed as Artec Custom Hot 4 String Bass Pickup. The model is EBC4-CR. I don't know if the alnico version is available except as OEM sales. Rob may know.
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On the Dutch Basgitaarforum we ordered several different Artec pickups at once, through Bernardduur aka Rogier. He's signed op for the Outpost too, but hasn't posted in a while. Rogier (who build effects etc as Technophobia) ordered straight at Mr. Sy Suk from Artec Sound.
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Funny, I just responded to a post Rogier made the other day (on Danelectro Longhorn wiring). He's still checking in.
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Great. Maybe we can ask him to set up a new order at Artec if there is enough demand for Artec pickups?
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2 for me
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2 for me
Are those for the Jet Star? So far, I'm OK with the stock pickups. Played one gig with it and it went fine.
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Can we get soap bars with Alnico magnets?
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They do have 'em
http://www.artecsound.com/catalog
click the Magnetic_Pickup_2007 pdf to see their catalogue
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Are those for the Jet Star? So far, I'm OK with the stock pickups. Played one gig with it and it went fine.
No some other project. I try and keep all my vintage (reiisue or actual) basses the way they were made. That's why i got them in the first place. Probably not for the best but i have enough other stuff to make me happy. That bass i will probably leave stock. On mine the pickups are on the weak side but there are ways around that. If i replace the pups it would have to be an exact replica which is why i might have the stock ones beefed up. Curtis novak actually has a little thing on his website beefing up a jetstar pup. i have a few outboard bass preamps that will fix most weak pups...
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his prices are rather high....
Not for a boutique pup maker I think. Given how little demand there must be for new EB-0 pups, I find his price reasonable, especially when compared to some of the sixties TBird replacement pups.