The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: ilan on March 31, 2021, 12:13:04 AM
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Updated group pic. L-R:
1960 500/3 #203 (toaster top)
1964 182E2 (staple tops)
1965 Senator Bass Brunette #2019
1962 182E2 red vinyl (diamond tops)
1964 Senator Bass Blonde #1651
1964 Senator E1 Thinline Brunette #1500
(https://scontent.fsdv2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-0/p180x540/167082560_10158190982463263_6983509562480680221_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=TjDgilf5RywAX-ApN4h&_nc_ht=scontent.fsdv2-1.fna&tp=6&oh=211029eb495e0ceef6a4244f12469d17&oe=60884689)
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That brunette bass is beautiful. Do you have an overall favorite?
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Those arch tops are indeed gorgeous !
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Great collection! I have six to. But all modern.
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Ooo, really like the single cutaway naturals!
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Which is the newest?
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Do you have an overall favorite?
The '60 Blonde 500/3 on the left, hands down. I can't even begin to describe how fantastic this bass is. All the Senators pale in comparison.
Which is the newest?
The '62 red vinyl 182E2 has arrived on Tuesday. It didn't require much work, I just need to replace the nut. It even came strung with a nice set of correct length (i.e. medium scale) Pyramid flats.
Ooo, really like the single cutaway naturals!
It's the closest I'll ever get to Uwe's Super 400 fretless which is the nicest looking bass in the observable universe :-)
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"It's the closest I'll ever get to Uwe's Super 400 fretless which is the nicest looking bass in the observable universe :-)"
Now you're really putting on the shemen with both hands, Ilan! :mrgreen:
That is one hell of a Höfner Kibbuz you have there. Yet no violin shape model, their most famous one, any specific reason for that? Let me guess, you're still saving yourself for the right one to come along? 8)
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That is one hell of a Höfner Kibbuz you have there. Yet no violin shape model, their most famous one, any specific reason for that? Let me guess, you're still saving yourself for the right one to come along? 8)
He's held and played Sir Paul's. No other one could measure up.
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Yet no violin shape model, their most famous one, any specific reason for that? Let me guess, you're still saving yourself for the right one to come along? 8)
For my hollow body Höfner needs, I really prefer the 500/3 over any 500/1 I have ever played.
My first bass was a 500/1. My dad bought it for me in 1975, and it had blade pickups, short tailpiece, bound fretboard, wide control panel with teacups and cream slider switches, silk screened logo and rounded heel - all indicating a 1967 model. It was just a cheap used bass at the time, considered suitable for beginners. If I ever get a violin bass again, it will have to be a '67. Actually I would really like to buy back my old bass - I sold it to my tutor in 1976 (to get a Klira, that's how stupid I was) and 45 years later he still owns it. He's in the US, and a couple of years ago we exchanged emails and I have first dibs on the bass if he ever sells.
He's held and played Sir Paul's. No other one could measure up.
Held but did not play. It's left handed.
Now after a few days with the two new (to me) 182's, as much as I like the sunburst '64 in her fantastic almost unplayed condition, the red vinyl '62 sounds better to me, even with its heavy plywood body (the '64 is solid poplar and feather weight). Must be the diamond-top pickups.
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Of course, Ilan's "Burning Bush Experience" with Paul's instrument from the Hamburg streets of sin was a celebration of faith and a curse ...
What's with that noteworthy obsession with German instruments, did one of your ancestors come from that historic German instrument building area that now covers parts of Saxony, Northern Bavaria und the Czech Republic?
I vividly remember how back in the 70ies, German brands were the uncoolest thing to play - in Germany! Höfner, Hoyer, Framus, Klira ..., they were the epitome of unfashionable; any Korean or Japanese knock-off was held in higher regard. The fact that with Macca und Bill Wyman the bassists of the two most famous bands in the world had played German build instruments did not matter, quality did not matter. Those instruments were strictly regarded as flea market ware - that really only gradually changed in the 90ies.
When I eschewed buying a Ric 4001 in 1979 and went home with a (high quality, neck-thru, all maho, DiMarzio Model 1-equipped) Hoyer Eagle for the same price, everyone thought I was mad. In fact, after a while (the Hoyer sounded great, but didn't look the part with its Alembic'ish design) I agreed with them and regretted not buying the Ric (pick player, hard rock + Ric were much more of a mission statement).
I still have the Hoyer though! It's been through a lot, two neck breaks: one of them following a temper tantrum in the rehearsal room when I threw it to the floor enraged (the poor instrument hat nothing to do with it, I should have hit the singer), the other when a toddler (not one of my own!) toppled it from its stand.
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What's with that noteworthy obsession with German instruments (...) I vividly remember how back in the 70ies, German brands were the uncoolest thing to play
It was the same in Israel through the 70s and 80s - Hofners were $100 beginner basses. I did however always have a soft spot for large hollow bodied basses (preferably blonde), as you know for sure, since I first saw a blonde Hofner Committee (or Golden Hofner) on the cover of a Tommy Steele biography in the mid 70s. I mean, just look at that beauty in my avatar. The 182 is a different story though - a guy at school had one with the red vinyl facings and I wanted it soooo bad. So 45 years later I got myself one from my birth year (and another one just because it was the right price and in near mint condition). Hey, I will turn 60 next year and it's a lot cheaper than a red BMW Z4 roadster!
And I still have considerably more US-made vintage basses than German-made...
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My hunch is that it had to do with your service years in the Merkava! All that head bumping and the fuel fumes. :mrgreen:
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My hunch is that it had to do with your service years in the Merkava! All that head bumping and the fuel fumes. :mrgreen:
Did my service in a desk job, drank gallons of coffee and smoked 4 packets a day out of boredom, went home every day at 5pm. What a waste of time it was. Then I went to a psychiatrist and got my discharge. I'm not sure I would know a Merkava if it fell on my head.
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In general, I can't ever remember Hofner being considered low status in the U.S. But brands like Silvertone and, of course, Teisco were definitely considered low status when I was growing up. But I never heard anyone say, that's just a Hofner, that's what Paul McCartney plays.
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In general, I can't ever remember Hofner being considered low status in the U.S. But brands like Silvertone and, of course, Teisco were definitely considered low status when I was growing up. But I never heard anyone say, that's just a Hofner, that's what Paul McCartney plays.
Same here. They weren't viewed as versatile, that's for sure, but not looked down upon.
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You'd expect the Beatles' choice of guitars to be a huge influence but most of the world still stuck with Fenders and Gibsons. Next to a Precision bass, Höfners feel like fragile toys.
In Israel in the early 60s Fenders were hard to find and very expensive, and Hofner imports were an affordable option, much like in the UK at the time. 182's and 185's were more popular than 500/1's. Once you could afford a Fender or Gibson, the Hofner usually got sold.
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I remember some stories from friends here in the eighties in The Netherlands. One guy sold his '60s Höfner bass to buy an active 5 string. I guess we all thought carbon fibre and headless was the future. I guess it wasn't only Höfner but also certain guitars getting just not fiting ij with the neon coloured eighties.
I read an interview once with a guy with a big Rickenbacker bass collection in the UK. In the eighties he spend all his student grants on Rickenbacker basses. People almost gave them away and bought modern stuff.
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I've heard several versions, but here is a short version of how Paul ended up with his first cavern bass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14cwmnSQjH0
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"I'm not sure I would know a Merkava if it fell on my head."
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
My guess is: You wouldn't remember much of the incident either.
(https://www.defensehere.com/icerik/2020/11/24/bc6089ba-7486-4750-9c64-a3b82a25776e.png)
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I've heard several versions, but here is a short version of how Paul ended up with his first cavern bass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14cwmnSQjH0
That's the only story I know! His first Höffie (an American bass would have been unaffordable for him, the tariffs were prohibitive to protect the resurgence of post-war Germany's industry) was a righty - as it should be, I don't think that left hand Höfners even existed in the late 50ies/early 60ies, certainly no one would waste money and stock them in a shop without a pre-order. Let's face it, in the late 50ies/early 60ies, lefties were expected to adapt to righty. When I went to school 1st grade in 1966, it was the first year where lefties were no longer "retrained" righty. It was a big thing, labelled as "a field experiment" of the education board, the principal would visit classes and assess how the poor lefties were doing with their "predicament". :mrgreen:
The music store in question is very much your typical musical store you would have in larger cities (starting with a population of say 100.000, Hamburg was 1.8 million people in 1960, making it huge by German standards) in the 50ie/60ies.
I've also read that the lightness of the Höfner appealed to Paul as The Beatles would play up to 6-8 hours every night (up to the early morning hours, the Hamburg red light district had no curfew) six days a week during their Reeperbahn stint. You wouldn't want a P-Bass weighing down your neck and shoulders for that amount of time even if you are on a Captagon diet.
(https://www.frankenfernsehen.tv/storage/thumbs/117926.jpg)
The part they missed was that Höfner had - admittedly so - ripped the violin shape off the Gibson EB(-1), albeit hollowing it out and using readily available German woods rather than hard to get and expensive overseas mahogany. Of course, the huge EB sales - :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - did not spawn immediate action by Gibson.
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That's the only story I know! His first Höffie (an American bass would have been unaffordable for him, the tariffs were prohibitive to protect the resurgence of post-war Germany's industry) was a righty - as it should be, I don't think that left hand Höfners even existed in the late 50ies/early 60ies, certainly no one would waste money and stock them in a shop without a pre-order. Let's face it, in the late 50ies/early 60ies, lefties were expected to adapt to righty. When I went to school 1st grade in 1966, it was the first year where lefties were no longer "retrained" righty. It was a big thing, labelled as "a field experiment" of the education board, the principal would visit classes and assess how the poor lefties were doing with their "predicament". :mrgreen:
The music store in question is very much your typical musical store you would have in larger cities (starting with a population of say 100.000, Hamburg was 1.8 million people in 1960, making it huge by German standards) in the 50ie/60ies.
I've also read that the lightness of the Höfner appealed to Paul as The Beatles would play up to 6-8 hours every night (up to the early morning hours, the Hamburg red light district had no curfew) six days a week during their Reeperbahn stint. You wouldn't want a P-Bass weighing down your neck and shoulders for that amount of time even if you are on a Captagon diet.
(https://www.frankenfernsehen.tv/storage/thumbs/117926.jpg)
The part they missed was that Höfner had - admittedly so - ripped the violin shape off the Gibson EB(-1), albeit hollowing it out and using readily available German woods rather than hard to get and expensive overseas mahogany. Of course, the huge EB sales - :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - did not spawn immediate action by Gibson.
One story I've heard many times over is the one emphasizing that Paul had to settle for a Hofner only because he couldn't afford a Fender. But it's usually told by someone awestruck with Fenders. But Paul McCartney seemed to do fine with whatever brand he played. I liked the way he sounded playing a Rickenbacker. But maybe that's because so many tracks have him playing one.
I have also seen a quote somewhere where Paul said the main reason he liked playing a violin bass was because they're so light. I'm paraphrasing, but he said something about people finding this hard to believe, but it really was nice to have something so light on the shoulders. I think another reason was Elvis Costello insisting that the Hofner to Paul McCartney was like the cane to Charlie Chaplin. Playing a Hofner was a debt he owed to pop culture.
It really would have been interesting if Paul could have played an EB-1. It would have changed a lot of things, no doubt. But that's not something particularly very light..
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Same here. They weren't viewed as versatile, that's for sure, but not looked down upon.
I really wasn't sure if my reaction was a regional one or a nationwide American one.
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The part they missed was that Höfner had - admittedly so - ripped the violin shape off the Gibson EB(-1), albeit hollowing it out and using readily available German woods rather than hard to get and expensive overseas mahogany. Of course, the huge EB sales - :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: - did not spawn immediate action by Gibson.
I hardly think that Gibson would ever have claimed to have originated the shape. Certainly not Ted McCarty. Even Henry wouldn't have made that claim. Mark Agnesi? Maybe.
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I have also seen a quote somewhere where Paul said the main reason he liked playing a violin bass was because they're so light. I'm paraphrasing, but he said something about people finding this hard to believe, but it really was nice to have something so light on the shoulders.
I can attest to that - when I asked him, that was his answer, and then he handed over the bass to me and added that it's actually lighter than I think, because it had a transmitter (and a battery pack, I think, not sure) attached to the strap.
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I can attest to that - when I asked him, that was his answer, and then he handed over the bass to me and added that it's actually lighter than I think, because it had a transmitter (and a battery pack, I think, not sure) attached to the strap.
That's nice getting the answer straight from the source!
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OWhat's with that noteworthy obsession with German instruments, did one of your ancestors come from that historic German instrument building area that now covers parts of Saxony, Northern Bavaria und the Czech Republic?
So I just won this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/334020869261) red vinyl Klira Triumphator - my offer for EUR 340 was accepted:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0TkAAOSwbzdgoOOR/s-l1600.jpg)
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I didn't know they made solidbodies. Looks to be in good shape. Congrats!
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I didn't know they made solidbodies
Oh yes they did, and they were even worse than the other Bubenreuth-based guitar factory's solids in the 60's. My second bass at age 14 (the first was a '67 500/1) was a solid Klira with a turquoise vinyl covered chipboard body and sticky black-painted pencil neck. It was a total mess, I sold it two weeks later for half of what my dad paid and got a new (in 1976) Japanese-made J copy that had an upright-like action (I didn't know it was fixable) after I installed Guild-branded heavy gauge flats on it. Still it was way better than that Klira. In Hebrew, by the way, Kli Ra means "a bad instrument". So why, you may ask. Because now I can make it playable, and I need a corrective experience. And I already have all the Fenders and Rics I need for real life bass playing situations, so now I can collect some cool toys.
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I looked on Reverb, people are asking outrageous prices for the vinyl covered solidbody basses and guitars. EUR 340 seems like a bargain.
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This is the vinyl I want now. There's one for sale for EUR 1,400 (https://www.vintageandrare.com/showroom/product/Hofner-185-Artist-Brokat-1966-Vinyl-1797/) ($1,700). So I'll wait.
(https://www.ibass.co.il/forum/uploads/monthly_2021_03/image.thumb.png.7df00223e2601fd09b959403ae815955.png)
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Somewhere there is a 1960's bathroom with no floor covering....
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Are you sure that's vinyl? It looks more like double-knit polyester left over from a leisure suit. ;D
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Are you sure that's vinyl? It looks more like double-knit polyester left over from a leisure suit. ;D
I wish I could find sheets of brocade vinyl like this, to mod plain red Hofners.
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So I just won this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/334020869261) red vinyl Klira Triumphator - my offer for EUR 340 was accepted:
Finally took delivery of the Klira today. What was described as "an amazingly well-preserved bass" features a serious back-bow in the neck. Totally unplayable.
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Sorry to hear it.
I noticed the warranty disclaimers in the seller's listing, but it is described as Used, which includes "but is fully operational and functions as intended" in the definition.
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Sorry to hear it.
I noticed the warranty disclaimers in the seller's listing, but it is described as Used, which includes "but is fully operational and functions as intended" in the definition.
He refuses to take it back. I'll try to deal with the back-bow by heat treatment.
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He refuses to take it back. I'll try to deal with the back-bow by heat treatment.
Patient heat treatment can do a lot. I hope it works!
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Patient heat treatment can do a lot. I hope it works!
Thanks. Any tips?
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There are a few good threads about heat treating necks on TB. There is also a vendor somewhere who specializes in heat treatment and I recall that being discussed as part of the TB threads. Might search the Luthier forum and the Hardware, Setup and Repair forum.
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He refuses to take it back. I'll try to deal with the back-bow by heat treatment.
You're not going to file a dispute with eBay? It's not as described, period. eBay should back you up, and if you paid by paypal or credit card, that's additional backup.
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He refuses to take it back. I'll try to deal with the back-bow by heat treatment.
Ebay is buyers market. Trust me, as a seller on ebay I know they will refund you if you file a case. Item not as described is return or refund, should be easy enough.
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Hope you're right about this. I've opened a dispute at PayPal.
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I remember some stories from friends here in the eighties in The Netherlands. One guy sold his '60s Höfner bass to buy an active 5 string. I guess we all thought carbon fibre and headless was the future. I guess it wasn't only Höfner but also certain guitars getting just not fiting ij with the neon coloured eighties.
I read an interview once with a guy with a big Rickenbacker bass collection in the UK. In the eighties he spend all his student grants on Rickenbacker basses. People almost gave them away and bought modern stuff.
Only one notable exception occurs to me - and even Tina pretty much dropped her Hofner mid-decade as far as I know:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL2IkJ1P_H0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7N2tFb0X8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0DpBnUznd0
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Just got an email from paypal - "You've received a full refund offer from eBay".
The return address, though, where am I supposed to send the bass to?
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That's very strange. eBay isn't the seller, and you shouldn't have to send it to their US headquarters.
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Contacted Paypal via chat, they respond within seconds, they gave me a return address in Switzerland.
BTW Dave, opening the dispute I mentioned the "used" definition that you have cleverly spotted, and I overlooked. So I owe you.
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Happy to help!
Switzerland is a lot better than having to send it to eBay's HQ.
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After some back and forth with PayPal, I got a full refund on the back-bowed Klira. Wouldn't have happened without Dave's input. Thanks again mate.
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:toast:
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Update on the Höfner inventory situation: won this Verithin (https://www.ebay.com/itm/115225686157) for £600 (US$812) on eBay.
Non-original pickups, but so many of the original pickups don't make it without a rewind, and I really like toaster-tops, so for the price I'm okay with this. If I don't like them I can always get a pair of staple-top reissues, they are excellent pickups that sound exactly like the old ones.
Never had a Verithin before. Now the wait.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zPoAAOSwqJBh4W-h/s-l1600.jpg)
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That is one VERY handsome bass!!
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Nice!
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I like it !
A lot …
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I like it !
A lot …
Whoa... That is SWEET!
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Acoustically, my 2½" deep 500/3 is way better than my 2" deep Senator, that extra half inch really makes a huge difference, so understandably I have low expectations from a 1¼" deep Verithin in that aspect. I'm curious how it will sound plugged in.
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Nice one!
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Very beautiful! I love toasters and i love the Verythin, so that would be my perfect Höfner!