The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: godofthunder on March 31, 2013, 08:58:16 AM

Title: 335 Bass
Post by: godofthunder on March 31, 2013, 08:58:16 AM
 I got to play one at the HOG yesterday. I was very impressed! They only had the black with no binding which is less expensive than the bound Sunburst or Cherry finished versions. The Cherry looks cool as anything! The bass has two chrome guitar sized humbuckers and of course the venerable three point bridge. My only beef with the bass is you can't play a D bar chord off the A string at the 17th fret. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/335bass2.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/335bass.jpg)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on March 31, 2013, 10:34:06 AM
... My only beef with the bass is you can't play a D bar chord off the A string at the 17th fret.

I feel a modification coming on... :vader: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on March 31, 2013, 03:59:15 PM
 :o :o I better not saw what you wrote!!!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on April 01, 2013, 01:59:34 AM
I am but the irritant from which the pearl doth form... ;)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on April 05, 2013, 11:40:33 AM
I don't give a damn whether it's period-correct, faithful or whatever, it looketh nothing less than great! (Of course it's not a "Custom Shop" model, Music Zoo cocked that up.)

http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/17145/Gibson-Custom-Shop-ES-335-Bass-Vintage-Sunburst/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=new_arrivals&utm_content=uwe.hornung%40cliffordchance.com&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=&utm_campaign=New%20Arrivals%3A%20Gibson%2050th%20Anniversary%20Firebird%2C%20L-5%20CES%2C%20Flying%20V%20Custom%2C%20335%2012-String%20And%20Bass

(http://www.themusiczoo.com/images/4-04-13/17145_ES_335_Bass_Vintage_Sunburst_ME300293_1.jpg)

(http://www.themusiczoo.com/images/4-04-13/17146_Gibson_Custom_ES-335_Bass_Cherry_ME300283_1.jpg)

(http://www.themusiczoo.com/images/4-04-13/17144_ES_335_Bass_Ebony_ME300190_1.jpg)

Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on April 05, 2013, 11:55:47 AM
I am but the irritant from which the pearl doth form... ;)

What a poetic scribe you areth!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Basvarken on April 05, 2013, 12:41:25 PM
Those bridges are rather high up the posts. Wonder if the posts are longer than standard.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on April 05, 2013, 01:18:18 PM
I almost want to buy one just for the pink fur lined case. The little metal pointers under the reflector knobs are also a nice touch.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: eb2 on April 05, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
I am looking forward to trying one, and buying one used sometime after the next election or two. I like the bound one.  It does need a pickguard!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Wilbur88 on April 05, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
The cherry looks great IMHO. Not convinced about the ebony sans binding though.
I've got an ebony Warwick Star with binding that looks pretty damn cool

(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab95/wilbur88/star2.jpg)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on April 05, 2013, 08:17:39 PM
I don't give a damn whether it's period-correct, faithful or whatever, it looketh nothing less than great! (Of course it's not a "Custom Shop" model, Music Zoo cocked that up.)


There aren't any basses in the Gibson Custom line. Also, Music Zoo's copy makes it sound like a reissue, which it doesn't claim to be.

I wonder how the edges are finished on the non-bound black one.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on April 06, 2013, 08:27:34 AM

I wonder how the edges are finished on the non-bound black one.

If you look close...Gibson used spray adhesive on them and glues surplus Tascan 1/2-inch recording tape over the seams. Blends right in on the black finish!

I hear Henry is thinking about the same trick to make fingerboards look like ebony!   ;D
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on April 06, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
If you look close...Gibson used spray adhesive on them and glues surplus Tascan 1/2-inch recording tape over the seams. Blends right in on the black finish!

I hear Henry is thinking about the same trick to make fingerboards look like ebony!   ;D

 :mrgreen:

You might not be that far off.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 06, 2013, 08:09:38 PM
Just got home from vacation and went to the Gibson factory in Memphis.  Saw a bunch of the 335 basses on the racks in various stages of production on the tour.  They only make 335 bodied instruments in Memphis.  A really cool tour.  Most of the work is done by hand and the jigs and stuff are pretty much one at a time jobs.  Most impressive was the binding guys.  They could bind one side of a guitar in less than 5 minutes.  The guy on the neck station was one of only a few who does the entire neck profile entirely by hand on a sander without any jigs.  Unreal.  

The paint room was cool.  The ladies who scrape the paint off the binding at the end are amazing.  I recommend the tour if you ever have the chance!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Chris P. on April 07, 2013, 02:23:06 AM
Wow cool! Love to do that once. I just saw a vid of Rickenbacker. Great too! I only visited Warwick, which is quite impressive if you talk about old hand labour meets computers. One very big machine which makes necks. Fret slots, the new 'invisible' frets, radius, PLEK, ...
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: ilan on April 07, 2013, 05:13:27 AM
Not convinced about the ebony sans binding though.
Yep. Never liked the look of unbound hollowbodies, like the Lakland hollowbody or Höfner Verithin.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 07, 2013, 05:21:16 AM
Yeah, at Gibson, taking photos or videos is strictly prohibited and doing so will get you ejected from the tour immediately.  Like guitar building by them is so secret!  I didn't see anything that I didn't already know except how they did their binding.  The only CNC machine I saw was for cutting the tops and backs and routing for the controls, neck pocket and pups.  The initial cuts on the necks were done on a giant pin router with jigs.  The presses for doing the curved tops and sides were pretty cool to see as well.  Once they pressed the side pieces, a laminate piece about 16" wide, the individual side pieces are cut by hand on a big band saw.  Hand fretting and leveling too.

As I said, a lot more handy work than on a solid body instrument.  They turn out 60 instruments a day.  Not a big mass production plant for sure.  I wonder how many Fender roll out each day?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 07, 2013, 05:23:19 AM
Yep. Never liked the look of unbound hollowbodies, like the Lakland hollowbody or Höfner Verithin.

It's funny how something like that appeals to us. I feel the same way.  Especially on a hollow body with a curved top.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 07, 2013, 05:25:35 AM
While I wasn't enamored with the pups on these, I might have to get one because the burst is so beautiful!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 08, 2013, 11:08:54 AM
Yeah, I plugged a burst one in today and it followed me home.  It really does sound and feel good.  The pups are really strong and you can hear the resonance of the semi-hollow baody come through.  Hi, my name is Bill and I'm a bass addict..................
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 08, 2013, 12:16:12 PM
I don't give a damn whether it's period-correct, faithful or whatever, it looketh nothing less than great! (Of course it's not a "Custom Shop" model, Music Zoo cocked that up.)


Well, the Music Zoo isn't being dishonest either. I just took the paper work out of the case and I have a nice little bound booklet that says the bass is a custom build by the custom shop in the Memphis plant.  It also has the VP of Custom Shops signature on it as well.  So, as far as the buyer might be concerned, it is a custom shop bass according to the Gibson gang.

That being said, it is a step up from the Midtown.  Much stronger pups and definitely more resonant.  It reminds me a lot of the sound I get from my EB-650.  A nice narrow, but slightly fat neck front to back make it easy to play and reaching the 1st. fret isn't too bad either.  Needless to say, it looks as good in person as it does in the pictures.  We'll see how she performs at practice tonight.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on April 08, 2013, 12:43:32 PM
Custom eh? That's cool. Wonder why they didn't use any mahogany in this one.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 08, 2013, 12:49:09 PM
Here ya go.  BTW Uwe, it's not really all that off from my 69 EB-2.  There's no doubt they are very close cousins and this bass is a tonal improvement over the vintage basses.  While I have to work harder to play a 34" scale bass, they do have auditory characteristics that  a 30" bass can't typically match in the hollow/semi-hollow genre.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Gibson%20335%20Bass/DSCN0939_zpsbd03b610.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Gibson%20335%20Bass/DSCN0940_zps8b0b21a3.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/Gibson%20335%20Bass/DSCN0941_zps6baf78ff.jpg)

Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 08, 2013, 01:06:22 PM
Custom eh? That's cool. Wonder why they didn't use any mahogany in this one.

I'm just guessing, but maybe they didn't want to replicate the tone and sound of the old EB basses.  They could have easily done a 30" mahogany neck and SG style pups.  It looks like they are trying to break from the past.  They tried it with the EB-650 and that failed, maybe this will work better for them as this bass has a lot of the 650 characteristics.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on April 08, 2013, 01:16:47 PM
A maho neck with a maple multi-layered body as with a hollow-body just doesn't make sense. Dulls everything down and takes away snap. Past the EB-2, Gibson did it only once with a bass: With the EB-750, not a good idea at all. While a maho body with a maple neck can sound well (the Fenderbird recipe), it doesn't the other way around (non-descript is the term) and is relatively seldom.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on April 08, 2013, 01:53:50 PM
The midtown has a hog neck. Only the top is maple on the bod though. So is the midtown more non-descript?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on April 08, 2013, 02:44:19 PM
Dang... I want one in cherry. Way more than I can spend though. Not saying it's not worth it. Looks like a killer bass.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: the mojo hobo on April 08, 2013, 05:39:34 PM
Dang... I want one in cherry. Way more than I can spend though. Not saying it's not worth it. Looks like a killer bass.

I was just thinking that very same thing.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 09, 2013, 04:32:57 AM
There's no doubt the maple neck/body combo really makes this a crisp sounding bass.  With the stock rounds on it, it kicked butt at practice last night.  Whenever I bring a bass that doesn't have the snap that Uwe talked about, the guitar player complains.  Last night, the 335 was killer and everyone noticed and liked its tone/power.  Truth is, Uwe's right.  The Midtown is a softer sound, but it's strong too.  It also doesn't resonant the way the 335 does.  The 335 is strong, distinct and powerful.  I managed the 34" neck easily for a couple hours, so that's good too!

Yep, it's pricey, but I can cover it and make some room by selling a few things. My wife loved it and thought it was cool we had just toured the factory were it was made.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on April 09, 2013, 05:14:41 AM
What a ringing recommendation! And I also now get it why they call it Custom Shop if its made in that other plant in Memphis.

Re the Midtown: I have no issues with maho necks on maho bodies or maho necks on maho bodies with a maple top, it's just that a maho neck on a maple body doesn't do anything for me. It has neither the warmth of a maho body with a maple neck (while retaining focus and adding snap), the attack of a full maple bass or the warmth and fullness of a full maho bass. Rather, the maho neck stunts the sound qualities of the maple body and vice versa.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Chris P. on April 09, 2013, 05:21:57 AM
Cool!

And the Verythin Bass sure has bindings!

http://www.beatlebassdealer.com/Hofner-Basses-2011/hofner-verythin-bass.png
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: godofthunder on April 09, 2013, 05:55:07 AM
 Sounds like a keeper Bill!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 09, 2013, 06:02:38 AM
Cool!

And the Verythin Bass sure has bindings!

http://www.beatlebassdealer.com/Hofner-Basses-2011/hofner-verythin-bass.png


Hofner sure does make beautiful hollow body instruments.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 09, 2013, 06:04:27 AM
Sounds like a keeper Bill!

Yep, so far she's a winner by all of the measures that count to me.  She isn't your father's old EB-2, that's for sure!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Chris P. on April 12, 2013, 01:51:31 PM
I spoke to the head of the Nashville Gibson CS. This is their first bass. It looks very cool in real life and there was a sunburst on the Messe. Maybe it's already discussed here, but it has guitar humbuckers:) He said an EB2 follows in '14.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 12, 2013, 04:50:29 PM
I spoke to the head of the Nashville Gibson CS. This is their first bass. It looks very cool in real life and there was a sunburst on the Messe. Maybe it's already discussed here, but it has guitar humbuckers:) He said an EB2 follows in '14.

Well, I love this bass after all.  While I love the old hum bucker in the original EB2, this bass is growing on me.  As for tone and output, it really rocks.  No feedback at high volumes while standing right in front of my rig.  And the e-string is loud and strong!  I am impressed with this bass.  A nice unplanned replacement for my gretsch long scale.

Oh boy, an EB2 in 2014?  The guys are killing me!  I never dreamed that they would even do one hollow body again, let alone a string of them.   Looking forward to the next one!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 13, 2013, 03:49:30 AM
PS Mr. RIC.  See, it's not that hard to take a guitar body and build a bass around it.  Duh.  :P

Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Chris P. on April 13, 2013, 03:53:54 AM
It is the Memphis CS. Made a mistake.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 13, 2013, 02:32:49 PM
It is the Memphis CS. Made a mistake.

No problem, we knew what you meant.  The Memphis factory is really a great tour, I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 23, 2013, 05:03:07 AM
Changed the string on the 335 to D'Addario Chromes and took it to practice last night.  Wow, did it sound great!  The thing that surprised me about the Chromes was how alive they sounded, not too thumpy at all.  A really good alternative to the over priced TIs I tend to favor and low enough tension for me to enjoy.

I cut right through the mix with this bass.  The pups in this thing are huge!  They really remind me of TB pups in my reverse birds.  They may be guitar pups, but they sure are at home with the construction of this bass.  Again, I was surprised that I didn't get any feedback at high volumes, standing right in front of my rig.  I wishI could accurately describe the tone I'm getting with this thing, but it really does take me back 45 years.  It's partly the amp I'm sure, but this bass sounds like it was made for a tube amp and 15" speakers.  It's deep and rich sounding, but has plenty of highs to be heard above the din of a 3 piece band.  The other thing that really impresses me is the evenness of output across all 4 strings.  This bass shines in that department as well.

In spite of the little bit of extra effort it takes for me to play a 34" scale, I will be using this bass at every gig from now on.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: godofthunder on April 23, 2013, 01:02:34 PM
 Bill stopped by with his 335 today and all I can say is wow! certainly the best offering of this new spate of Gibsons in the past few years. A great sounding and playing bass and what a beauty! My only gripe is upper register access. thanks for stopping by Bill!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on April 24, 2013, 04:40:40 AM
Bill stopped by with his 335 today and all I can say is wow! certainly the best offering of this new spate of Gibsons in the past few years. A great sounding and playing bass and what a beauty! My only gripe is upper register access. thanks for stopping by Bill!

It was great to see you Scott.  Lunch was super too.  I also got to see/play Carlo's blue NR, what a great bass.  Gibson could take some lessons from him.

I agree with Scott.  Gibson finally came out with a bass that really is a great mix of construction, playability and aesthetics.  It's a wonderful instrument.  Way to go Memphis!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: fur85 on May 01, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
Some video of Luther Dickinson of the North Mississippi All Stars with the first ES-335 bass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUt6onXIko

I like it!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: TobaccoRipper on May 14, 2013, 05:46:52 AM
First impressions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KPPw1Ry2rc4#!

Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on May 14, 2013, 06:47:35 AM
Cool little video, thanks!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 14, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Yes, we've been waiting decades for them to bring back the 335 bass!  :rolleyes:

Sounds good. I wish some of these demo guys would dig in a little harder, but whatever.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on May 14, 2013, 08:40:21 AM
Yes, we've been waiting decades for them to bring back the 335 bass!  :rolleyes:

Sounds good. I wish some of these demo guys would dig in a little harder, but whatever.

Yeah, he clearly doesn't know Gibson bass history!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: ilan on May 14, 2013, 09:44:11 AM
I wish some of these demo guys would dig in a little harder, but whatever.
I wish some of these demo guys were good bass players. I'm sorry, but too many times it sounds and looks like guitar players doing bass demos, and it bugs me.

I must say I wasn't floored by the sound. But that was only the neck pickup. I would like to hear the bridge pickup solo'ed, and both. And some pick playing. In short, I would like to see a professional demo.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on May 14, 2013, 10:59:58 AM
I think the demo gives you an idea - sounds LP Signature'ish to me, surprisingly piano ringish for neck pup mode only.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: copacetic on May 14, 2013, 11:13:10 AM
Ditto on all four previous points! Looks are good and neck profile definitely make it my book. Might like to trymitmput with some nickle flats for a deciding factor.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: TobaccoRipper on May 15, 2013, 01:47:07 AM
That guy who does the demo of the bass is using a pick at the beginning of the clip. He also uses the front and the bridge pick up. Look at 0:24 when he use the Toogle-Switch to select the Bridge Pick Up.

I agree that it is not correct that we've been waiting decades for it but IMO it's a updated version of the EB-2 not a reissue.

The only problem is that I want one of these so bad!!! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Chris P. on May 15, 2013, 02:31:39 AM
Reissue will be there in a year.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 15, 2013, 07:28:48 AM
I'm sorry, but too many times it sounds and looks like guitar players doing bass demos, and it bugs me.

+1
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 15, 2013, 08:39:58 AM
At least he's not slapping and popping the hell out of it.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on May 15, 2013, 09:26:41 AM
At least he's not slapping and popping the hell out of it.

I agree with all!  Get an experienced bass player and one who doesn't slap the crap out of the bass!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Blackbird on December 08, 2013, 07:25:15 AM
I was at the local Long And MacQuade on Saturday to rent an acoustic bass for a set we are doing in January at the studio owner's home.  And there at the back wall was one of these in Black.  Sharp indeed.  Edgier look that the ones with binding.  Priced at 1999, par for US dollars.  It was one of those that I wish I could buy, but it would see such little use with the music I play.  It was a fun bass, sounded great - I prefer everything dimed, but never had much time with it.  Bit of minor finish issues where the board meets the body, nothing I'd fret over  - pun intended!!   :)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 08, 2013, 08:17:05 AM
L&M has em you say. ... just another reason to stay away, don't need the gas.

So you're Canadian Blackbird?  Where abouts?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Blackbird on December 08, 2013, 08:42:26 AM
L&M has em you say. ... just another reason to stay away, don't need the gas.

So you're Canadian Blackbird?  Where abouts?

I'm in Halifax.

L&M doesn't have them listed, this kinda just popped out of nowhere by the sounds of it.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on December 08, 2013, 10:50:24 AM
...
So you're Canadian Blackbird?  Where abouts?

Shouldn't that be where aboot, eh?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/davepix/humor/canadian-csi.jpg)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 08, 2013, 01:28:11 PM
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/racist1.gif)

  (obviously :P)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Blackbird on December 08, 2013, 04:28:06 PM
Shouldn't that be where aboot, eh?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/davepix/humor/canadian-csi.jpg)

That's aboot right!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: stiles72 on December 08, 2013, 08:44:14 PM
I was looking for a comparison of the 335 and the Midtown and found these videos. If I had the scratch I'd spring for one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXprNv-EkjU  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsnS49ei1M
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on December 09, 2013, 11:54:52 AM
My 335 sounds great with flats on it, still has nice mid and high tones and a lot of presence.  The rounds are just a little too clangy.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: exiledarchangel on December 14, 2013, 02:30:23 PM
That shape with a muddy in the neck and a TB+ in the middle position would be sweet.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Basvarken on December 15, 2013, 05:02:50 AM
See the chrome
Feel the chrome
Touch the chrome
Heal the chrome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ubBw3dE8Wc
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Denis on December 15, 2013, 08:24:21 AM
Hahaha, that song has always cracked me up! Thanks for reminding me of it!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: nofi on December 15, 2013, 03:19:31 PM
when i was a big zappa fan i had his whole catalog on vinyl. but i began to lose interest in the 'funny stuff' so i moved on. this was how certain members of the band felt as well. :sad:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2013, 03:51:49 AM
See the chrome
Feel the chrome
Touch the chrome
Heal the chrome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ubBw3dE8Wc

OMG, doo-wop, Beach Boys, Todd Rundren and even part-German lyrics all rolled into one.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2013, 05:33:25 AM
I was looking for a comparison of the 335 and the Midtown and found these videos. If I had the scratch I'd spring for one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXprNv-EkjU  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsnS49ei1M

Goes to show that Midtown and 335 are not miles apart as regards quality of sounds (of course the build of the 335 is more expensive), the Midtown is blurrier and has more raunch, the 335 is more tight and focused. looking at them side by side in that vid, I find the smaller body of the Midtown even more elegant/sleeker, the larger body of the 335 makes even a long scale look short scalish.
Title: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
Post by: stiles72 on December 11, 2014, 08:22:47 PM
I pulled the trigger on one of these and it showed up today. Here it is with it's semi-hollow counterparts, a DeArmond Starfire and the Gibson Midtown. My initial impressions are mixed... I had read that these were a big step up from the Midtown, but IMO I don't think so. They have different tone woods and different build methodologies, but they are equal as far as fit, finish, hardware, and other common traits. One really isn't better than the other - they are just different, although the price was way different. One thing I notice about the 335 compared to the other two is that it feels very light and "delicate".  The bass came with extremely low action and the pickups were raised right up close to the strings, so it's a big clank fest -  and I'll need to make some adjustments before posting my thoughts on the plugged in sound.  The unplugged tone however is very light, woody, and "boxy". Reminds me of a Hofner I played a while ago. More to come...

(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/stiles72/335-BASS-3_zps992c62d3.jpg)

(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/stiles72/335bass003_zps21a19144.jpg)

(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/stiles72/335basssss006_zps4e0a4b97.jpg)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on December 11, 2014, 09:31:27 PM
Nice looking trio! Congrats on the 335, hopefully the setup will be an easy remedy.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 12, 2014, 05:21:37 PM
All your basses look kinda the same, you don't collect for shapes, do you?  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 12, 2014, 05:51:27 PM
Do all of the 335 Basses have bound necks?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 12, 2014, 06:05:21 PM
Yup - as do the Midtown basses. Everybody likes bound necks on semis, except that little punk Canuck.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 13, 2014, 02:23:50 AM
Do any Thunderbirds have bound necks...? Just thinking that re mine having it...

Anyway, we should define Hoser's Canadians... ;)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZvAVcBIrQ

... and something 335/Hoser related...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3RJnmTwjck
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 13, 2014, 04:11:03 AM
Yup - as do the Midtown basses. Everybody likes bound necks on semis, except that little punk Canuck.  :popcorn:

Actually, I don't. My Les Paul Sigs and EB-2 are all binding-less on the necks. None of the Gibson Basses I prefer have bindings (LP Sigs, TBirds, EB's)  which is why I asked if a 335 could be had without it.

HEY....Great Max Webster live clip above. I used to see them live back in the day when they played Rochester/Buffalo. Never caught them while Billy Sheehan was briefly in the band though. That was probably interesting. Good band.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 13, 2014, 01:55:31 PM
Max fan here too... they rarely played here but got to see them three times in close order... twice supporting Rush and they also played a short notice gig at the Marquee, which coincided with my 22nd...
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on December 13, 2014, 09:47:43 PM
Do any Thunderbirds have bound necks...? Just thinking that re mine having it...

Anyway, we should define Hoser's Canadians... ;)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZvAVcBIrQ

....

Since you brought up the McKenzies, might as well include a certain well-known Canadian bassist on vocal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BFPt001PYU
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 14, 2014, 07:35:20 AM
I thought we were talking Canadians, not Rush-ians... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 14, 2014, 11:09:13 AM
I NEVER thought I would be defending Canadians, after years on the radio along the New York/CANADIAN border and having Canadians always call to request bands from their country.

It was such fun taunting them over the airwaves :)

BUT.....Canada HAS actually had the last laugh on America. At this point, Canadian radio is SOOOOO much better than its U.S. counterpart. you can hear amazing music up in Canada, especially classic rock and obscure-to-Americans tracks.

IMO, it is because Canada lacks the Black and Hispanic demographics, due to the cold, that have taken over the U.S. music industry and ruined it. Rock is pretty much dead. If it wasn't on American Idol or some othe TV "make a star" show, or rap/HipHop or in Spanish.....there is NO NEW ROCK MUSIC being aired. A good argument for another ice age, no?

And American "music television" is even worse. MTV and the others have decided to ram either "global/world music" or rap/HipHop down our throats.  I ised to laugh at how bad "Euro Pop" was when I was over there a lot in the 90s...horrid pop or dance pop. Now MTV's idiotic vision has forced the U.S. To "catch up" to the rest of the world's music.

AMERICA STARTED ROCK 'N' ROLL, JAZZ...HELL, EVEN RAP AND HIP HOP.
WHY....would we want to become the "rest of the world" in music?

That is as stupid as if Hollywood deciding to imitate Euro or Baliwood/Indian filmmaking.

But Pandora's Box has been opened. it cannot be reversed. Just like the Internet completely changing what had been the record industry. Now no one wants to pay for music. Crazy that all musicians should become buskers with disposable wares, like video games that are thrown away every six months.


Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 15, 2014, 05:21:08 PM
"IMO, it is because Canada lacks the Black and Hispanic demographics, due to the cold, that have taken over the U.S. music industry and ruined it. Rock is pretty much dead. If it wasn't on American Idol or some othe TV "make a star" show, or rap/HipHop or in Spanish.....there is NO NEW ROCK MUSIC being aired. A good argument for another ice age, no?"

Ouch, Jon, you can't be serious about this. :rolleyes: Roberto Agustín Miguel Santiago Samuel Trujillo Veracruz must then be the secret Hispanic weapon to undermine WASP (the ethnicity, not the band) heayy metal, I am holding my breath until he has finally turned Metallica into a Latino Samba band, it can't be long!!!

Black music, Latin music and white man's rock co-existed for decades (and sometimes even mingled) without getting much in each other's way. I don't think that Gloria Estefan killed all those hair bands in the 80ies nor that Curzo Cubano (or whatever his name was)

(http://cp91279.biography.com/Kurt-Cobain_Becoming-a-Father_HD_768x432-16x9.jpg)

looked overtly South American, yet he killed more rock bands than Shakira.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs_YhWzY8xI

And black people have always been the death of rock'n'roll, I know:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4520hkB0vM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIU4znetPlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeCQq3ot_Qo

Your comparison with the Canadian music scene is inherently flawed because that has always had different preferences to the US market: Off-the-wallish (Max Webster, Gowan), simplistic (BTO, Loverboy) or seriously proggish (Rush), the Canadian music scene has always been less trend-conscious than the US. Some people called it backwards and laughed about April Wine and Triumph, others loved it. Not a new thing. I think your "invisible climate borders keep Canada free from unwanted de-rockifying interferences from migrating warm temperature folk" needs to be re-explored!  :mrgreen:

Now don't look at me, I'm trying to save rock'n'icicle'roll!!! Remember the Alamo!!!
(http://twotribes.com/images/sized/images/uploads/berichten/indexvisual_iceage-373x246.jpg)

And how those darn Spics just can't rock or prog ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxCGT8l0Rao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVgZtUZXyfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5LJ1p5xQYM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNslkIdyprw
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 15, 2014, 05:43:49 PM
I'm not a big fan of current radio, but I think the answer to negative music trends in the US is simple: Clear Channel.

Where we used to be a country full of locally programmed stations with local and regional preferences, the "Clear-Channelization" of the US has turned most markets into remotely programmed stations with little more in the way of equipment than a satellite downlink (or fiber optic line) and a booth to record local IDs and spots - unless those are also produced remotely.

Clear Channel (aka: IHeartMedia, Inc.) programs much of what we hear. It runs more than 850 radio stations in 150 US markets, operates more than one million outdoor advertising sites, and runs live concerts and events. Their digital music service connects to more than 1500 stations.

Some may say that terrestrial radio is irrelevant today, but these guys also own much of the commercial digital market.  And if you don't like what they program, tough toenails.  They're programming to youth markets with trendy music, much of which does not appeal to me - and I think, not to many here.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 15, 2014, 06:15:52 PM
UWE.....

I think you mistook my disdain of rap/HipHop and a third of the NYC area radio stations no longer in English, with Black and Hispanic musicians playing rock/funk/salsa/whatever. I have no problem with that at all and that is what makes music great.

My gripe is with rap/HipHop and the wave of Spanish language/music radio/TV that has squeezed American rock/pop off the air and underground.

Personally, I have always felt that rap should have not be classified as music but, instead, under the "Spoken Word" category. Like old 60s Beat poets reading poetry over bongo drums were.

HipHop with musicians and actual singers is OK...but guys who cannot sing a note and only rap...Spoken Word.

But I guess you can't argue with sales numbers or else that stuff would not have taken over 90 percent of music TV and radio. But it's the vicious cycle....if it wasn't getting the AirPlay and exposure, it wouldn't be selling. So, it's what the labels are making money on and what the Music TV stations are making money on.

Just sad when you hear kids blasting that stuff and then comment that " no one plays guitars anymore."

The only point that is missed is that rap, as a song form, has a short shelf life. I cannot see it as songs that will likely be "covered" by future artists. It seems like an art form that survives largely on one-offs.  That is quite the opposite of what popular music has lived on over the past 50 years, when great songs are covered and recycled by each new generation of artists.

I AM surprised that rap/HipHop has lasted as long as it has. I figured it would be like disco and die out within a decade. When they started with the vocoders and the pitch shifter Chipmonk high voices, I thought it had run its course and become a parody of itself....but nope, still here.  I though it had gotten to the point that goofy hair metal had reached in the late 80s, where all the bands started to look and sound the same and the genre became a parody of itself and died.


Regarding CLEAR CHANNEL and the other radio chains that now program vast chains of  sound alike radio.....I fully agree that is also a major problem.

As a former FM radio DJ, that nightmare began back in the mid-1970s when "Affirmative Action" was put into law. Before that, when you wanted to be a radio DJ in America, you were hired based on your voice talent and knowledge of music...and you had to pass a fairly difficult FCC written test to get your radio broadcast license. You had to know how to read and adjust the radio transmitter, basic electronics and other crazy stuff. It was NOT and easy test and you really needed to pass it to get on-air.

So....enter "Affirmative Action" and it's attack on American broadcasting, to get more minorities on-air. Even if they had a decent radio voice and knew music....many could not pass the required FCC test. Hell, many did not know the music either.

So....as the FCC/U.S. government was forcing radio and TV stations to hired more minorities as on-air talent and they realized they could not pass the requirements....the FCC did away with the test to get your license. That was the first nail in the coffin of American radios. THEN, as stations hired these new radio DJs and they did not know the music, programming tightened up. Stations stopped letting all the great radio DJs choose their own music to air and started posting playlists. That led to the Program Directors who were getting the better ratings to be deemed "geniuses" and their formats getting licensed out to other stations to clone them for similar ratings to cash in on advertising...and after decades of this bullshit, we now have massive chains of the same radio formats, like CLEAR CHANNEL.

And it all started with the well intentioned concept of "Affirmative Action."  Ironically, the Black guy my station hired was really good and knew the music too. His first day on-air was following me after my midnight to six a.m. slot. I buzzed him in when he rang the doorbell and the light had lit up, while I was on mic doing a commercial. When I was done, I turned around and got startled because I was not told he was Black and the radio station was in the middle of the 'hood. He laughed and said, "wasn't expectin' a nig*er, was ya?"  I always remembered that opening line. He was a funny guy and we became good friends. He ended up holding the record in America for the DJ who was at the same station the longest...something like 25 years, I think. He ended up getting shot to death while collecting rent from a tenant of his in another part of the 'hood in town. Sad ending.

I actually left that station and went to its competition in town, when I got offered the Program Director job...They hired me as a "Hispanic Female" on the books and told me to "hide if anyone comes in who looks like they are from the FCC."  I'm sure I was one of the only white guys who got hired because of "Affirmative Action."  :)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: patman on December 15, 2014, 06:59:47 PM
I've spent my life playing soul music and hillbilly music.  I hate the homogenized crap happening now.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 15, 2014, 07:08:47 PM
I'm an old DJ myself - worked both local and regional stations in the 60's and 70's.  I still have my 3rd phone (Third Class Radiotelephone Operator) licenses in a frame somewhere.

I can't agree about the affirmative action assertions. The 3rd phone was never really needed to monitor the transmitter at a station, at least by the time I got into radio in 1968. It was a held-over artifact of days gone by, and clearly could have been dispensed with much earlier.  I can't swear why the requirement for that license on the part of board ops was eliminated, but it was past due in any case.

Affirmative action is something people argue about.  Myself, I think it's much more of a plus than a minus, but like most laws, there are times when its pursuit or enforcement results in stupid and illogical outcomes.  The world just doesn't operates in black and white, there's a lot of grey in real life.

If individual stations felt a need to shift their staffing patterns, that was only appropriate given the way the rest of the US was changing; they needed to wake up to the fact that their staff tended to be monocultural, not representing the breadth of listeners they had even if their music format was pretty tight.  It wasn't something that the FCC forced them to do; Big Brother wasn't taking attendance and checking faces at radio stations.

I do think that cultural shifts have taken place in the US.  As a result, I have two grown daughters whose tastes include Hip-Hop as well as classic rock, country and pop.  Let's face it, music and the US population have gone far past Bob's Country Bunker, where they have both kinds of music - country AND western.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 15, 2014, 07:45:08 PM
I don't like most rap or hip-hop either, but I think it is a valid cultural form of music. No, it's mostly not melodic, but it is rhythmic, macho, disillusioned, violent, sexist, provocative, urban and black. Sort of what the MC5 might have been to white Detroit youths in the late sixties.

But I think it has nothing to do with the retreat of rock music. In fact it has had some influence, some of the jagged rhythms of today's harder rock music owe perhaps more to Grandmaster Flash & Furious Five than to, say, Foghat. Just like the much derided Disco influenced rock to turn up the drums in volume and have the kick drum become more simplistic, hypnotic and accessible.

I've only recently bought CDs by KC & The sunshine Band, O'Jays, George McCrae and The Three Degrees. I'm a rocker, but if your butt doesn't move when you hear Love Train, then you're probably dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr4VM2qs_kE
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on December 15, 2014, 10:30:49 PM
I don't believe affirmative action ever changed anyone's taste in music.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2014, 06:14:47 AM
 :mrgreen: Naw, Im sure that incessant TV barrage of Soul Train corrupted American white youth in the 70ies and led to the demise of rock as we know it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXbP4JBf8To

Mark Twain would probably say that the one slight problem with people criticizing affirmative action (be it for race or gender background) is that they are themselves usually part of an ethnnicity or a gender that profitted for centuries from the reverse, i.e. negative action against minorities. And that they were not quite as vocal about the injustice that prevailed then as they are regarding the one that they deem to be existing now.  8)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 16, 2014, 06:39:02 AM
I don't like most rap or hip-hop either, but I think it is a valid cultural form of music. No, it's mostly not melodic, but it is rhythmic, macho, disillusioned, violent, sexist, provocative, urban and black. Sort of what the MC5 might have been to white Detroit youths in the late sixties.

But I think it has nothing to do with the retreat of rock music. In fact it has had some influence, some of the jagged rhythms of today's harder rock music owe perhaps more to Grandmaster Flash & Furious Five than to, say, Foghat. Just like the much derided Disco influenced rock to turn up the drums in volume and have the kick drum become more simplistic, hypnotic and accessible.

I've only recently bought CDs by KC & The sunshine Band, O'Jays, George McCrae and The Three Degrees. I'm a rocker, but if your butt doesn't move when you hear Love Train, then you're probably dead.

Most of that is old school funk and Motown R&B.

I saw Grandmaster Flash, Curtis Blow and Bad Brains in clubs all back before they were famous.

My one drummer who I played with for awhile is Black and produced the Rap to Rock TV series. He's done studio work with lots of name rap/HipHop artists, as well as Billy Joel, Weather Report, Fathead Newman...spanning HipHop, jazz, rock.

My late guitarist and GF who I played with for 20 years was white but played blacker than most black folks. She played seven nights a week in Harlem as the sole white member of a funk/jazz band with black session players, some of who were in the band Stuff. The Family Stand called her to come sit in and jam when the played the Meadowlands arena in NJ. She played on a number of funk/jazz releases.

My keyboard player toured as Larry Mitchell's keyboardist before us, when he was on Buitar Player Magazine's label...although he was more an upcoming HENDRIX/Living Color black guitarist at that time.

So...I do know more than just white boy music :)

I also managed an all-girl rockabilly band who went to HS with the Stray Cats. They doubled as the backup band for the 50s/60s R&B/DooWop band The Jive Five. If I could hang with those old school cats, drinking Thunderbird backstage...I think I can hang with any Black artists.

Besides, I also live and play in New Orleans part of  the time. You can't not know Black music and do that :)

Despite THAT.....I still think it is complete sacrilege that Little Wayne, form New Orleans, broke Elvis Presley's record for most Billboard #1 records!!

I STILL contend that rap records will go largely uncovered by future artists, which greatly destroys a songs future royalties value....which reinforces my point that rap should be classified as "Spoken Word" and not music. It IS a valid art form and social/political phenomenon but I contend, not music.
HipHop with melody and instruments is: rap over just beats, no.

And Affirative Action WAS the root of the decline of American radio. Stations WERE forced to hired unqualified persons by the FCC or face losing their broadcast licenses. I don't argue that mandatory 3rd Class Radiotelephone Operators Licenses  seemed excessive and maybe antiquated back in the mid-70s...but that was still the law, until the FCC killed that to enable Affirmative Action hirings.
Yeah...I still have mine in a folder too. had to drive a couple hours in a blizzard, from rochester to Buffalo, to take the test. I HAD to have one because I "combo'd" on my midnight to 6 a.m. shift, meaning there was no separate engineer who ran the turntables or pressed the buttons while I spoke. A lot of radio stations used to have separate engineers and separate voice DJs. The FCC required a radio station to always have an licensed engineer on duty, so if you combo'd, you had to have the FCC license because you were required to do hourly transmitter readings. In my case, at certain times during the night, I also had to change the transmitter power and broadcast direction. I would imagine all that sort of stuff is automated now but back then it was done manually in a roomful of huge rack electronics that looked like a SCi-fi movie from the '50s.

BTW I was also one of the first U.S. radio DJ regularly playing reggae on the radio and also produced some early reggae acts recordings.


NOW.....in a valiant attempt to segue this back onto the topic of the OP.....I don't think the Gibson 335 Bass would be my first choice, if I were playing in a funk, sisco or HipHop band.  I would probably go with a solid body bass.  :)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 16, 2014, 09:42:12 AM

Yeah...I still have mine in a folder too. had to drive a couple hours in a blizzard, from rochester to Buffalo, to take the test. I HAD to have one because I "combo'd" on my midnight to 6 a.m. shift, meaning there was no separate engineer who ran the turntables or pressed the buttons while I spoke. A lot of radio stations used to have separate engineers and separate voice DJs. The FCC required a radio station to always have an licensed engineer on duty, so if you combo'd, you had to have the FCC license because you were required to do hourly transmitter readings. In my case, at certain times during the night, I also had to change the transmitter power and broadcast direction. I would imagine all that sort of stuff is automated now but back then it was done manually in a roomful of huge rack electronics that looked like a SCi-fi movie from the '50s.


Maintaining our diversion (in the grand traditions here...), every station I worked at was a one-man operation when on the air.  Never had an "engineer" even if that was just a board op with a 1st phone so he fit the FCC requirements. I ran the board, pulled the music and spots, took the transmitter readings...and in many cases emptied the trash, was on-air at remotes and sold advertising as well.

Small market radio, most of it.  A TON of fun, and one of the things that has been almost entirely lost. I have never, ever done any work that's more fun than live radio with no safety net. Absolutely a blast!

Yup, I made those 30-minute transmitter readings, changed power, etc.  Many of the transmitters I worked with were probably 50's vintage. Loved those big bakelite buttons and analog dials and meters. I remember punching the buttons and throwing the switches at sign-on and watching the dials crawl up into the operating range.  Analog everything!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 16, 2014, 10:18:53 AM
Yup - as do the Midtown basses. Everybody likes bound necks on semis, except that little punk Canuck.  :popcorn:

It's grown on me since the Triumph became my main player.... I just wish they used something other than cream - that always looks awful (especially for pup rings and other trim).
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2014, 11:54:05 AM
Jon, I wasn't all over you as the resident KKK member or anything, I know you have too much brains to be a racist. (Racism is the cult of the inane.)

I grant you that rap doesn't get covered much - that probably has to do with the fact that in rap circles you're nothing if you don't write and rhyme your own lyrics. And that a lot of rap music addresses a certain point or situation in time. No one ever covers Dylan's Hurricane - IMHO his best song and one of his most gripping lyrics - either, that song has done its job, you can't take it out of its periodic context, it would be an empty shell today (which is why Dylan never ever performs it anymore either).

Whether rap is music or spoken poems with some background rhythm is a moot discussion, minimalist music has (and always has had) its place, tribal African drumming doesn't know harmony or melody either, yet we would both hopefully agree that it is a form of music too.

Rap is the voice of black urban youth who rightly or wrongly feel that there is really nobody else who speaks for them. That is why it has its niche. It has always been commercialised and watered down - ever since Sugarhill Gang's Rapper's Delight - and has had its influence on dance music and Euro pop, even  quite a bit of rock (Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Rage Against the Machine), but I can't attribute rock's decline to the rise of rap. More likely, white youth has more means of voicing frustration, they don't need to latch on to rock as doggedly as black youths do to rap.

And as regards affirmative action: I infinitely prefer someone being hired because he/she is black to someone not being hired because he/she is black. Once affirmative action has as long a history as slavery and subjugation of black people, we can renew the discussion. In another two hundred years or so?  8)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 01:14:11 PM
I NEVER thought I would be defending Canadians, after years on the radio along the New York/CANADIAN border and having Canadians always call to request bands from their country.

It was such fun taunting them over the airwaves :)

BUT.....Canada HAS actually had the last laugh on America. At this point, Canadian radio is SOOOOO much better than its U.S. counterpart. you can hear amazing music up in Canada, especially classic rock and obscure-to-Americans tracks.

IMO, it is because Canada lacks the Black and Hispanic demographics, due to the cold, that have taken over the U.S. music industry and ruined it. Rock is pretty much dead. If it wasn't on American Idol or some othe TV "make a star" show, or rap/HipHop or in Spanish.....there is NO NEW ROCK MUSIC being aired. A good argument for another ice age, no?

And American "music television" is even worse. MTV and the others have decided to ram either "global/world music" or rap/HipHop down our throats.  I ised to laugh at how bad "Euro Pop" was when I was over there a lot in the 90s...horrid pop or dance pop. Now MTV's idiotic vision has forced the U.S. To "catch up" to the rest of the world's music.

AMERICA STARTED ROCK 'N' ROLL, JAZZ...HELL, EVEN RAP AND HIP HOP.
WHY....would we want to become the "rest of the world" in music?

That is as stupid as if Hollywood deciding to imitate Euro or Baliwood/Indian filmmaking.

But Pandora's Box has been opened. it cannot be reversed. Just like the Internet completely changing what had been the record industry. Now no one wants to pay for music. Crazy that all musicians should become buskers with disposable wares, like video games that are thrown away every six months.

I don't have your insight into Canada.  Being in the Deep South, I'm too far away.  But I agree with what you're saying here.  I do agree that rap killed rock.  Not too many people seem to listen to rock anymore.  I'll give an example of a younger relative.  She has always totally hated rock, especially the Beatles.  She also hates Hendrix.  She will listen to neither.  She also isn't interested in any new rock music.  To her there are only two genres:  rap/hip-hop and country.  Nothing else, period.  To me personally, this seems like a bizarre combination.  As for country, I'm not talking too much about the new country, either.  She likes stuff like obscure Carter family songs and that sort of thing.  But if you put on any rock at all, she'll run out of the room screaming. 

That's just one example, but your examples of how rap/hip-hop has been crammed down the throats of the American people is accurate, IMO.  I can get one station in this area that plays some hard rock, but even they are beginning to sprinkle their selections now with a few rap songs.  It's almost all rap and country, rap and country.  Believe me, there is nothing else, literally.  Unless, of course, you want to throw in what they call pop music now.  I hardly even know what to say about current pop.  Meghan Trainor, anyone?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 16, 2014, 01:31:07 PM
I think that for many years, rock was THE alternative form of music. Protest in the 60's was part folk, but heavily in rock music. As new forms of protest music emerge, rap and hip-hop seem like excellent candidates for that role.

Country and hip-hop seem like **extremely odd** bedfellows to me.  I am challenged to find commonnality in ethos, musical structure or culture.

Radio around the Denver market is mainly based in pop, country, classic rock, psycho-paranoid-ultra-conservative talk and sports talk. There isn't a large minority poulation other than Hispanics, which explains a number of Spanish language stations.   
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 01:46:18 PM
Maybe my area is atypical.  But there are quite a few people who seem to latch on to the country/hip-hop combination.  They may like either, or they may like both.  But rock is almost unknown now in my world.  Of course, personally I can always listen to it or play it.  I'm just saying that in the real world now, it almost doesn't exist for me.  It's that bad.  It's true there is one light rock station here that plays what might be called rock.  But that's the blandest part of rock.  Listening to that all the time would put someone into a coma.  That's the station they have on in my chiropractor's office.  Whatever new rock there may be simply isn't being played on the radio around here.  As has already been mentioned, it's definitely not on TV anymore, either.  As for local clubs and rock, forget it.  Most people don't want that anymore.  They basically want modern pop, country, or hip-hop, as already stated here.  The kind of stuff that somebody out there is trying to push on the American public.  God only knows how much money is now being made on these genres. 
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on December 16, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
All music has value as a representation of a culture and the people that produce and listen to it.  Each genre has its place and a story to tell. All of us are judged, rightly or wrongly, by the music we consume and condone.  I just don't care to listen to any music genre that is laced with profanity, misogyny, or gratuitous violence.  Just a matter of taste!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 16, 2014, 01:59:53 PM
I'm in talk-radio mode at the present mo... everything else (radio) here is not worth discussing...

Disco, rap, reggae, hop-hip... never did click any of it...

Rather oddly, just stumbled on a Finnish singer called Maija Vilkkumaa, all in Finnish language, and it's quite enjoyable... certainly not mass appeal... I could listen to her material in considerably more comfort than any of that other stuff... absolutely no idea what she's singing about...
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 02:14:27 PM
I'm in talk-radio mode at the present mo... everything else (radio) here is not worth discussing...

Disco, rap, reggae, hop-hip... never did click any of it...

Rather oddly, just stumbled on a Finnish singer called Maija Vilkkumaa, all in Finnish language, and it's quite enjoyable... certainly not mass appeal... I could listen to her material in considerably more comfort than any of that other stuff... absolutely no idea what she's singing about...

On one of my trips to Holland a few years ago, I was around one of my acquaintances one night listening to and talking about music.  He had recently been to Finland and had a new CD of Finnish hard rock.  Although I couldn't understand any of it, I loved it.  I'm not used to even being around anything like that now.  If he had been a friend instead of just an acquaintance, I might have asked him to at least let me borrow it.  But he said a lot of people listened to hard rock in Finland.  Evidently, it must be quite popular there.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2014, 03:15:27 PM
Each generation has its own art forms. Rock was the music of the 60ies and 70ies and reigned supreme then. It began to lose foothold in the 80ies and 90ies, but did a good job doggedly defending itself. Still, it is now "dad-music". Your son is not going to be able to impress or shock you with the statement that he just went to a Foo Fighters concert when you tell him you saw Led Zeppelin or The Who in 1973 with all members still alive. It's ok for the current generation of young people to wish to have their "own music" and to many the rock bands of today aren't really far enough removed from what we listen(ed) to to pass the "this is me"-test.

My 20 year old son likes 70ies and 80ies rock (and hates Nirvana just as much as U2), but it is in part his way of setting himself apart from his peer group. He is not revolting against me with his music taste (he's jealous that I have seen Lynyrd Skynyrd and he hasn't, we'll make good on that next year!), but against his peers. My 23 year old daughter, who grew up with the same music as her brother, is permissive in what music she likes. It can be dance floor electro pop or a Glenn Frey number she once heard in the car with me, but to her rock, pop, country, electro bop, world music etc is just an aural tapestry, not anything she identifies with or expresses herself with.

Something would be wrong with today's youth if they followed our rock afficionado footsteps.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 16, 2014, 03:56:14 PM
Did you see Skynyrd with RVZ...?
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 16, 2014, 04:00:51 PM
My 25 and 26 year old daughters will go to Dick Dale concerts with me.  Neither will listen to him on CD, but they really like the unique performance he puts on...he's one of those guys who is really about the live experience.  Last summer the older one brought her same-age boyfriend along; he had no idea who Dale was and listened to some of his music for the first time the week before the event.  He was completely blown away.

I guess all live music is powerful - but it seems to me that some types are more emotionally compelling than others. For those who like it, surely rap and hip-hop must be in that category.  But they do nuttin' for me.

Like Bill said, " I just don't care to listen to any music genre that is laced with profanity, misogyny, or gratuitous violence."

So I'll listen to classic rock that's laced with references to sex and drugs. That's good, homeland American values at work!!
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 04:10:53 PM
Speaking of the profanity, I had a recent experience about songs and profanity.  I was reading an article about early 20th century music.  I'm not sure how widespread this was, but some of those songs were way more graphic and vulgar than I was expecting.  The best examples I wouldn't even be able to post here, though, even if I could find them now (which I doubt I could.)  Anyway, my point is I was kind of surprised. 
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on December 16, 2014, 04:42:02 PM
Did you see Skynyrd with RVZ...?

Naw, I think around that time they only toured Germany once in 1973 or so (with Queen as their opening act, the bands reputedly hated each other). I saw the lil' brother/Rick Medlocke outfit some years back. It was a good show. They "opened' for DP, but were allowed a full set. It was a good mix of old and new. And frankly, when I hear the kid brother singing those songs today, I don't think of RvZ anymore.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 16, 2014, 04:53:20 PM
Blackfoot toured with the Scorpions here... I have some good b&w's of that set, somewhere... I saw LS in '76 and '77 for the GBMB's tour and in support of the Fox Theatre LP...
They played one date in 74 and 4 in '75 in Germany, that I've found... '73 would have been circa the time they toured with Golden Earring, iirc...
I was not impressed with Led Zep live... vastly overrated...
The Who were stunners... end of story...
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 04:54:35 PM
In case anyone is interested, I found something which looks like a summary of the article I read about songs of the 20th century.  The original article was in much more depth.  I mostly concentrated on the period from 1900-1930.  I looked up songs on YouTube, listened to a few, listened to similar songs, etc.  It was somewhat interesting, but I finally decided I could probably make better use of my time.  Also, the music of that time period was so alien, I found it very hard to relate to.

Music up to 1955 was called pre-rock, btw.  I think we're already in the post-rock era, although it's too early to say exactly what the beginning date for that will be.  Something for the historians to decide at some point. 

http://www.verysmallarray.com/?p=1752


Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 16, 2014, 05:21:14 PM
Holy cow. Of their 10 least obscure hit songs, by title I only know two.  I'm sure I've heard some of the others, but I can only be sure of two.  Dang.

In the list of least obscure adjusted for time, I know all 10.

I have managed to steer clear of Spotify so I didn't listen to any of the music linked at the bottom.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: mc2NY on December 16, 2014, 06:21:33 PM
Well....I think one thing we can all agree on, no matter what the genre of music, it all eventually ends up in a horrid watered down version forced upon us in elevators.

Rather clever, IMO.....horrid versions of music forced upon a trapped audience, like a lab rat experiment.

I wonder what elevator versions of rap songs will sound like?

I'm sure Jay-Z must already the company that will produce RAP MUZAK.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: drbassman on December 16, 2014, 06:31:27 PM
My 27 year old son loves 60 and 70's rock as well as C&W.  My 30 year old daughter is a big C&W fan as well as some rap and hip hop.  They both love DWB.  They aren't big pop fans.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 07:21:01 PM
Well....I think one thing we can all agree on, no matter what the genre of music, it all eventually ends up in a horrid watered down version forced upon us in elevators.

Rather clever, IMO.....horrid versions of music forced upon a trapped audience, like a lab rat experiment.

I wonder what elevator versions of rap songs will sound like?

I'm sure Jay-Z must already the company that will produce RAP MUZAK.

The American public is already a trapped audience in a kind of lab rat experiment, but just doesn't know it.  Of course, this is my opinion, and I'm mostly speaking of what music is promoted to target audiences, etc.  Something like this has always gone on, but not like this.  Generational changes in music have always gone on, but in the past it has been more of a logically progressing flow through time. 
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 07:22:33 PM
Holy cow. Of their 10 least obscure hit songs, by title I only know two.  I'm sure I've heard some of the others, but I can only be sure of two.  Dang.

In the list of least obscure adjusted for time, I know all 10.

I have managed to steer clear of Spotify so I didn't listen to any of the music linked at the bottom.

Yes, it's unfortunate that Spotify had to be part of this; I agree.  I also steer clear of it.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 16, 2014, 07:29:22 PM
The American public is already a trapped audience in a kind of lab rat experiment, but just doesn't know it.  Of course, this is my opinion, and I'm mostly speaking of what music is promoted to target audiences, etc.  Something like this has always gone on, but not like this.  Generational changes in music have always gone on, but in the past it has been more of a logically progressing flow through time.

The public increasingly avoids radio and uses streaming and individualized services.  I think commercial radio has brought this on itself.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: westen44 on December 16, 2014, 07:39:09 PM
The public increasingly avoids radio and uses streaming and individualized services.  I think commercial radio has brought this on itself.

Thinking about this reminds me of when I used to listen to radio and actually enjoyed it.  But it looks like I'm not part of the mass market anymore.  I just don't listen now, period.  CDs in the car and at home; that's all. 
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Pilgrim on December 17, 2014, 08:50:55 AM
I admit that I listen to sports talk most of the time when I'm not on NPR's Morning Edition or All Things Considered. The first is amusing, the other two intelligent.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: patman on December 17, 2014, 04:37:35 PM
no talk radio for me...cd's mostly...a lot of bluegrass in the morning.  I love a lot of the "Newgrass" stuff...
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 22, 2014, 03:36:18 PM
I NEVER thought I would be defending Canadians, after years on the radio along the New York/CANADIAN border and having Canadians always call to request bands from their country.

It was such fun taunting them over the airwaves :)

BUT.....Canada HAS actually had the last laugh on America. At this point, Canadian radio is SOOOOO much better than its U.S. counterpart. you can hear amazing music up in Canada, especially classic rock and obscure-to-Americans tracks.

As a Canadian from the single largest (though, to be fair as regards your later argument) most diverse radio market, I have no idea what you're talking about.  Top 40 is top 40 all across the continent.

The only good thing that we've had happen in radio up here recently is that a University radio station (1 of 3 in Toronto) went under.  There was stiff competition for the rights to that point on the dial and luckily the regulator decided to not let major players in the market even bid.  It was billed as an all new independent music station.  We were all skeptical, and with good reason.  Though it does play some indie music (usually bands that were just signed to majors or are well on their way vs actual indie music) it's mostly playing retro 80s-90s alternative rock, basically like good olde CKNY's playlists in their heyday (now Edge 102, playing horrible "emo" and _core type shit... some neumetal too), which is hilarious, but I'll take it because I don't like it when I hear The Clash on the 'classic rock' station; makes me feel old  :P ). 


Anyway, back to the arg - Rap didn't kill rock (though I understand that arg considering how that's pretty much what teen white boys were listening to almost exclusively until very recently).  These things come in waves, and rock is coming back (even with the black kids).  (Mainstream/,ajor label) Rock got lame; irrelevant and derivative self-parody - for about 5-10 years there I didn't hear a single good new rock song on the radio.  Now that rap has run it's coarse and done pretty much the same thing (from OG MCs to silver spooners to top 40 internet meme jokes) kids are flocking back, why, because rock is fresh, or at least relevant, again (though now it may be called other things, if there's a distorted guitar on nearly every song on your record you are some subtype of rock).

On the indie side, it never went anywhere and was always relevant, but since the echo boomers weren't in college yet this is always ignored (underage, can't get into the clubs, find out about the bands).  Now they are (at least some of them) and lo and behold look what's happening and the rest are seeking the stuff out on the internet, and hitting paydirt.

It's not resuscitated yet, but far from dead.  Stable and in recovery.  It's Rap I'd be worried about now.... though I seem inclined to think it'll come around again too.  They can't control or destroy these mediums of expression/forces for socio-political change, all they can do is slowly corrupt/co-opt them into banal irrelevance when they hit that critical mass of  popularity.

Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on December 25, 2014, 07:49:27 PM
I think you guys are missing the boat in saying that rock is dead. Rock is what it always was. It's just not mass-marketed anymore. I'm also firmly of the somewhat informed opinion that record sales figures are near total contrivances and mass-played corporate garbage is simply self-fulfilled prophecy for mega corporations who subsidize and allow a few easily controlled (sex, drugs, etc) and disposable miscreants to gain enough fame and fortune to keep the system appearing rebellious and legitimate, when in reality, the "fortunes" made from "cd sales/downloads/wtf-ever" are corporate promotional write-offs and only the tip of the iceberg of money being made.  I don't know anybody that actually LIKES what is played on supposed "pop" radio/tv and I spend a great deal of time around its supposed prime market. They all like music that is older than they are by decades.

Here's my acid test: take a small segment from one of the many "multi-platinum" releases of today and in less than two years' time, see if the average listener can identify it. In most cases, they might recognize a heavily promoted star's signature sound, but I doubt if one in ten could even name the supposed "song." Everyone knows that the stuff is garbage, but all the channels of pointing it out on a mass scale are owned by the very entities that profit the most from it. Payola was a joke in comparison.

Am I the only one who had a smirking case of schadenfreude for Sony Pictures and its hacking problems? Is the American public supposed to start clamoring for Kim Jong Il's head because Sony had its dirty laundry aired publicly?  Is ISIS not enough of an evil to keep the American public quaking in terror and sending its children off to die attacking the boogeymen who feed the US Inc.?  I'll just be over here adjusting my tinfoil hat.  :o
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Dave W on December 26, 2014, 06:07:34 PM

Am I the only one who had a smirking case of schadenfreude for Sony Pictures and its hacking problems?

Couldn't happen to a more deserving company.

Is the American public supposed to start clamoring for Kim Jong Il's head because Sony had its dirty laundry aired publicly?  Is ISIS not enough of an evil to keep the American public quaking in terror and sending its children off to die attacking the boogeymen who feed the US Inc.?  I'll just be over here adjusting my tinfoil hat.  :o

I severely doubt N. Korea had anything to do with it. What do they have, one 56k modem?  ;D  In any case, you can count on any FBI or other official claims being a deliberate lie, whether or not they're trying to create a pretext to go after N. Korea.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Highlander on December 27, 2014, 02:46:38 AM
Nice post PBG... nice post...! ;)
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: Lightyear on December 27, 2014, 08:16:58 PM
Nice post PBG... nice post...! ;)

I heard a former CIA guy on longish NPR story, so take this with a grain of salt, but he said that current estimates are that North Korea has something like 1000 IP addresses in total.  What he did say is that NK intelligence works from off shore locations - most notably a NK owned hotel in China.  China, on the other hand, has tens of thousands of individuals actively working  to hack and disrupt western networks.
Title: Re: 335 Bass
Post by: uwe on January 06, 2015, 08:17:13 AM
You can't really defend anything that North Korea does or is professed to do.

But "The Interview" was in ill taste. Call me old-fashioned, but I'm not aware that films about the killing of living/active heads of state of other coutries are common anywhere in the world.

And if North Korea had done a propaganda movie showing a current US President being killed, I'm not so sure whether the CIA would have stood by watching it get a nationwide release in North Korea without some surprising "technical problems" suddenly coming out of nowhere, things happen. Much the same if an Arab nation had done a film showing Bibi N being killed, don't believe that the Mossad would have taken too kindly to that either and waved little freedom of speech and expression flags.

While there can be no excuse for threatening people's lives, that data sabotage within Sony shouldn't have come as a surprise if you push a film such as this one. And the film itself would have lost none of the comedy aspect if they had used a fictional figure in a fictional country - the parallels to real Kim in real North Korea could have still been telling, but I don't believe North Korea would have felt as provoked. I'm not aware of sabotage act against that (rubbish) James Bond movie (Die Another Day) that started with a lengthy scene in an obviously North Korean prison and torture camp and that starred an obviously North Korean villain.