The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: Basvarken on August 31, 2010, 03:24:54 PM
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About three years ago I initiated another project with BaCH.
When the BaCHbird was in the making I started an EB2 / Rivoli project with them.
It was supposed to be very easy because they already have an ES335 in their collection. The body of an ES335 and EB2 is the same. Put on a short scale neck and you're go!
Joe (Chromium) helped me out with lots of pictures and measuments. I gave BaCH all the information they needed.
But they couldn't find an affordable alternative for the choke and the bridge seemed to be a problem too.
After several persistent emails from me to them, they finally sent me a picture of a prototype.
It appeared to be long scale...
Guess they found out when they got to the point where they had to install the bridge... because it has none. :o
The prototype was rejected and the project was put aside (by BaCH).
Despite several attempts from me to pick up the project it never happened.
A month ago when I was emailing about another project with BaCH I asked if they still had the prototype.
"Oh yeah it's gathering dust in a corner here"
So I asked them if I could buy it. And I had them send it over.
Today I picked it up at the post office.
Apart from the obvious scale hick-up it looks beautiful.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100069/P8312070/web.jpg?ver=12832689990001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100069/P8312072/web.jpg?ver=12832689720001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100069/P8312075/web.jpg?ver=12832689620001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100069/P8312077/web.jpg?ver=12832689830001)
I would really like to get it up and running.
But I need a bridge first.
The Gibson/Epiphone three point bridge would be the most obvious choice I guess. But the string spacing would be too wide. Especially for the bridge pickup.
Of course I could try and make new saddles and notch them for a narrower spacing. But I don't really have the tools to make a precise kind of thing like a saddle.
Didn't Schaller make a two point bridge as an intonable alternative for the original Gibson two point with the fixed bar?
Anybody got any suggestions?
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Are you sure a three-point bridge would not work? That type of bridge already has a narrower string spacing than standard (Fender type) bridges.
What are the measurements (imperial, please) on the nut, end of the fretboard and pickups pole spacing?
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iffen it were me, i would try to find a two piece bass bridge and then buy a tailpiece off of the bay and finish it off with the bridge part of the two piece and the tailpiece.
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Yep, Sniper came up with a viable solution. Just set it up like a Gretsch - you're talking maybe and hour to set it up and intonate it and only one small hole to drill!
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That's a nice bass Rob! I'm also surprised the Gibson spacing would be too wide. If you get a hold of the discontinued Schaller 460 it has adjustable roller saddles:
http://www.music-filibe.com/webshop/product_info.php/info/p4334_Schaller-460-Bass-Bridge.html/XTCsid/9b1154825e61a291fb39267e3e66068f (http://www.music-filibe.com/webshop/product_info.php/info/p4334_Schaller-460-Bass-Bridge.html/XTCsid/9b1154825e61a291fb39267e3e66068f)
Here's a tune-o-matic but it has Gibson spacing (18mm).
http://www.guitarpartscentral.com/tune-o-matic-for-bass.html (http://www.guitarpartscentral.com/tune-o-matic-for-bass.html)
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Yep, Sniper came up with a viable solution. Just set it up like a Gretsch - you're talking maybe and hour to set it up and intonate it and only one small hole to drill!
http://cgi.ebay.com/CHROME-BASS-Long-Trapeze-Tailpiece-ta05-/380148425998?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item58829ca50e
http://cgi.ebay.com/SHORT-TRAPEZE-TAILPIECE-ARCHTOP-BASS-GUITAR-GD-/220552717803?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3359f765eb
a hofner type bridge:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hofner-Beatle-Bass-Bridge-Brand-New-Project-/280555888533?pt=Guitar&hash=item41526f1f95
bango!!!
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how about a trapeeze tailpiece.
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how about a trapeeze tailpiece.
i could not think of the correct word for those things thanks tubehead
allparts sells them too as i found out on the bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Allparts-Hofner-Bass-Bridge-Tailpiece-Made-Germany-/200405587467?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2ea91a960b
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Are you sure a three-point bridge would not work? That type of bridge already has a narrower string spacing than standard (Fender type) bridges.
What are the measurements (imperial, please) on the nut, end of the fretboard and pickups pole spacing?
The three point string spacing is too wide.
The bridge pickup has a pole spacing of 16.9 mm (6.653 inch)
the neck pickup has a pole spacing of 16.1 mm (6.338 inch)
the end of the fretboard is 63 mm wide (24.13 inch)
the top nut is 38 mm wide (1.496 inch) and the slots are spaced at 9 mm (0.35 inch)
I don't want to go for the "Gretsch option" just yet.
But I might end up having to use this kind of solution.
Too bad the Schaller 460 bridge is sold out on that site, Doombass. But at least now I know what type it is.
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1) one could use the badass bridge approach and file your own notches
or
2) betcha a schaller 463 would come darn close @ 2.093 inches or 53.16 mm
hmmm a choke huh?
http://www.surplussales.com/Transformers/PowerChk-3.html
(CPW) MQA-13 might come really close. it would have the right rating for Gibby pups though = don't know about Bach (Artec) pups and it is not very big.
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I love the floating bridge-trapeze tailpiece set up. I wouldn't feel bad if I had to ditch a mounted bridge. With a wood floater, you can notch it anywhere you like. The Gretsch adjustable floater has pretty narrow spacing and I use/have it on a lot of basses.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Ric%20project/100_2588.jpg)
This one has the Gretsch Space Control bridge without adjustable saddles. A little hard to intonate, (You have to angle it just right) but you can spin the saddles to any string spacing you like.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Vox%20HB/100_2098.jpg)
Here it is close up........
(http://www.guitar-parts.com/pictures/1596c/Gretsch-Bridge-Space-Control-for-Bass.jpg)
Did I mention how envious I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very cool bass. They really should pursue it.
ALso, a Gibson with a floater and tailpiece can look really nice IMHO. Check out the EB-650.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Basses/100_0888.jpg)
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When Epiphone released EB2s in the '90s they used a standard three point as I recall, should work just fine. I'm in if they build these !
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When Epiphone released EB2s in the '90s they used a standard three point as I recall, should work just fine. I'm in if they build these !
I'd consider buying one if they decide to make them! Or a shell like yours!
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When Epiphone released EB2s in the '90s they used a standard three point as I recall, should work just fine. I'm in if they build these !
correct the 90's epis had a three point bridge
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/hollowbodies/epirivoli.jpg)
i always liked a trapeze look. kind of looks like it belongs on a nice hollow body as this epi has
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/hollowbodies/epi260.jpg)
or you can go with the guild starfire look with the wood saddles. the dearmond remake doesn't have th ewooden ones but when i get around to redoinng this one i will put in DS and the wooden saddles. sorry Dave but i too like DS's BUT for what they are....
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/hollowbodies/guildstar.jpg)
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Thank you guys for your suggestions. Keep them coming.
I know the nineties Epiphone Rivoli had the three point bridge.
But it's the bridge pickup on this BaCH that's making this option useless. The pole spacing is very narrow. Of course I could opt to change the pickup for one with wider pole spacing. ;)
The floating bridge options are all very easy to realise. I agree they look great too. But just not EB2 / Rivoli ...
But if I can't find the Schaller 460 -or another two point option with correct spacing- I could always choose that option.
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Another vote for the trapeze tailpiece and floating bridge. I know it's not "EB-2", but to me that's a feature, not a bug.
To me, the one visual shortcoming of the EB-2 is that all the hardware stops halfway down the body. To my eye, the tailpiece and bridge make the instrument much better balanced visually. The Gretsch look is great with me.
Here's my 70's Univox - similar setup......
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Univoxcu-tiltoutside.jpg)
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To me, the one visual shortcoming of the EB-2 is that all the hardware stops halfway down the body.
I actually prefer that look. I like the clean look of a big semi acoustic body without too much frills going on... :)
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That is such a beautiful instrument...
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I actually prefer that look. I like the clean look of a big semi acoustic body without too much frills going on... :)
Understood! It is a different look, and those nice Gibson finishes show it off to advantage.
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I like the flexibility of the floating bridge and not drilling any more holes than necessary in the top of the bass.
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(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/tonypbass/DSCF0013.jpg)mod bar and old hofner gtr trapeze on my eb2.i love the feel,helps the string tension, and it sounds good.pretty it aint but im not too worried about that.
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Took the longscale EB2 to the guitar building lesson today.
We measured it up once again.
And I've decided it's the bridge pickup that's the problem.
The pole spacing is way too narrow for a bridge pickup.
We think it is actually a neck pickup (for a short scale bass maybe).
So I'm going to install a regular three point bridge and find me a new bridge pickup with normal pole spacing (for a long scale bass).
But first set up the bridge and see how it sounds.
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Well and then I changed my mind again ;D
I found the perfect bridge for this bass:
A Duesenberg two point bridge. It is adjustable in all possible ways: string spacing, individual saddle height, back and forth for intonation and of course the the bridge in its entirety can be height adjusted. Excellent!
(https://www.tonefactory.nl/shop2/images/HDB4N.jpg?osCsid=c1fe33cf1c10bc01f803bc4f081ae957)
(https://www.tonefactory.nl/shop2/images/HDB4N_1.jpg?osCsid=c1fe33cf1c10bc01f803bc4f081ae957)
I bought the tail stop that Duesenberg offers for their basses too.
(https://www.tonefactory.nl/shop2/images/HDT4N.jpg?osCsid=c1fe33cf1c10bc01f803bc4f081ae957)
That was a bit of a wild guess, but my plan turned out exactly as I had hoped.
Here's what I did: I installed the tail stop straight at the bridge itself. So now the bridge and tailpiece look as if their one.
Between the tailpiace and the top of the body I placed a piece of black foam. Same stuff that is often used underneath pickups.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100109/P9182105/web.jpg?ver=12848461180001)
And with the replica bridge cover (that I bought off Ebay) placed over the new bridge configuration it looks very convincing.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100109/P9182107/web.jpg?ver=12848461040001)
So now I have my longscale EB2 ready to rock! :rimshot:
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Where/how did you purchase the Duesenberg bridge/tailpiece? Could you tell us the price, if I may ask? Thanks, the bass looks beautiful! ;D
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That worked out really nice. Since it's an EB-2 copy I agree that it looks better without a floating bridge and tailpiece connected at the end.
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Beautiful results. Too bad they didn't put it into production...
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Where/how did you purchase the Duesenberg bridge/tailpiece? Could you tell us the price, if I may ask? Thanks, the bass looks beautiful! ;D
I bought them here:
www.tonefactory.nl (https://www.tonefactory.nl/shop2/index.php?cPath=28_41_42_639&osCsid=c1fe33cf1c10bc01f803bc4f081ae957)
they aren't exactly cheap
52 euro for the bridge
32 euro for the tailpiece.
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Thank you. Not toooo bad a price for both units. Of course I'm in Tejas. :-\
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Beautiful results. Too bad they didn't put it into production...
+1
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I like that bridge too. Looks good!
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Are those bridge saddles adjustable side to side?
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Are those bridge saddles adjustable side to side?
Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Perhaps combining shipping costs for a multiple order? Always thinkin'! Not always well, but always thinkin' ;D
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Are those bridge saddles adjustable side to side?
I think he said they are.
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Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Perhaps combining shipping costs for a multiple order? Always thinkin'! Not always well, but always thinkin' ;D
I think he said they are.
I like the bridge but don't need the spacing option, was just curious. Reread Rob's post, he did say they are adjustable, pretty slick.
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I guess I know what you're thinking... 8)
The good news it has exactly the same stud spacing as the BaCHbird bridge!
The bad news is the diameter of the Duesenberg studs is a little smaller. So you'd have to plug the holes and re-drill 'em. Or use some kind of filler / glue.
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I guess I know what you're thinking... 8)
The good news it has exactly the same stud spacing as the BaCHbird bridge!
The bad news is the diameter of the Duesenberg studs is a little smaller. So you'd have to plug the holes and re-drill 'em. Or use some kind of filler / glue.
I was thinking of this for a new build.The Duesenberg site is not too helpful I'm afraid.
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You may want to check the http://www.goeldo.com (http://www.goeldo.com) site.
Göldo is one of the companies from Duesenberg founder Dieter Gölsdorf (http://www.duesenberg.de/duesenberg/en_comp_history.php).
The prices on the site are suggested retail prices. Most stores/luthiers can order them for about half the price. And then add a percentage to the price.
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Perfect. Thanks so much!
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Took the Big Red Machine to the gig last night.
It passed the test with flying colors
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4078/5024730584_aa9371b3ec.jpg)
Special gig by the way: our guitarist's last one after 13(!) years Superfloor...
It was an emotional evening.
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Meant to comment on this before- glad to see something come of that project, even if it was only one bass! Great choice and beautiful execution on the bridge.
Sorry about your guitarist. That guy's tone and playing is top notch. Big shoes to fill.
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Thank you very much Joe. All the pics, measurements and specifications you sent me.
Much obliged.
Without your help this bass would never have seen the light of day.
I'm sure BaCH will pick up this project some day.
We've found the perfect guy to follow up Frank. He came to audition and half way through the first song we knew he is our man.
We're rehearsing with him, to get ready for gigging.
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Here's a short vid I made of the longscale EB2 by BaCH
Straight into the desk. No EQ. Through the crappy old stereo. Registrated with the built in mic of my iMac.
But you get the idea ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PxK7VFDDp8
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Very cool Rob. Ride that pony!
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If Bach would do some more of those, I'd be all over one.
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Sounds like it has more presence than the average semihollow. More so than the Epi Casady.
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oh yeah, long scale with dot markers. i wish the casady was like that.
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Oh yeah, it sounds great! Very nice tone, not muddy at all. It turned out great. I'd be interested in one if they'd make them! I think they are missing out on an opportunity here!
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Really nice! I'd buy one !
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Here's a short vid I made of the longscale EB2 by BaCH
Straight into the desk. No EQ. Through the crappy old stereo. Registrated with the built in mic of my iMac.
But you get the idea ;-)
great sounding bass. very present , not muddy at all. both pups artecs?? those pups with the long scale have taken away all the bad parts of the eb-2 sound i have disliked. i would definately be in for one of those babies.... how bad is the neck dive????
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I'm not sure if they are Artecs.
Actually the mudbucker is different from the Artec that I used in my self built bass.
The mudbucker on the EB2 only has one magnet per side. The Artec has two per side.
It does have a bit of a neck dive. But nothing serious. The body is actually pretty heavy (it has a center block)
But I am considering Resolites to cure that last tiny bit of neck dive.
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The unmudbucker pickup... sounds great whatever they did differently.