The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: drbassman on January 07, 2014, 08:12:16 AM
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At least they are trying! I was chatting with Curt from the HOG yesterday and he said he got a notice that Guild is coming out with M-85 reissues, made overseas at an MSRP of $1200. I assume it will be from the same factory as the Starfire reissue. Gonna stop in there tomorrow to see the info he has on it. At least when Guild does a reissue, it's pretty darn close to the original, at least cosmetically and hardware wise. I think the weakness of the Starfire is in the pickup and the poly finish. The rest of it is pretty darn nice.
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Solid or hollow body? Happy Happy Joy Joy
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Solid or hollow body? Happy Happy Joy Joy
Not sure, hopefully I'll find out tomorrow when I stop by the shop.
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Interesting! ... though there ain't a chance I'll be able to get one.
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Cool! I'd love to see it! The only thing I don't like about the Starfire RI is the pickup location.
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Cool! I'd love to see it! The only thing I don't like about the Starfire RI is the pickup location.
If the M-85 has 2 pups, it might sound pretty good compared to the Starfire RI.
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If it's an M85 II that would be the only right configuration ;)
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If it's an M85 II that would be the only right configuration ;)
We'll see! I couldn't get over to the shop yesterday or today, so will probably check in tomorrow.
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maybe the only bass I really have GAS for. better find a job quickly.....
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As much as I love a neck pickup - the solo pickup on the new Starfire actually does a pretty good job. With the tone rolled off, it can provide a nice thump. Not as dark as the Midtown, but rounder and fuller than a P-bass.
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They could go with either sludgebuckers or bi-sonics for the pickups. Wonder which ones they pick.
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Most likely the Bi-Sonics. Since they rebuilt those for the Starfire they already have them. Business wise that would make more sense then rebuilding the humbucker.
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Nobody bothered to look at the site?
It's already there;)
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3791100806
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Only in black... :(
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Yep, I found out today, too. Semi-hollow body. I like what I see so far. Cherry finish would be nice!
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$1700 list for MIK? No thanks.
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$1700 list for MIK? No thanks.
I agree, it is higher than I thought it would be. Street price would be over a grand.
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Nobody bothered to look at the site?
It's already there;)
http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3791100806
it wasn't there yesterday.
Too bad it doesn't have two pickups...
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Too bad it has one pickup and only in black... I was loooking forward to seeing it, but no... No GAS. Maybe good...
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Well, I will reserve final judgment after I play one. A lot will depend on the feel of the neck and sound for me. I like black basses, got a couple of them and one pup is good for me. At this price point it still is a good price compared to gretsches.
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That's very boring looking. :bored: Needs more knobs and switches. And another pickup. And more colors to choose from...
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Not that I could buy one either way, but BOO! re pup position, personally.
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Well, I will reserve final judgment after I play one. A lot will depend on the feel of the neck and sound for me. I like black basses, got a couple of them and one pup is good for me. At this price point it still is a good price compared to gretsches.
That's true. Gretsch takes a back seat only to Gibson in overpricing mass-produced basses.
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Whoops?
5000 USD?
I think not.
http://guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3820300888 (http://guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3820300888)
(http://media.fmicdirect.com/guild/images/products/guitars/3820300888_frt_wmd_001.png)
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Whoops?
5000 USD?
I think not.
http://guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3820300888 (http://guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3820300888)
(http://media.fmicdirect.com/guild/images/products/guitars/3820300888_frt_wmd_001.png)
Just insane! I love the bass, hate the price!!!
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That's very boring looking. :bored: Needs more knobs and switches. And another pickup. And more colors to choose from...
One could always add another pup. ;D
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Just insane! I love the bass, hate the price!!!
When the RI costs more than the originals that are still out there, I would just walk away. Isn't the purpose of the RI to make an affordable replica of the rare and often expensive original? Seems to me, someone got their thinking reversed.
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When the RI costs more than the originals that are still out there, I would just walk away. Isn't the purpose of the RI to make an affordable replica of the rare and often expensive original? Seems to me, someone got their thinking reversed.
The concept of a USA made RI is a good one, but the marketing folks sure have their heads up their butts. If they couldn't do it for under $3000 MSRP, they should just have skipped it. I have to say, the quality of the build looks excellent and consistency when compared to an original is excellent. Guild is to be commended there. I too would rather spend 3 or 4 grand on a vintage one before I'd lay out this kind of cash for an RI. Carlo's comments on vintage basses are right on, too.
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That's true. Gretsch takes a back seat only to Gibson in overpricing mass-produced basses.
I think Guild just booted Gretsch into second place in terms of pricing stupidity. Mass produced or not! :P
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What brain genius photoshopped the tuner buttons out of that pic?
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And I paid $225 for this way back when...
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/gweimer/GuildM85_1.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/gweimer/media/GuildM85_1.jpg.html)
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Perhaps the folks at Guild know something we don't about the future value of the US dollar. They're just trying to stay ahead of the Zimbabwe like inflationary curve we will be experiencing in the not to distant future.
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It's only $4500 MSRP, the shock must have made you misread it. :)
I think Guild just booted Gretsch into second place in terms of pricing stupidity. Mass produced or not! :P
Remember, this is all Fender marketing and pricing. Since Fender owns Guild and owns the marketing rights to Gretsch, they'll have to kick themselves.
This is an American made limited edition, the equivalent of a Fender Custom Shop piece. Have you priced any FCS instruments in the past two or three years? There's nothing available at a street price under $3K. I think MSRPs start at $4300 now, and those are for the "regular" CS models. How about a Pino Palladino Precision at $5800 MSRP, or the Limited Edition Geddy Lee 1972 J at $7600 MSRP?
Hell, at $4500 MSRP this is a bargain! I'll take two! ;D
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Sorry, I meant to say Fender has its head up its ass when pricing RIs.
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The prices sure seem outrageously high to me. OTOH the FCS prices have been up there for two or three years now, which tells me they must be selling well enough to keep that pricing. It's hard to imagine this happening with the Guilds, but time will tell.
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Due to the exclusivity $4500 makes more sense to me than a $2000 street price off the shelf 2014 Thunderbird. Not that I'll be buying either.
Marketing 101, create a demand then fill it. The $1500 - $2000 Korean version will look reasonable if/when it gets made.
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Yep, the korean one will look pretty reasonable in comparison.
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I think Guild just booted Gretsch into second place in terms of pricing stupidity. Mass produced or not! :P
I meant Guild but had Gretsch on the mind so I Gretsched when I should have Guilded. No matter, I think the overpricing is consistent with them thar G-brand instruments.
And for what Fender charges for CS instruments, they ought to be hand-carved by a dedicated captive cadre of Master Craftsman Leprechauns.
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I meant Guild but had Gretsch on the mind so I Gretsched when I should have Guilded. No matter, I think the overpricing is consistent with them thar G-brand instruments.
And for what Fender charges for CS instruments, they ought to be hand-carved by a dedicated captive cadre of Master Craftsman Leprechauns.
On the subject of overpricing:
Yesterday a drummer buddy and I were reminiscing. We both entered the University of Florida in 1964. In state tuition was $226 a year. A new EB-3 was $285. Tuition is now $6300 a year and an SG Standard Bass is $1000.
BTW, $300 in 1964 adjusting for inflation (4.18%) was $2,118 in 2013. $226 was $1680.
Are they building a better education these days?
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Are they building a better education these days?
That can be debated, but expenses have gone up because institutions are being required by legislation and market competition to provide more and better facilities, and a whole range of services which weren't included a few decades ago. Also, funding for public institutions at the federal and state level has been reduced an average of nearly 50% (from the mid-60% level in the 60's to the mid-teens percentage recently). It's not meaningful to compare the two because the cost factors in each industry are very different.
That isn't to say that tuition hasn't gone up incredibly, and much more at some schools than others. I think that all the add-ons schools have done over the past 20 years have been important in driving the cost up. Better dorms, more workout facilities, more food options, upgraded student centers....there's a long list. Students won't settle for the same kinds of facilities we did in the 60's and 70's. This is also a reason that many Greek houses are in trouble - they can't afford to update their buildings, create private sleeping rooms (instead of barracks-style dorms), upgrade kitchens, remodel bathrooms so a dozen people aren't sharing them...a long list. I've been in President's foundation and board meetings where these factors have been discussed.
I remember that my first semester at WSU as an undergrad, I wrote a check for $176 tuition for 15 credit hours. I don't recall the fees associated with that. Last year one semester's tuition and fees at the same institution were $5693. I should note that just in the last four years, the state reduced funding to WSU more than 50%...and they have had to raise tuition by double digit percentages more than once as a result. Still, the increase is mind-blowing.
We got our daughters through college with no debt, but we got a discount for their attending the university where we worked, we had a savings plan with funds ready, and they both worked 20-30+ hours a week every week throughout college. It's REALLY hard to get a kid through college without debt these days.
That's probably more than anyone here wants to know. :P
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Are they building a better education these days? Good question Carlo. At the primary and secondary levels, the answer is a definitive "no" based on student outcomes and world competitiveness. At the college level, it depends. I'll start a new education thread if you want to chat about this in detail. Lots of variables and issues in this topic!
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Are they building a better education these days? Good question Carlo. At the primary and secondary levels, the answer is a definitive "no" based on student outcomes and world competitiveness. At the college level, it depends. I'll start a new education thread if you want to chat about this in detail. Lots of variables and issues in this topic!
I'm with you on the comment about primary and secondary levels, Bill. There are some areas where students are definitely weaker than decades ago. Start a thread if you wish - wouldn't mind sharing observations with you and others.
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(http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-3P4RX8W8-D.jpg)
I've never seen one in real life, but according to Rob this new reissue has a much deeper body than the original. it's very light. Of course it's made in the Gretsch Electromatic factory, so it could be a Gretsch 6120-ish body, without f-holes and with Guild hardware mounted...
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The body of the black one above (not my NAMM pic, but the one on the ground) has quite a deep body, but not as deep as this one I think.
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The Gretsch 5123 reissue that came out thru GC was about an inch deeper in the body than a standard 335-style bass. Might come from that "family ".
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(http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-3P4RX8W8-D.jpg)
I've never seen one in real life, but according to Rob this new reissue has a much deeper body than the original. it's very light. Of course it's made in the Gretsch Electromatic factory, so it could be a Gretsch 6120-ish body, without f-holes and with Guild hardware mounted...
Yep, that's deeper than an original or the $4000 USA made reissue. Looks nice so far! I'm not a big fan of the pup placement, but maybe it works, we'll see when I get my hands on one.
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This might be the result of the bass Mgod had loaned Fender to copy. I thought he had some input but that thread was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
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This might be the result of the bass Mgod had loaned Fender to copy. I thought he had some input but that thread was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
Oh yeah. Was that the one he stripped down to the wood and did in a natural finish? It was one of thicker ones as I recall. Somewhat rare I think.
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I may be wrong, so someone correct me, but the solid body versions were much thinner and heavier. The semi-hollow body version (like my black one in the picture) was thicker and lighter. It was those models that were fewer in number.
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Okay, so Guild made two versions. I'm not an expert so good to know! Can anybody tell more? Maybe production years, other differences?
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I've shared all I know about them!!! Not much, eh. :P
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mgod would know the answer. He is a member here, though he hasn't logged in in a couple of years. You could always PM him.
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To me that M-85 that Chris pictured looks exactly the same width as the '67-68 (1st) version I had (I had the 2 pickup version in ebony)I recall it being semihollow as it was't too heavy. I did not like the thick body, so I sold it some years ago during the m-85 " craze". I also had the m-85 II from 1975 totally solid which I DS'd.
The one you might be talking about mgod's was the same body width ( m-85 first version)that he got from Phil Lesh (or something along with Alembic workings/ modifications).
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To me that M-85 that Chris pictured looks exactly the same width as the '67-68 (1st) version I had (I had the 2 pickup version in ebony)I recall it being semihollow as it was't too heavy. I did not like the thick body, so I sold it some years ago during the m-85 " craze". I also had the m-85 II from 1975 totally solid which I DS'd.
The one you might be talking about mgod's was the same body width ( m-85 first version)that he got from Phil Lesh (or something along with Alembic workings/ modifications).
I like the fat body, more acoustic sounding, I hope.
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I do not recall the the 1st series of the M-85 being very acoustic sounding. It did not have any f holes. (MGOD'S did as I recall but that is a different story). It did have the block running through the middle so I suppose you would call it chambered. It will get down to how you like the feel of this bass with it's rather small but thick body and how you like to hold it etc. and the sound. If I were them I might have gone with the solid M-85 as it is different than the Starfire so you have the different sound & feel options.
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I thionk they never had f-holes? The new one at the NAMM is very light. Like I said earlier, it's like they took just a Gretsch body and mounted Guild hardware and a Guild neck on it.
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My M-85 had a very Ronnie Lane sound going on.
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I thionk they never had f-holes? The new one at the NAMM is very light. Like I said earlier, it's like they took just a Gretsch body and mounted Guild hardware and a Guild neck on it.
Well, it may be Gretsch style construction, but Gretsch doesn't make any basses that deep in the Les Paul shape. Gretsches tend to be bigger,like the Broadkaster. The Thunder Jet might be the closest to the M-85, but it is a hollowed out mahogany back with a cap (like a Gibson Midtown) so it has a more solid feel and tone quality to it. If the M-85 RI is more hollow, I think that would be good and a nice departure from the other LP-shaped basses currently on the market. Might have some Hofner-esque tonality with a hollow body and no f-holes.
You're right, I've never seen an M-85 with f-holes. BTW, as I get older, light basses are very attractive to me!
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There is info on the Phil Lesh custom Guild hollowbody M-85 with f-holes halfway down the page: http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html (http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html)
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Looks nice!
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There is info on the Phil Lesh custom Guild hollowbody M-85 with f-holes halfway down the page: http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html (http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html)
True, but that was a custom instrument. In regular production, Guild didn't put F-holes in any of the M-85 models.
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There is info on the Phil Lesh custom Guild hollowbody M-85 with f-holes halfway down the page: http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html (http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html)
What a story! Dan (mgod), Rick Turner, Phil Lesh and even Glen Quan.
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Cool historical stuff.
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Got it yesterday. Detailed review to follow.
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Bill, Glad you snagged it! I was pretty impressed with it. I'd buy one but I am trying to stick to my USA or vintage rule.
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Bill, Glad you snagged it! I was pretty impressed with it. I'd buy one but I am trying to stick to my USA or vintage rule.
I hear ya. It will probably end up being my only foreign bass except for my Thunder Jet. So far, I really like it. More to come tomorrow.
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Looking forward to a full report.
FYI - The folks over on Let's Talk Guild say the pickup on the M-85 and Starfire reissues talked about here are in the "sweet spot".
Plus a photo from last night playing a hollowbody M-85 II.
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Got it yesterday. Detailed review to follow.
Is this the fat bodied M-85?
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The hollow one. Guild was famous for its inconsistencies, so I'm not sure if there were more than one versions. There could be. That one is from 1970.
The depth makes it feel awkward at first, especially if you have horrible technique and rest your forearm on the top of the bass like I often do. In fact, I credit that bass with getting me to better position my right arm no matter which bass I play. A silver lining!
Anyway, back to the topic, I'm looking forward to hearing more from the Doctor about the new version. The price point is not bad when you consider the price of a Bisonic copy alone.
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Nice bass Happy Face! I'm envious.
Well, here's the review. First the good:
1. Excellent finish, for poly! Really is beautiful and flawless, and thick! I couldn't find any mistakes anywhere.
2. The frets are perfect. Good quality Grover tuners.
3. Guild gets the reissue idea IMHO. Everything is the same or close to the original: body shape; headstock inlay; the neck profile is right on and not for ham-handed bassists; bridge is as it should be and beautiful; yellowed binding for a nice vintage look; the Bi-sonic pickup is a dead ringer for the original (can't testify to the sound vs. the original)
4. The electronics: the volume control has a small range, although I always play full on anyway. Once you turn it to 5 or so, it doesn't get much louder at full-on 9. Tone about the same. The pup sounds really nice through my B-15, I need to adjust the screws a bit as the e-string is a tad louder than the rest (more on this later). Will give it a go through the Mesa full bore on Wednesday night. I didn't initially like the pup placement, but it sounds pretty darn good to my ears. I may have been wrong about it. I was initially going by cosmetics and my experience with a vintage Guild Starfire I once had with the same placement. It had a weak nasal tone and I sold it. This doesn't seem to have the same issue. Not sure which variables were coming into play, but this bass sounds much better to my ears.
5. A case! Big deal you say? Well, it may drive the price point up a bit, but a nice case is really a nice touch. Thanks Guild.
Impressions: The bass is a nice exercise in simplicity. There's little clutter. A single pup and no switches is a departure from the M-85 II model. The neck is a beauty if you like them narrow and thinner than most. For me, it's perfect. I love the profile and feel of it. It's just a bit neck heavy with those big Grovers, but nothing worse than some old Gibsons we know and love.
An interesting illusion occurs with the bass design. Because they mount the neck heel at the 18th. fret, the neck almost looks like a long scale, which it is not. The bass looks bigger, longer, than it really is because of this. I don't find the thicker body a problem. It's comfy for me.
I also suspect some of the bass' strong sound/output is due to the lack of f-holes. When I played the reissue Starfire recently, I didn't find the same pup in the same placement as strong or bassy. If I had, I probably would have bought that one, too. I am beginning to suspect that f-holes, while often cosmetically appealing and lending basses a different tonality, might actually bleed off some of the omph of the pup and some lower bass frequencies. A closed hollow body does have some pleasing tonality to my ears.
The bad:
1. Made in Korea! Really, I'd love it if it were made in USA, but Guild's US prices are in the stratosphere. The MSRP on this is $1699 and online sellers are already pushing it down to $1100 - 1200. Too much for a MIK? Maybe, but a MIJ Gretsch is easily 50 - 80% higher and not any better quality IMO. So, it's a matter of taste and reality.
2. Did I mention quality? Oh yeah, I did. Well, there is one flaw on this bass that I didn't notice in the shop. The bridge is not installed squarely. The harp bridge only uses 2 screws. On mine, the left screw is just a mm or two lower than the right. This tilts the bridge slightly and makes the e- and a-strings ride just a little crooked in the saddles. How did I notice it? The e-string popped out of the saddle when I plucked it with some force. I slid it back in, payed some more and pop! The a-string doesn't pop out with force. So, I grabbed a nut file and deepened the slot just a bit, and all is fixed. The e-string is now louder since it's a mm or so closer to the pup, so I'll have to adjust the other pup screws for balance.
3. I couldn't find anything else wrong with it (except for MIK :P).
More Impressions: The bridge is not an issue now, but you guys know me! I am torn between just leaving it alone as it works fine now, fixing it (ala filling and re-drilling the bridge screw hole) or just getting another one without the same flaw. I might call the shop today and see if they have another in stock or coming in. That would be an easy fix!
Bottom line: I love the bass overall and will keep it (or one like it). The only thing that would make me sell it is if it sucks through my Mesa rig. Practice will be a fun test.
Aside: I am going to pop the pup and look inside. I want to see the construction of the pup from underneath and I want to see the channel they use to run the knobs and jack from the pup. I've decided to try this same design on my own basses. It means fishing the stuff through the channels (which I've gotten better at doing), but it eliminates the need for a back control cavity or cover. I love the clean look and feel of the no-control cavity design.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Basses/DSCN0179_zpse1a1aa0e.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Basses/DSCN0179_zpse1a1aa0e.jpg.html)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Basses/DSCN0180_zpsa5d78f20.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Basses/DSCN0180_zpsa5d78f20.jpg.html)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Basses/DSCN0182_zps509d53e0.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Basses/DSCN0182_zps509d53e0.jpg.html)
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A couple more observations: the top is spruce lam and the sides/back maple lam. The Guild web site says the top is spruce in one section and maple in another. Oops. The top is carved and nicely done. Wish I had the patience to do this. Maybe some day!
Oh yeah, I almost forgot the thumbs rests! A uniquely odd Guild holdover from the past. I've never cared for the double thumb rests on Guilds, but I have to say, the placement of the upper one on this bass is perfect for my style. I almost never use a pick and I usually pluck right where the rests are placed on this bass. So, a win-win for me. I'm sure not everyone would want one or both. Maybe just including them in the case for those folks who don't want the bass with them already installed. Just a thought.
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Lovely bass, Bill. It does have a look of simplicity - very clean.
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Lovely bass, Bill. It does have a look of simplicity - very clean.
I agree Al. It has a lot of charm and positives. Now if they could just get the bridge on straight........ :o
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Thanks for the in-depth review. I'm pleased to hear that the pickup placement seems to make sense. Maybe there is a "sweet spot."
That bridge placement error has to be damn annoying. The reviews of the MIK Starfires on LTG suggest that there is inconsistent quality from that factory. Things like uncentered skunk stripes and unaligned tuners. But only on the occasional bass.
Speaking of the bridge: does the E string intonate properly? Specifically, can you slide the saddle up enough so the string is short enough? I've had to extend the slots on both of my Guilds.
Looking forward to reading how it sounds through the Mesa!!
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I had to re-read your post and look at the largest bridge photo to see that the strings are just slightly different on each half of the bridge. Due to the design of that bridge, I'm confident that no one will ever be able to see that it's 2MM out of level. If it intonates properly you might just want to decide that it doesn't matter.
But for any bass in the $1000 range, I think you're entitled to have it right.
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The shine on your Guild, Bill, is so good you can almost see the whiskers on your kitty...! ;)
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Thanks for the detailed review.
I am beginning to suspect that f-holes, while often cosmetically appealing and lending basses a different tonality, might actually bleed off some of the omph of the pup and some lower bass frequencies
F-holes in the violin family instruments are there to make the area of the top around the bridge more flexible and consequently the sound has more high frequencies. But with a center block, I'm not sure if it matters that much. And the Guild obviously has a block.
IME, f-hole Höfner basses (like my Senator and 500/3 (http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/Hofner%20500-3/Senatorand500-3frontandback.jpg)) don't sound less fat and bassy compared to closed hollowbodies like the Beatle bass or 500/2 (the German-made ones without center blocks). If anything, they have more lows.
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Thanks for your in depth review and pictures Bill. I totally agree with your points on the older versions of the M-85. ( I had both the original wider Body 1968 version and the solid '74 version and they both had a nasal tone. i even DS'd the '74 and voila..nasal!). So I am intrigued by your review here and might have to try one on for size. On of the issues for me with my original '68 was the wide body and having to bend over to see what I Was doing. now older and my back might be slightly bent over anyhow so let's 'see'. Also agreed about the SF reissue last year. sound was not quite there and in the case of that one the pickup placement might have been better. Ya gotta like those thin necks however no matter what versions you get. No ham hands.
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Thanks for the in-depth review. I'm pleased to hear that the pickup placement seems to make sense. Maybe there is a "sweet spot."
That bridge placement error has to be damn annoying. The reviews of the MIK Starfires on LTG suggest that there is inconsistent quality from that factory. Things like uncentered skunk stripes and unaligned tuners. But only on the occasional bass.
Speaking of the bridge: does the E string intonate properly? Specifically, can you slide the saddle up enough so the string is short enough? I've had to extend the slots on both of my Guilds.
Looking forward to reading how it sounds through the Mesa!!
Amazingly, all 4 stings are intonated properly right out of the case. I'm shocked! Even with the off kilter bridge.
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I had to re-read your post and look at the largest bridge photo to see that the strings are just slightly different on each half of the bridge. Due to the design of that bridge, I'm confident that no one will ever be able to see that it's 2MM out of level. If it intonates properly you might just want to decide that it doesn't matter.
But for any bass in the $1000 range, I think you're entitled to have it right.
Hey Al, good news. They have another. So, I'll check it out tomorrow and see if it has the same flaw.
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The shine on your Guild, Bill, is so good you can almost see the whiskers on your kitty...! ;)
Good catch Kenny. That's Harley (named after Willie G.'s company), a cat we rescued from the streets of Rochester in December in single digit temps. He's a pill, about a year old and full of piss and vinegar. But he's my bud, so I let him live. ;)
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Thanks for the detailed review.
F-holes in the violin family instruments are there to make the area of the top around the bridge more flexible and consequently the sound has more high frequencies. But with a center block, I'm not sure if it matters that much. And the Guild obviously has a block.
IME, f-hole Höfner basses (like my Senator and 500/3 (http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/Hofner%20500-3/Senatorand500-3frontandback.jpg)) don't sound less fat and bassy compared to closed hollowbodies like the Beatle bass or 500/2 (the German-made ones without center blocks). If anything, they have more lows.
I agree to a point Ilan. I think a lot has to do with the variables of wood resonance, pickup quality and freq response, block or not, etc. I had the Senator RI and it was just plain dull, no life to it really. I didn't keep it. My Gibson EB 650 has a block, f-holes, maple body/neck, and TB pups. It sounds like a rip roaring solid body T-Bird. The variables are right in that case.
Interestingly, I can't find the right setting for my Hofner Club bass and the Mesa rig. It's all boom and mush. I'm still working on it, but it so far doesn't work well with the all tube Mesa.
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Thanks for your in depth review and pictures Bill. I totally agree with your points on the older versions of the M-85. ( I had both the original wider Body 1968 version and the solid '74 version and they both had a nasal tone. i even DS'd the '74 and voila..nasal!). So I am intrigued by your review here and might have to try one on for size. On of the issues for me with my original '68 was the wide body and having to bend over to see what I Was doing. now older and my back might be slightly bent over anyhow so let's 'see'. Also agreed about the SF reissue last year. sound was not quite there and in the case of that one the pickup placement might have been better. Ya gotta like those thin necks however no matter what versions you get. No ham hands.
The first priority for me in a bass design is a thinner neck, preferably 30" scale, too.
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Thanks for your in depth review and pictures Bill. I totally agree with your points on the older versions of the M-85. ( I had both the original wider Body 1968 version and the solid '74 version and they both had a nasal tone. i even DS'd the '74 and voila..nasal!).
Must say I am surprised by that "nasal" comment. I'm curious what kind of strings and amp you were using. Some kind of rounds?
On Saturday our drummer came over after the sound check and said "Dude, I love how that bass sounds. It rattles my innards!" And that was with my amp a good 10 feet away and off of the riser. I have TI Jazz Flats on it and run it through a gooey/tubey Orange head. Dunno, maybe it's the amp?
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The shine on your Guild, Bill, is so good you can almost see the whiskers on your kitty...! ;)
I was admiring the moccasins. They look comfy.
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I was admiring the moccasins. They look comfy.
Quite! :bored:
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Must say I am surprised by that "nasal" comment. I'm curious what kind of strings and amp you were using. Some kind of rounds?
On Saturday our drummer came over after the sound check and said "Dude, I love how that bass sounds. It rattles my innards!" And that was with my amp a good 10 feet away and off of the riser. I have TI Jazz Flats on it and run it through a gooey/tubey Orange head. Dunno, maybe it's the amp?
My comments were referring to a vintage Starfire I and the new Starfire RI, not an M-85 of any sort. I would still have the vintage bass if it had sounded better.
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Speaking of the bridge: does the E string intonate properly? Specifically, can you slide the saddle up enough so the string is short enough? I've had to extend the slots on both of my Guilds.
I had that problem on my old 73 JS II. I had to take the saddle off the bent piece of metal and stick it in front of it to get the E to intonate. It stayed put fine. I was never real aggressive with that bass anyway.
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Checked out the other M-85 this morning. The bridge is a little better (but not perfect). I decided to take the new one and try it out. Nice thing is I can always take it back. They are a great shop! The owner suggested I write Guild a note and let them know about the flaw. I'm gonna do just that.
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Honestly they did such a nice job on it how could you screw up something so basic?
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Honestly they did such a nice job on it how could you screw up something so basic?
Inebriated CNC programmer???
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I've read before that f-holes lower the resonant frequency. Supposedly this can reinforce certain lower mid frequencies and make them more prominent than those frequencies above and below. Probably a generalization.
As for the crooked bridge, you have to wonder if it was a CNC programming error or a workmanship error. Unless the originals were also off-kilter....
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I've read before that f-holes lower the resonant frequency. Supposedly this can reinforce certain lower mid frequencies and make them more prominent than those frequencies above and below. Probably a generalization.
As for the crooked bridge, you have to wonder if it was a CNC programming error or a workmanship error. Unless the originals were also off-kilter....
I think f-hole effect is mediated by many of the other variables I mentioned before. I think, from experience, the bigger the box/body and the fewer the impediments like bracing/blocks, the more the f-holes do enhance lower frequencies. I also think wood choice and pups really play a large role as well.
Yep, putting two screws into a body, probably made by a CNC machine in the first place, hardly seems difficult at all! We'll see what they have to say, I sent my email to them.
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FYI, took the new M-85 out of the case and played it yesterday and no issues with the string popping out of the saddle. The bridge is still a hair crooked, but not enough to cause any string issues. It shows that bridge placement might just be by hand? If so, they need someone with a better eye! :o
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Did some exploratory surgery today. The bass is well constructed for sure. The new Bi-Sonic looks just like the old one I've had in vintage Guilds. The copper stripe might be new, I don't recall that part. It sounds good too! Mine will get a test run at practice tonight.
I got to see the hole in the lower portion block for passing the controls through, so I'll steal that idea for my builds and skip the control plate in the back. They also use a quick connect plug for the pup, that's a nice touch and probably makes assembly faster, too.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1218_zpsa55311e6.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1218_zpsa55311e6.jpg.html)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1219_zpseda4a6a1.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1219_zpseda4a6a1.jpg.html)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1220_zps686944aa.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1220_zps686944aa.jpg.html)
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That's a clever way of doing it. Beats having to have a separate control cavity on a semihollow.
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They even put a hold-down in the cavity to secure the wires. Nice.
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That's a clever way of doing it. Beats having to have a separate control cavity on a semihollow.
I agree! I hate routing control cavities anyway!
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They even put a hold-down in the cavity to secure the wires. Nice.
How about that Al? Nice touch for sure!
BTW, took the bass to practice tonight and I was wowed. The single pup did a super job. The Mesa rig loved it. Nice clean clear tone, good freq response, the bass design, pup and stock round strings worked well together. The was no mushiness or indistinct output from the bass. The pup is not a cheap knockoff. I was impressed with it. The neck was very easy to play and I enjoyed it. The thicker body is a little odd under your right arm, but I was able to rest my forearm on it comfortably the entire time. The neck is out there a bit since it's mounted high on the fretboard and the big butt tuners make it a bit neck heavy. However, I still like it a lot!
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A follow up: I am keeping the bass and will gig with it in the future. I like it that much.
Also, I got a really nice note back from Guild's customer service rep who gave me info about taking the bass to an approved service center for a fix. It has a one-year warranty. I thanked him, but won't take it in, the second one is fine.
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Fender just sold Guild:
http://www.vintageguitar.com/17565/fender-sells-guild-to-u-s-builder-cordoba-music/
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Fender just sold Guild:
http://www.vintageguitar.com/17565/fender-sells-guild-to-u-s-builder-cordoba-music/
Wow, that's a surprise. I wonder if they'll keep the MIK line of instruments. If not, I see sky high prices in the future.
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Wow, that's a surprise. I wonder if they'll keep the MIK line of instruments. If not, I see sky high prices in the future.
I know the press release says they'll continue to make Guilds in the US, but most Cordoba guitars are imports. They make everything from import $99 beginner specials to several thousand dollar US handmades. They will make Guild's US acoustic line in Oxnard but it would surprise me if they dropped all the import Guilds. OTOH it wouldn't shock me if they dropped the solidbodies and semihollows, wherever made. Those are what we see as bassists, but the acoustics have been by far the biggest part of Guild's line for years.
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You may be right Dave. We'll see. Maybe the M 85 RIs will be more collectible in 20 years!