The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: mc2NY on May 29, 2012, 09:23:22 AM
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Am I the only one here who doesn't really care for bass solos? I think I even prefer a drum solo over a bass solo....and I friggin' HATE drum solos.
I see a lot of posts of YouTube bass solos and songs with bass solos. Out of an entire band, the bass is pretty much LAST on my list of instruments I want to here someone solo with. Usually, I'm just thinking, "if you want to solo....go buy a 6-string guitar and let the band hire a real bass player."
Yeah, SACRELIGE!
I'd much rather hear a bass player who is playing a great groove or hook that he came up with that is instrumental to the song.
I guess I also feel the same about basses that have an abundance of root strings...anything more than 5 strings (a LOW B, being the fifth.) But I guess that most players who have all the extra root strings would likely fall into the "bass solo" category as well, no? Even a 5 with a High-C....um, you are a BASS player, why add higher notes?
Root-octave basses (8-, 10- 12-) to me are just to color the basic root note....sort of like a physical effects pedal....so I feel those are OK....as long as you don't feel you need to play some long solo on them.
I had a fill-in gig once with a band and right in the middle of some cover song, the singer yells "BASS SOLO!" wihtout any advance warning. I wanted to stop playing and just hit him across his head with my bass...but I bit the bullet and did a solo. But afterward in the dressing room I wasn't very polite and "WTF?!?" and "You're an a-hole" were in the conversation.
OK....blast away :)
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where ya' been. hardly anyone around here enjoys bass solos from what i can tell. uwe probably likes them strictly as a diagnostic exercise. ;D
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IMHO , a bass solo should be short and sweet, or not at all, preferably a tight break that remains consistant with the groove of the song. The big tempo change and total escape from the groove doesn't work too well with me. Every now and then the tempo change can work, particularly in something jazzy, but usually it just doesn't cut it. All that being said, I'm not a big fan of bass solos either but I never say never. Few and far between better states my sentiments ;D.
Rick
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It works very well in jazz. And in rock when done properly, Glover's solo on Pictures of Home is a good example. Anyway I prefer upright bass solos over electric. NHOP's solos are pure gold.
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I don't like bass solos either. Especially the ones that don't have any relation to the song they're being forced into. All of a sudden the bass player feels to urge to slap, pop and tap.
The only bass solos that I like are the ones that are sort of incognito. Like the bass solo in Mr. Big by Andy Fraser of Free. From 3:51 on he's doing tasteful stuff there while holding down the groove and structure of the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhCilozomo
Or Hand Me Down by Robert Kearns of Cry Of Love. At 3:40 he starts to slowly go from just accompanying the band into a more melodic and slightly busier bass part without being obnoxious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmjEWEp9w2M
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Listen starting about 6:10. Paul Goddard was an outstanding bass player.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Au1EaCb-0
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You KNOW we have to post this...
In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it could have been a Jazz - nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old ... definitely pre-C.B.S.
And God looked down upon it and saw that it was good. He saw that it was very good in fact, and couldn't be improved on at all (though men would later try.) And so He let it be and He created a man to play the bass.
And lo the man looked upon the bass, which was a beautiful 'sunburst' red, and he loved it. He played upon the open E string and the note rang through the earth and reverberated throughout the firmaments (thus reverb came to be.) And it was good. And God heard that it was good and He smiled at his handiwork.
Then in the course of time, the man came to slap upon the bass. And lo it was funky.
And God heard this funkiness and He said, "Go man, go." And it was good.
And more time passed, and, having little else to do, the man came to practice upon the bass. And lo, the man came to have upon him a great set of chops. And he did play faster and faster until the notes rippled like a breeze through the heavens.
And God heard this sound which sounded something like the wind, which He had created earlier. It also sounded something like the movement of furniture, which He hadn't even created yet, and He was not so pleased. And He spoke to the man, saying "Don't do that!"
Now the man heard the voice of God, but he was so excited about his new ability that he slapped upon the bass a blizzard of funky notes. And the heavens shook with the sound, and the Angels ran about in confusion. (Some of the Angels started to dance, but that's another story.)
And God heard this - how could He miss it - and lo He became Bugged. And He spoke to the man, and He said, "Listen man, if I wanted Jimi Hendrix I would have created the guitar. Stick to the bass parts."
And the man heard the voice of God, and he knew not to mess with it. But now he had upon him a passion for playing fast and high. The man took the frets off of the bass which God had created. And the man did slide his fingers upon the fretless fingerboard and play melodies high upon the neck. And, in his excitement, the man did forget the commandment of the Lord, and he played a frenzy of high melodies and blindingly fast licks. And the heavens rocked with the assault and the earth shook, rattled and rolled.
Now God's wrath was great. And His voice was thunder as He spoke to the man.
And He said, "OK for you, pal. You have not heeded My word. Lo, I shall create a soprano saxophone and it shall play higher than you can even think of."
"And from out of the chaos I shall bring forth the drums. And they shall play so many notes thine head shall ache, and I shall make you to always stand next to the drummer."
"You think you're loud? I shall create a stack of Marshall guitar amps to make thine ears bleed. And I shall send down upon the earth other instruments, and lo, they shall all be able to play higher and faster than the bass."
"And for all the days of man, your curse shall be this; that all the other musicians shall look to you, the bass player, for the low notes. And if you play too high or fast all the other musicians shall say "Wow" but really they shall hate it. And they shall tell you you're ready for your solo career, and find other bass players for their bands. And for all your days if you want to play your fancy licks you shall have to sneak them in like a thief in the night."
"And if you finally do get to play a solo, everyone shall leave the bandstand and go to the bar for a drink."
And it was so.
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Amen!
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One of my favourite bass players is Phil Lesh in the Dead. Somewhere around '72 the guitarist Bob Weir made his solo album, Ace, with the rest of the entire Dead. In the Dead tune Playing in the band, Lesh goes all the way. It's so fuggin beautiful... from entry to end. You decide yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-AhJhiBYxs
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I don't like bass solos in general. Not willing to condemn all of them.
Bassists should always be serene and calm and stay in the background, like Frank DiNunzio in this clip. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DANkec2NY4w
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Also obligatory:
A scientific expedition disembarks from its plane at the final outpost of civilization in the deepest Amazon rain forest. They immediately notice the ceaseless thrumming of native drums. As they venture further into the bush, the drums never stop, day or night, for weeks.
The lead scientist asks one of the natives about this, and the native's only reply is "Drums good. Drums never stop. Very BAD if drums stop."
The drumming continues, night and day, until one night, six weeks into the trip, when the jungle is suddenly silent. Immediately the natives run screaming from their huts, covering their ears. The scientists grab one boy and demand "What is it? The drums have stopped!"
The terror-stricken youth replies "Yes! Drums stop! VERY BAD!"
The scientists ask "Why? Why? What will happen?"
Wild-eyed, the boy responds,
" . . . BASS SOLO!!!" -
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If it serves the song, a bass solo can be cool...I always liked Charlie Haden's solo work...
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As a 16 year old kid back in '78 I sneaked (way under age) into a night-club to see my beloved Slade. Jimmy Lea had a new custom bass and in the middle of a cover of "Something Else" the lights went down & a roar came out of Jimmy's massive Hiwatt backline ............ from that night on I knew I had to have one.
It's the only bass solo that to me has a unique sound................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T13cc1DpF7g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJePz9A958
Years later the solo was extended and put into one of their own songs...........
........... and may years after that "some guy" ;) of this forum :mrgreen: did a Victor Kyam and bought a bass exactly like it.
Of course it does help to have the guts of an overdrive pedal built into it - along with two of the then highest output pickups ever made.
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I always liked Andy Fraser's approach, especially with Sharks. While my favorite song is "Snakes and Swallowtails", which is pretty much a running bass solo, this is another good example of the bass running the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjXUpRkvro8
And probably my favorite bass line is running underneath this one. James Jamerson did more underneath a song than most players do for solos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnDm3qr1Knk
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The solo in "My Generation" is around the longest bass solo I can tolerate.
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I think my favorite bass solo is Glen Cornick's performance in "Boureé". It totally fits into the song as a whole, sounds great, is neither too long nor too short and in my opinion adds something to the song it would not have otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2RNe2jwHE0
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Agree compeletly about that line in Reach out! Absolutely great, everything about it. Also digs the drive in Jamersons playing, together with the drums in 7 rooms of gloom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C0ObE8m36M
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The solo in "My Generation" is around the longest bass solo I can tolerate.
Does "The Real Me" qualify? I always preferred that one...
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This is close enough to a solo for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJbdAZZqMU0
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I have no problem with Stanley Clarke's bass solos.
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clarke is a jazz guy, they have to solo. it's a law or something. no solo, no jazz. :)
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Regarding The Who: Wowie! And Wowie Zowie! Where did Entwhistle get his ideas of bass playing? That galopping style, those myriads of tones... And just to watch Moons looney smile behind the skins.... Oj! Oj! Oj!, as we pronounce it over here!
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I think my favorite bass solo is Glen Cornick's performance in "Boureé". It totally fits into the song as a whole, sounds great, is neither too long nor too short and in my opinion adds something to the song it would not have otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2RNe2jwHE0
totally agree......
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Personally, I find bass solos intriguing. There are a lot of different ways that bassists can solo - some are absolute virtuosos, like Jaco, able to solo freely on their instrument on the same level as a saxophonist for example. Other soloists aren't as virtuosic but instead play within the limitations of their instrument - Jack Bruce comes to mind. The division between jazz and rock is interesting - I think whether or not you like bass solos will depend on what kind of music you listen to. In some kinds of music, solos are the lifeblood of the music - in others, they are subservient to the song.
I remember watching one of those "Bass Days" videos - something like that, where a bunch of top bassist perform, and at the end they had a bunch playing together at the same time - I seem to remember Steve Bailey, Oteil Burbridge, Tony Levin - all the solos were pretty boring, the best one was Billy Sheehan! His had attitude and conviction that the others lacked.
I finally started learning how to solo in the past ten years. I've been playing for almost thirty. I started mainly out of necessity - I started making my own original music, and couldn't lean on a guitarist to take the lead anymore, so I had to do it. I was partly inspired by blues artists like Muddy Waters - they aren't virtuosos, but when they solo they play like they mean it. So I finally learned to work within my limitations and put my heart into my playing, trying to turn off that part of my mind that tells me that I'm not good enough, etc.
But also take into account that I don't play in a band these days - I know that in a band, where songs are the focus, that often the simplest bass line can often be the most supportive and best for the song. I'm lucky that I can make music for myself without worrying what other people think. I try and make music that uses the sounds of the bass that I want to hear, and instead of it being buried underneath other instruments, I can make that the focus of the song.
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I like to light it up and take a lead line once or twice around and I like to start some tunes with a nice catchy line. Showing off a little is always good ;D.
It's the self indulgent 3 minute stand alone, it's all about me bass thing that I can't handle. Like nofi says, in jazz it's kind of a law that each member of the band do this, and it does work to some extent. Still, I think it works better without it most of the time. When you're Stanley Clark, Jaco, Ron Carter or Ray Brown you're kind of in a different class and I'm OK with whatever they want to do :P.
Rick
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you lie, rick. this is the real you. :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk
more of a vertical, electric drum solo imo.
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I wish the SNL Bass-Off skit was available online. Anyone else remember it? From about 10 years ago, with Jack Black and Will Ferrell (who both normally annoy me) playing bassists trying to outdo each other with self-indulgent solos.
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Pekka Pohjola played some fine solos on his albums and this is my favourite solo of his (starts at 4:20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_zFKgJQMcDU#t=251s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_zFKgJQMcDU#t=251s)
They even doubled it with guitar when played live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z8BbytwyCyQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z8BbytwyCyQ)
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you lie, rick. this is the real you. :mrgreen:
Nah, I would have a bass with flashing dots and fire spitting out the head piece. Oops, there is no headpiece :o.
Rick
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Regarding The Who: Wowie! And Wowie Zowie! Where did Entwhistle get his ideas of bass playing? That galopping style, those myriads of tones... And just to watch Moons looney smile behind the skins.... Oj! Oj! Oj!, as we pronounce it over here!
I think Entwistle's style HAD to evolve from his years of playing with Moon...similar excessive unorthodox fills while still somehow holding down the rhythm. Very distinctive and unlike any other rhythm section. Almost hard to believe that a bass and drummer playing like that could actually keep a rhythm going...almost like Townshend was more the rhythm section at times.
I've been a Who fan since I was a little kid and Entwistle was one of my main influences when I first started playing.
My drummer of many years absolutely HATED...REALLY HATED...Keith Moon's playing and was more from the Bonham/Bruford/Peart school of drumming.
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I have never met a drummer that like moon's playing. Guitarists usually just want a metronome so they can solo over it..
Just us bass players love it.....
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I have never met a drummer that like moon's playing. Guitarists usually just want a metronome so they can solo over it..
Just us bass players love it.....
I can't stick Moon's playing (see what I did there?). I've always seen him as by far image over substance. For me it was JAE who carried that band.
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Got to second that... I thought he was a good drummer and a great British eccentric with JAE being a lead bassist and PT on rhythm... no denying RD's voice mind you...
I still hold the belief that virtually nothing of worth was produced post Moon; yes that's controversial but it's purely an opinion...
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Here's a bass intro that I used to love and play around with. I never worked the whole thing out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNJqVW2L5is
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I love Keith Moon's drumming, as well as that of his lovechild Clem Burke.
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Chris White in The Zombies (UK) made quite an impact with his very short, melodic, and dynamic bass solo between first refrain, and second verse, in the bands first hit, She's not there. The two tones at the start of the song ain't to bad either! And the bass? Well, check and see, one more time for me, as The Marvelletes once put it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5IRI4oHKNU
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Good one! We could dig up a million Chris Squire examples, but I thought that at least one Dennis Dunaway example needed to be posted. I always loved how he floated around a song. IMO, Alice lost a key element in the sound when Dennis was gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx-OHqDzmbM
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Good one! We could dig up a million Chris Squire examples, but I thought that at least one Dennis Dunaway example needed to be posted. I always loved how he floated around a song. IMO, Alice lost a key element in the sound when Dennis was gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx-OHqDzmbM
Stealing Lou Reed's guitar players was a good idea. His rhythm section, not so much.
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Most bass solos suffer from what most drum solos suffer from - they are not engulfed by the other instruments' harmony and rhythm. It astounds me to this day why most people take that for granted.
Don't tell me a bass solo cannot be musical and add to a song, here at 5.28:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0BEroa1Gyc
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Nice example, Uwe. That solo was done with economy and taste. Very tasteful.
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Listen to Scott LaFaro
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Listen to Scott LaFaro
I used to have a double album set of bass solos that was released in the early 70s (I think) . Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Charlie Mingus, Stanley Clarke(the new guy), Monk Montgomery, Scott LaFaro and a whole bunch of others. Scott LaFaro did some of what I would consider the best of all of them.
Rick
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Most bass solos suffer from what most drum solos suffer from - they are not engulfed by the other instruments' harmony and rhythm. It astounds me to this day why most people take that for granted.
Don't tell me a bass solo cannot be musical and add to a song, here at 5.28:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0BEroa1Gyc
VERY NICE. I've always tended to noodle like that, but never did it live. I just can't get into all of those Bass Player mag type solo stuff, not that I can't appreciate the talent and time that is there.
One of my biggest influences as a bass player is David Gilmour!
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i think a true solo should be spontaneous and improvised. that's why jazz guys are so good (musically educated) and most rock guys suck. that little solo was nice but sounds composed. on the other hand jaco wrote many of his solos as well. go figure.
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I think there's a middle ground. If you're familiar with the number and have played it many times, you have the chance to "noodle around" in your practice time and translate that approach into performance. It's not necessarily composed, but it may be comfortable territory.
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One of my biggest influences as a bass player is David Gilmour!
Ha ha! Nice! Roger Waters once said, if he ever got an award for bass playing, he would give it to Gilmour.
Back to solos - ugh, I may be forced into it soon. Subbing with some local monster players, and I know the guy who's on his way out always does a solo. If it comes up, I'm going to suggest a good song with busy bass instead, like the Real Me, or Freewill or something. Or maybe some unison riffing with the guitarist, ala Vai/Sheehan. I'm close to nailing the (guitar) solo in Crazy Train. LOL!
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that little solo was nice but sounds composed.
That solo is a note for note copy of the original recording with Mo Foster on the fretless bass. It's on the album Victum Of The Future (starts at 3:15).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGTsBiw4o5c
I don't have problem with composed solos. Sometimes they're like a song within a song.
But when people slavishly copy someone else's solo there's a chance it may get a little boring. (which IMHO was the case in this Gary Moore video)
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That poor bassist didn't have a chance to vary! As did Mo Foster (whom I rate highly)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZCXTaOxGwg
as the melody is/was composed by the late Herr Moore and he was always adamant that things are played his way (as many bassists with him - Neil Murray, Bob Daisley, Glenn Hughes to name but a few - have confirmed with a tired shrug). Still, bass solo is bass solo, guitarist-written or not! Most guitar solos are composed these days and nobody gives a flying f***.
My guess is though that Moore was more than a little inspired by what Roger Glover did on MWFT, 3.00:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmyE70HM39k
He has meanwhile varied it somewhat and Herr Morse has given it a country influence too it, 3.08, diese Amerikaner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv6LCXZZj2w
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Chris White in The Zombies (UK) made quite an impact with his very short, melodic, and dynamic bass solo between first refrain, and second verse, in the bands first hit, She's not there. The two tones at the start of the song ain't to bad either! And the bass? Well, check and see, one more time for me, as The Marvelletes once put it!
I've always LOVED the bass part to this song. Great hook. Bass sort of reminds me of "Livin' On A Prayer" by Bon Jovi.
Rod Argent is still my fave rock keyboardist.
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Great players are kind of always soloing. Even within the structure of a "bass line" there is alot of room to add variation upon themes. Seeing Phil Lesh's line for Scarlet Begonias in Bass Player illustrates this point. His playing still provides a foundation while at the same time adds rhythmic variation and makes room for melodic outbursts. Jamerson could also be very subtly nuanced in the way he put his lines together as well. Andy Fraser definitely never played the same lines over and over again. That's what separates good players from great ones. Jazz Rock our whatever category is irrelvant. It's all music.
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One of my favorites has to be David Marign's solo on the Marathon track "Runnin'".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh0WfZ4twes
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Roberto... welcome home...!