The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: rockinrayduke on January 10, 2009, 11:37:19 AM
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....and it's really going quite well!
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505003 (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505003)
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"I just did a quick search and it seems that alot of the opinions around here are that you have a big ego and you wank alot."
Yeah, if he can handle that one graciously, he should do OK. I can't believe he had the balls to say that.
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"I just did a quick search and it seems that alot of the opinions around here are that you have a big ego and you wank alot."
Yeah, if he can handle that one graciously, he should do OK. I can't believe he had the balls to say that.
If you had seen his performance on The Bottom Line mailing list about 10 years ago, you'd understand the comment. It's not that his opinions were bad, it's the way he ridiculed and belittled anyone who disagreed with him and beat everything to death. Huge chip on his shoulder.
I'm not interested in reading the discussion, but if he's learned to express his views without being a jerk about it, so much the better.
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Though there was some moderation everyone including Jeff showed admirable restraint....a very civil conversation. Funniest part for me was how many TBer's didn't know who he was.
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That's what killed me about the quote I pulled and posted here..."I have no idea who you are, but these other people do and they think you're a meanie." ;D
Dave, I've never met or interacted with the man but I've heard a few Jeff Berlin stories. Huge chip on his shoulder is right. Reading the thread, I kept asking myself, "what kind of meds is he taking?" There's one part where he talks about the accolades he's received through his career, and how he never thought he deserved them. Really bizarre disclosure.
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I've never heard anyone tell a first hand story about dealing with the guy. I have read quite a few columns written by him along with several interviews. He always left me with the impression that he was a first class jerk that pretty much hated everyone that he didn't feel viewed musical ability/knowledge the same way that he did. Hopefully for him he has mellowed out a bit.
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I think I'm in a small camp of people that appreciate his candor more than his playing. He's probably done anything we've ever dreamed of, but I put him in the "he's great but not my cup of tea" category. He didn't remember his old TB forum, but I do. He gave me some excellent advice on my playing technique back then. You can find my posting at about 11:00 yesterday.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6at4jSG3cUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0MiOEIG2M
For the ones who don't know what Berlin is all about.
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Jeff Berlin is a fusion player. :bored: No offense to fusion fans, but does a smaller market than fusion even exist? Even Tuvan throat singers and Moldovan folk singers are probably more popular. That takes nothing away from his talent, but it does explain why a lot of people haven't heard of him and some of those who have heard of him don't care.
I've never heard anyone tell a first hand story about dealing with the guy.
I have. Andy McRory (longtime moderator at FDP) attended one of his week long sessions some years ago and said he was very nice and very helpful, not at all like his old online personality would lead you to think.
I used to read some of his BP columns back in the 90s. I agreed with some of his views. What got me was that he came across like somebody had anointed him everybody's Bass Education Czar. That did turn some people off.
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I agree with you Dave. Some of his columns had some excellent advice. But sometimes he just came across as an ass. At times it was more how he said something, not what he said. He did seem like a self appointed BASSGOD. I have nothing against his playing abilities tho.
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I don't know about his personality, but those 2 clips (thanx Blazer) were boring noodley crap that went nowhere.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. most of these bass gods are too pretentious for me. i've known about Billy Sheenan for years (wife bass,yamaha etc.) though i don't think i've ever heard his music,just from bass magazines.
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I don't know about his personality, but those 2 clips (thanx Blazer) were boring noodley crap that went nowhere.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. most of these bass gods are too pretentious for me. i've known about Billy Sheenan for years (wife bass,yamaha etc.) though i don't think i've ever herd his music,just from bass magazines.
When my son started to play, I took him to a clinic by Sheehan. He was funny, down-to-earth, and had some great stories and advice. That said, I also don't get a lot of what he does. He's phenomenal to watch - all eight fingers have assignments, and he gets a flurry of notes with very little hand/wrist movement. I'm most familiar with his stuff with DLR, but the songs in Mr. Big were very much a solid and simple foundation. I haven't listened to any of his fusion stuff, but I can imagine that I'd not care for it.
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I started reading Berlin's educational columns when he was wrtining for a long-dead magazine called "International Musician & Recording World". I followed his columns in Guitar Player Magazine too, because I love his no BS approach to education. The whole thing about music rather than the bass being the primary focus still rings true. And I went to a Jeff Berlin seminar a local store had. I found him much more entertaining in person than his written personae- funny, engaging, and smart. He explained his anti-metronome stance. He's right as far as it goes, but I still disagree with him on that one. And I personally challenged his TBL assertion that all fretless bassists sound like Jaco. He agreed that not ALL do (Jack Bruce, Boz Burrell, Freebo, and Rick Danko for example), but asserted that the Jaco influence is pervasive enough to make most post-Jaco fretless players have difficulty NOT sounding like Jaco.
The problem I see wtih Jeff's public image is that there's not much nuance in his writing- and lack of nuance is the enemy of truth. When I got a chance to talk with him one-on-one about fretless players, I found that in most ways we agreed, but his defensive responses in The Bottom Line to the question were just about as reactionary as most of the responses to HIS posts. The guy who said he'd never heard any Jaco, but learned fretless from Pino and therefore didn't sound like Jaco was one of the more ludicrious ones- just because you got it second-hand doesn't mean it ain't there!
And as for his playing? Well, if you only listen to solo wanking then that's the impression you'll have of him. But if you listen to his work with Bill Bruford ("Gradually Going Tornado" was my introduction to his playing) and his more recent jazz work especially wtih Rick Drexler you'll find a great musician.
He's also got bad-ass skills on learning stuff fast- one of his arguments for being a well-rounded musician rather than just a bass player. He got a call to sub for Chris Squire at the last minute years ago. They called him one day, and sent recordings of the songs. He was transcribing them on the flight to England, did a day of rehearsals, and played the tour. He was able to do it because he'd spent time transcribing everything that sounded good to him, and doing it without an instrument in his hands. He's a huge fan of Cannonball Adderley's sax playing and that's a big influence on his soloing.
jte
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I used to like Jeff Berlin's column in Guitar Player magazine back in the early '80s - he would usually have some crazy musical exercise with a funny title. Then when he started writing in Bass Player in the '90s the bitterness and anger started creeping in.
I saw him at a clinic in around '89 or '90 and there were traces of the bitterness and he seemed tired when he was signing stuff (I think I got him to sign a copy of Bass Player that had his article), but he wasn't too bad.
He definitely loses me when he makes absolute dogmatic statements about stuff like metronomes and tablature. He often has a valid point but slathers it in such venom. Apparently at some clinic within the last couple of years he had a discussion with Steve Bailey (6 string fretless guy) in front of an audience and finally seemed to come to a realization that his anger was turning people off.
My favorite Jeff Berlin playing is probably with Bill Bruford.
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DON'T TRUST ANYONE WITH A MOUSTACHE!
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I don't know about his personality, but those 2 clips (thanx Blazer) were boring noodley crap that went nowhere.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. most of these bass gods are too pretentious for me. i've known about Billy Sheenan for years (wife bass,yamaha etc.) though i don't think i've ever herd his music,just from bass magazines.
Heh listen to THIS...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjWu9p-GTT4
And he also has the right attitude for this forum. "Having more than four strings on your bass doesn't make you a better musician."
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:bored:
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What's boring to some is poetry to others. ;)
One man's Precision is another man's Thunderbird.
It's all good.
:mrgreen:
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Heh listen to THIS...
:puke: :puke: :puke:
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barf emoticon here :bored:
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:mrgreen:
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I have no problems listening to bands like YES or Becks, Blow by Blow or Wired but find that last clip, as SKATE RAT put it (http://bassoutpost.com/Smileys/default/yellowsleep.gif)
I have no explanation for why this is so but will restrain myself from becoming as animated as Dave ;)
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If Fusion is something that winds up being a bunch of chord changes that lead to nowhere and essentially do nothing but confuse the listeners sense of timing, and crescendo after crescendo followed by self indulgent solos that may be very difficult to play , but are even more difficult to listen to ..........then yeah, IMO Fusion sucks. Any type of music that is based on this type of foundation(which IMO is no foundation at all) sucks
Some of the Beck stuff that was mentioned and Chick Corea/ Stanley Clarke and tons of other stuff I like alot. If it has a groove , I can dig it :)
If it doesn't, I can't >:(. For me, this applies to any type of music.
Rick
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I like Berlin with Bruford, enjoyed those albums. Now the other stuff where he's playing Clapton's solo from Crossroads I can do without. Pretty wanky.
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If Fusion is something that winds up being a bunch of chord changes that lead to nowhere and essentially do nothing but confuse the listeners sense of timing, and crescendo after crescendo followed by self indulgent solos that may be very difficult to play , but are even more difficult to listen to ..........then yeah, IMO Fusion sucks. Any type of music that is based on this type of foundation(which IMO is no foundation at all) sucks
Some of the Beck stuff that was mentioned and Chick Corea/ Stanley Clarke and tons of other stuff I like alot. If it has a groove , I can dig it :)
If it doesn't, I can't >:(. For me, this applies to any type of music.
Rick
Rick that is about as good a description as I have ever heard. I might borrow your description for use in other places if I may?
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I think Zappa summed up the kind of music I like. It has to have balls. I dont care what or how, but has to have big balls.
You guys failed to mention one of my favorite fusion / country bands - The Dregs.
They covered every type of music and opened my eyes to country chicken picking.
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Rick that is about as good a description as I have ever heard. I might borrow your description for use in other places if I may?
Thanks , and feel free. I would be honored :)
Rick
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Yep the Dregs play music with an almost toungue in cheek attitude which (for me at least) takes all of the pretensiousness out of it and makes it good fun while still being virtuosic.