The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: veebass on June 13, 2018, 08:44:59 PM
-
I just received this glorious Midtown Sig (private purchase second hand).
(https://scontent.fbne5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34646032_1715093991861801_119732959384174592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=62331824bb9771c930ce44bdf51ef2a9&oe=5BB379DF)
The bass is in really beautiful condition (neck excellent), only issue is that the neck pickup sounds absolutely cr@p. In addition to the note we get a big, distorted echo and a wonderful feedback squeal at volume. Bridge pickup is clear as a bell. Sounds like the neck pickup is microphonic to me. Not quite the NBD I had hoped for.
I have reported it to the seller and at least at this stage he is willing to talk to me about repairing it or taking it back (on the other side of Australia). I would like to keep it if possible.
There is a guy who does wax potting locally, but he says sometimes it doesn't fix the problem. I have a look at the wiring and I will get him to remove the pickup and reinstall it or a replacement (looks a bit awkward in there).
First question.
What is a good replacement pickup at a reasonable price?
Are these ones OK?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allparts-Chrome-Humbucker-Neck-Pickup-for-Gibson-Epiphone-EB-Bass-PU-0416-010/223003028199?epid=1901847354&hash=item33ec042ae7:g:WJYAAOSw6WdXiSp5
Or rhis one?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chrome-Alnico-5-Sidewinder-Style-Neck-Pickup-for-Gibson-EB-Bass-Etc-PU-EBA-C/223007714870?hash=item33ec4bae36:g:rS8AAOSw-ldZZCi3
Other suggestions?
Where can I get a genuine Gibson pickup?
Does anyone here have an SG Bass neck pickup for sale?
-
I didn't know Artec made a mudbucker rated at 29K. Says it's a sidewinder too. If that's legit, it would sound like a vintage Gibson mudbucker. There's also the DiMarzio model one as an option. I don't think Gibson sells TB+ neck pickups separately. Not sure how the allparts compares. Personally, I'd try to return it and pick up that LPB-1 at Wild Horse in Sydney instead. Good luck either way.
-
Beautiful bass. That Artec seems worth trying in my opinion.
-
Really nice looking bass. I also think it's worth trying to work with it. Id try potting the existing pickup first, as you have little to lose.
-
Yes, I second that. Try to wax pot it first.
An Artec Mudbucker or any other Mudbucker would not be a correct replacement.
Under the chrome plate there's a TB+, not a genuine sidewinder Mudbucker.
-
could it be too close to the strings?
-
I didn't know Artec made a mudbucker rated at 29K. Says it's a sidewinder too. If that's legit, it would sound like a vintage Gibson mudbucker. There's also the DiMarzio model one as an option. I don't think Gibson sells TB+ neck pickups separately. Not sure how the allparts compares. Personally, I'd try to return it and pick up that LPB-1 at Wild Horse in Sydney instead. Good luck either way.
I have two Les Paul Basses- looking for something a little different and this bass is SO pretty.
-
could it be too close to the strings?
Don't think so- the cover plate is screwed down tight and that effectively sets the height. It would be 5 or 6 mm from the strings by the look of it.
-
Thanks guys. Since posting I have heard of a few other Midtown developing microphonic neck pickups over time that were fixed by wax potting. Funny I hadn't heard of it as an issue with the really common SG Bass.
My preference at this stage would be to keep the bass stock. I despair of finding a replacement Gibson pickup. Gibson support in Australia is nil, even if the company does sell these pickups. What a circus that company is. I can't find a major component for a four year old bass. Pathetic! Same component is in one of their biggest selling basses.
So, I think I will have it wax potted and hopefully the seller will pay for that. Hopefully that will be the end of it. Famous last words.
As a reserve, I do have a pair of functioning but dark sounding 2008 TB+s I took out of my TBird when I Chinabuckered it. (Best move ever IMHO.)
I could extract one from it's cover and use it. I believe Mark has done that operation in the past.
-
You still ought to try increasing the distance between the pickup and the strings. 5-6 mm may be too close for that pickup.
If that doesn't work, if I were you, I'd get it repaired before putting in a substitute.
As Rob said, that Artec is a mudbucker replacement. Don't buy it unless you're looking for mud. And if you are, IMHO better to spend the extra money and buy a used genuine Gibson mudbucker than put a cheap Korean clone in a real Gibson bass.
AFAIK the Allparts version is still made by Gotoh. Low output, tame sounding. Fine if that's what you're looking for. But neither it nor the Artec are like the TB+ original.
Curtis Novak will make you one that looks like the original and wind it to your preference but his price is over $200 US.
-
Thanks guys. Since posting I have heard of a few other Midtown developing microphonic neck pickups over time that were fixed by wax potting. Funny I hadn't heard of it as an issue with the really common SG Bass.
My preference at this stage would be to keep the bass stock. I despair of finding a replacement Gibson pickup. Gibson support in Australia is nil, even if the company does sell these pickups. What a circus that company is. I can't find a major component for a four year old bass. Pathetic! Same component is in one of their biggest selling basses.
So, I think I will have it wax potted and hopefully the seller will pay for that. Hopefully that will be the end of it. Famous last words.
As a reserve, I do have a pair of functioning but dark sounding 2008 TB+s I took out of my TBird when I Chinabuckered it. (Best move ever IMHO.)
I could extract one from it's cover and use it. I believe Mark has done that operation in the past.
You won't be able to use the TB+ from your TBird. Same pickup construction but different dimensions. The coils in the Midtown/SG Bass version are more widely separated.
-
Curtis Novak will make you one that looks like the original and wind it to your preference but his price is over $200 US.
Depending on what you're going for and how much you love the way the bass plays, that might be the ticket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vYiNpBAr3Q&ab_channel=CurtisNovak
-
You won't be able to use the TB+ from your TBird. Same pickup construction but different dimensions. The coils in the Midtown/SG Bass version are more widely separated.
Thanks
-
You still ought to try increasing the distance between the pickup and the strings. 5-6 mm may be too close for that pickup.
I had a better look it is probably 7 to 8 mm.
How would you do that? By putting some foam between the top of the pickup and the cover? The pickup doesn't rattle against the inside of the cover- so I guess there is very little that it could be pushed down.
I am thinking about getting the pickup wax potted- given the way the cover works ie screwed to the body and not soldered to the pickup, how would you account for any little gaps between the cover and the pickup causing a problem- felt cut to size?
The advice on the cheap replacements was exactly what I needed to find out BTW, thanks.
-
I had a better look it is probably 7 to 8 mm.
How would you do that? By putting some foam between the top of the pickup and the cover? The pickup doesn't rattle against the inside of the cover- so I guess there is very little that it could be pushed down.
I am thinking about getting the pickup wax potted- given the way the cover works ie screwed to the body and not soldered to the pickup, how would you account for any little gaps between the cover and the pickup causing a problem- felt cut to size?
The advice on the cheap replacements was exactly what I needed to find out BTW, thanks.
If the pickup cover is screwed down as far as it can go, your option would be to raise the action at the bridge, at least to see if distance is the problem.
If there's a gap between the cover and the top of the pickup, you can try felt or foam. If the microphonic response you got is a result of the pickup body rattling or moving, that should solve your problem.
-
I don't think a loose pickup rattling in the body would cause microphony. If I'm not mistaken it's the loose windings causing microphony. Which can be solved by wax potting the pickup.
-
I fitted a DiMarzio Model One to a Midtown Standard. I also fitted a coil tap (or maybe series/parallel, can't remember now, sold it on a couple of years ago) onto a push/push pot on the volume control, for more variety :)
(http://www.ifb.co.uk/~matthew/pics/midtown/04_modelone.jpg)
-
That's the first bass I've seen where a model one looks ok
-
I don't think a loose pickup rattling in the body would cause microphony. If I'm not mistaken it's the loose windings causing microphony. Which can be solved by wax potting the pickup.
The pickup is already epoxy potted, unless things have changed in the past few years.
That's the first bass I've seen where a model one looks ok
It does look good with the black bass. If they offered it with a chrome cover, I would think they would sell more.
-
The pickup is already epoxy potted, unless things have changed in the past few years.
It does look good with the black bass. If they offered it with a chrome cover, I would think they would sell more.
Not sure but I have chatted to a few fellows over on Talkbass that fixed similar problems in Midtowns by wax potting the pickup.
-
Not sure but I have chatted to a few fellows over on Talkbass that fixed similar problems in Midtowns by wax potting the pickup.
Maybe Gibson has changed the pickups then, or maybe the epoxy potting has come loose.
-
I don't think a loose pickup rattling in the body would cause microphony. If I'm not mistaken it's the loose windings causing microphony. Which can be solved by wax potting the pickup.
If the pickup is not properly potted, being loose/ not properly mounted can certainly generate unwanted mechanical noise.
On the other hand, if properly mounted - a pickup that is unpotted does not necessarily represent a problem.
-
If the pickup is not properly mounted can certainly generate unwanted mechanical noise.
Yes of course, but it doesn't make it microphonic, does it?
-
I am a fan of the Model 1.
(http://mojohobo.com/images/rick-1.jpg)
(http://mojohobo.com/images/tb-ng.jpg)
-
I think the Model One sounds good. It's not original looking, and that bothers some people.
-
I agree that the Model One sounds good. I have one in a bridge position on a '64 EB-0 (I didn't cut the additional pickup cavity in it, I just found something to fill the hole). It has a more moderate sound than the original period mudbucker in the neck position (thanks, Dave...). Agreed, it doesn't look like the original at all.
-
Maybe Gibson has changed the pickups then, or maybe the epoxy potting has come loose.
I wonder if potting will prevent a pickup from being microphonic in the same way as waxing the winding. The epoxy potting I've seen mostly serves the purpose of keeping the coils within a casing. That does'nt necessarily keep the windings still in case it has'nt been wound tight enough. The wax on OTOH penetrates the coil and fill the air gaps within the coil. This is a photo of the neck pickup on the 2005 SG Reissue I used to own but traded for an SG-Z bass:
(https://i.imgur.com/vxgP0Oa.jpg)
Looks like clear epoxy.
-
If it's done properly, supposedly epoxy potting will eliminate microphonics. Maybe Gibson didn't do a good job of it, if this is a common problem.
-
If it's done properly, supposedly epoxy potting will eliminate microphonics. Maybe Gibson didn't do a good job of it, if this is a common problem.
That is what I suspect- I have spoken to one other guy who had the same symptoms and were gone after wax potting.
Here is the crazy thing, though.
I took the neck pickup cover off yesterday to have a look. I noticed the cover had not been screwed down very tightly and I was actually getting a bit of mechanical vibration that was audible when played acoustically. When I put the cover back on I screwed it down tight. The acoustic vibration sound is gone now as far as I can hear. The pickup issues when amplified seemed less as well- it still will feedback at high volume and gain, but not as readily. The amplified background rattle is gone and the distorted echo seems to be reduced.
Is it possible that the mechanical vibration of the pickup is at least partially to blame for microphonics symptoms?
One thing unabated though is the annoying earth hum. My LP OSB does it too. Don't Gibson bother to earth their basses properly anymore? My Epi Vintage Pro TBird is silent beween notes and it cost nowhere near what the Gibson's did.
I have actually tracked down a genuine SG bass neck pickup for a reasonable price in the process. I think I will pick it up in case.
-
It's certainly possible that mechanical vibration played at least a part.
Neither of my SG Basses (same pickups as your Midtown) had hum issues but I've played a couple of modern era (TB+) TBirds that hummed despite being grounded. I don't know what the issue is.
-
Yes of course, but it doesn't make it microphonic, does it?
What, you don't believe in Voodoo??
-
What, you don't believe in Voodoo??
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. It is VERY bad.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SOKjaNxUHic/WXjbMs9Yj8I/AAAAAAAANBo/r3xlVSwUWg8ljVuQg3XhP2Lr4vAlIVsqwCEwYBhgL/s1600/image0005.jpg)
-
Replacement Gibson neck TB+ from a 2014 SG Bass received.
About 9.5K about right for the neck pickup?
-
BTW here is the interchange between yours truly and Gibson. I suppose at least they responded. Their bass product support is non existent but they did respond after 5 days. Why would this truly useless company not sell replacement pickups for their biggest selling bass, which is still in production? They have the pickups and a way to do the transaction. But instead they simply say- you are on your own and that their warranty is not transferrable, although I was NOT asking for it as a warranty issue.
Me
I have acquired a 2014 Gibson Midtown Signature BASS. Unfortunately, the neck pickup is very badly microphonic. I cannot locate a functioning Gibson importer or distributer in Australia. I assume it will not be covered by warranty as the original owner, who I bought the bass from, did not fill in the card, which is still with the bass. Can I buy a replacement neck pickup from Gibson, please? What is the cost including shipping to Australia, please?
XXXX from Gibson
Hello,
Second-hand purchases are not covered by the warranty – Gibson does not sell bass pickups unfortunately.
Best regards,
XXXX
XXXX, CSR
Customer Service
Gibson Brands, Inc.
1-800-4GIBSON
-
BTW here is the interchange between yours truly and Gibson. I suppose at least they responded. Their bass product support is non existent but they did respond after 5 days. Why would this truly useless company not sell replacement pickups for their biggest selling bass, which is still in production?
Me
XXXX from Gibson
Maybe Gibson sold bass pickups separately sometime in the pre-Henry era, but I can't remember a time when they did. The TBird probably sells far more than the models that used the mudbucker-size TB+ and they never sold those separately.
Gibson isn't alone. Some companies don't want to be in the parts business like Fender. At least Gibson sells some pickups and controls for their guitars. Try buying anything like that from MusicMan. They'll exchange part for defective part under warranty but that's it.
-
Maybe Gibson sold bass pickups separately sometime in the pre-Henry era, but I can't remember a time when they did. The TBird probably sells far more than the models that used the mudbucker-size TB+ and they never sold those separately.
Gibson isn't alone. Some companies don't want to be in the parts business like Fender. At least Gibson sells some pickups and controls for their guitars. Try buying anything like that from MusicMan. They'll exchange part for defective part under warranty but that's it.
I certainly see more SG Basses around than Gibson TBirds, but you are no doubt right.
I know you can't buy TBird pups either. That was part of my point.
Yes I know about EBMM. R!ckenbacker are useless too and can be extremely unpleasant to boot.
But really is that any reason for Gibson to not support their products?
Imagine a car manufacturer not selling parts for a car that is still in production.
Anyway I have a spare so I don't care now.
-
I understand what you're saying, but cars will need factory replacement parts during their lifespans. Most guitars won't.
-
I understand what you're saying, but cars will need factory replacement parts during their lifespans. Most guitars won't.
Except strings and maybe new software for the robo tubers :)
-
Except strings and maybe new software for the robo tubers :)
Or Grovers for when the software company goes out of business.
-
Or Grovers for when the software company goes out of business.
Speaking of Grovers, the Grovers on the Midtown that is the subject of this thread does not have "Grover" stamped on the base plate.
-
Speaking of Grovers, the Grovers on the Midtown that is the subject of this thread does not have "Grover" stamped on the base plate.
They could be Grover copies.
We could ask Grover.
(https://i.imgur.com/8Cxlyo4.jpg)
-
I used to be on somewhat friendly terms with the local Gibson repair shop and the tech would get me anything I wanted that was available from Gibson, even Custom Shop parts. I had to pay full list price, but back then we didn't have nearly as many options as nowadays.
-
Maybe Gibson sold bass pickups separately sometime in the pre-Henry era, but I can't remember a time when they did.
I remember seeing a new in box mudbucker-sized Gibby pickup in the display case at a local music store back in the early 80s. I was considering it for an Ibanez V / Fender mongrel I was experimenting with, but wound up with a Model One instead. It may have been an EB-4L version, but I really can't access that part of my memory for sure.
-
I remember seeing a new in box mudbucker-sized Gibby pickup in the display case at a local music store back in the early 80s. I was considering it for an Ibanez V / Fender mongrel I was experimenting with, but wound up with a Model One instead. It may have been an EB-4L version, but I really can't access that part of my memory for sure.
Some years ago I bought a NOS bar bass bridge (the old type, not the tilt-o-rama) on ebay. Bought from UK, shipped in the original Selmer box with part numer and everything.. He also sold some NOS pickups apparently from the same guitar shop, can't remember exactly but think it was at least a mud there. Wanted one, but too expensive. No one seemed to care about the bar bridge, though - got it on my first bid, like $50 or so.
-
Speaking of Grovers, the Grovers on the Midtown that is the subject of this thread does not have "Grover" stamped on the base plate.
I've never seen Grovers that haven't been stamped, have they been changed for lightweights?
-
I've never seen Grovers that haven't been stamped, have they been changed for lightweights?
Nor have I but they appear genuine and original. In fact they are identical to the Grovers on my ES 335 Bass except they are not stamped Grover on the base plate.
I have all the Gibson paperwork for the purchase of the bass new from a Gibson dealer and the serials all match up.
So the bass is genuine,
-
Nor have I but they appear genuine and original. In fact they are identical to the Grovers on my ES 335 Bass except they are not stamped Grover on the base plate.
I have all the Gibson paperwork for the purchase of the bass new from a Gibson dealer and the serials all match up.
So the bass is genuine,
I don't doubt the bass, I know you're no fool, I just wondered if the tuners had been swapped out. If they are identical then maybe they are just a hybrid or even a manufacturing anomaly
Aside, I don't understand Gibson's approach to aftersales service on basses, you would think they would help you out with a genuine faulty product even if it was out of warranty even if they charged you RRP for the part; after all they seem to sell guitar pups
-
I remember seeing a new in box mudbucker-sized Gibby pickup in the display case at a local music store back in the early 80s. I was considering it for an Ibanez V / Fender mongrel I was experimenting with, but wound up with a Model One instead. It may have been an EB-4L version, but I really can't access that part of my memory for sure.
I have a New, in the store packaging mudbucker from the late sixties/early seventies. I've seen several like it on eBay in the same packaging. If I find it I'll post a photo. Oddly, that's the only part/pickup that I have seen for replacement sale...………..
This isn't mine, (it's buried somewhere in my junk) but it's identical to what I bought years ago...……..
(https://i.imgur.com/rH7X9V7.jpg)
-
I don't doubt the bass, I know you're no fool, I just wondered if the tuners had been swapped out. If they are identical then maybe they are just a hybrid or even a manufacturing anomaly
Aside, I don't understand Gibson's approach to aftersales service on basses, you would think they would help you out with a genuine faulty product even if it was out of warranty even if they charged you RRP for the part; after all they seem to sell guitar pups
I know you are not suggesting that. :)
I am really unsure about the tuners.
-
I know you are not suggesting that. :)
I am really unsure about the tuners.
Here's a sold Midtown Signature (https://www.elderly.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/142970/s/gibson-midtown-signature-bass-2014/) from Elderly without Grover stamped on the tuners.
Hard to know whether yours were made by Grover or another company copying the Grover style to Gibson's specs, but there's no reason to think yours aren't the original tuners.
-
Here's a sold Midtown Signature (https://www.elderly.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/142970/s/gibson-midtown-signature-bass-2014/) from Elderly without Grover stamped on the tuners.
Hard to know whether yours were made by Grover or another company copying the Grover style to Gibson's specs, but there's no reason to think yours aren't the original tuners.
Thanks. I was confident- but it doesn't hurt to see another exactly the same. Mine's a 2014 stamped one as well.
-
Does Grover actually make their own tuners? I've seen their name on a lot of Gotoh GB7 tuners. Their Titan looks like a Schaller M4S. And the ones Gibson has been using look like the generic one's available at Stew Mac (also seen on the Bach bird). https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Electric_Bass_Tuning_Machines/Adjustable_Tension_Bass_Tuner_Set.html (https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Electric_Bass_Tuning_Machines/Adjustable_Tension_Bass_Tuner_Set.html)
-
Does Grover actually make their own tuners? I've seen their name on a lot of Gotoh GB7 tuners. Their Titan looks like a Schaller M4S. And the ones Gibson has been using look like the generic one's available at Stew Mac (also seen on the Bach bird). https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Electric_Bass_Tuning_Machines/Adjustable_Tension_Bass_Tuner_Set.html (https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Electric_Bass_Tuning_Machines/Adjustable_Tension_Bass_Tuner_Set.html)
Grover is still a US company but they've been made in Asia for at least 30 years, maybe closer to 40. They're made to Grover's specs, including the Schaller style ones, and they work fine. There are plenty of cheaper knockoffs out there.
-
Old topic, but hey!
I've just received a Midtown neck pickup to upgrade my Rivoli bass. "Upgrade" may be too strong a word, but I was finding the Artec sidewinder was just too hot and restricted, tonally, to be much fun.
The Midtown pickup is strange. Mine isn't microphonic until the cover is installed. At a guess the cover is made of ferrous metal. If I hold the cover over the pickup, without touching any part of the pickup directly, the pickup will reproduce any light taps or knocks on the cover. Install the cover on the pickup and it will reproduce every tap and knock very clearly. I'm figuring out a way of padding the pickup slightly to isolate it, mechanically, from the cover. A plastic cover would be even better.
Remove the cover and tap the pickup itself and there is no noise. The coils seem well embedded in clear epoxy. Overall the pickup is well made, with a chunky brass backplate.
-
Old topic, but hey!
I've just received a Midtown neck pickup to upgrade my Rivoli bass. "Upgrade" may be too strong a word, but I was finding the Artec sidewinder was just too hot and restricted, tonally, to be much fun.
The Midtown pickup is strange. Mine isn't microphonic until the cover is installed. At a guess the cover is made of ferrous metal. If I hold the cover over the pickup, without touching any part of the pickup directly, the pickup will reproduce any light taps or knocks on the cover. Install the cover on the pickup and it will reproduce every tap and knock very clearly. I'm figuring out a way of padding the pickup slightly to isolate it, mechanically, from the cover. A plastic cover would be even better.
Remove the cover and tap the pickup itself and there is no noise. The coils seem well embedded in clear epoxy. Overall the pickup is well made, with a chunky brass backplate.
Would wax potting between the cover and pickup help?
-
I think it would, yes. I know some Telecaster players pot the bridge and pickup as a single unit to cut down on microphonics (I think Dan Erlewine discusses this in one of his books).