1606
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1607
The Outpost Cafe / Re: Bass on Argus.
« on: August 12, 2015, 07:54:02 AM »
Hands where I can see them! 
As I mentioned in another thread, I had a chance to buy a white Epi T-bird that Martin Turner turned down, here in Edinburgh. I was told he had bought the other one, though I've yet to see him rock anything other than the original white Overend one or the Orville sunburst one.
I turned the Epiphone down too.
Somebody bought it though as it wasn't in stock last time I looked. I enthusiastically agreed to attend a band practice on Monday (wozzat?) and realise I don't have a case for my new T-bird. I've panic-bought a 'Rok Sak' for it. Here goes nothing. 
As I mentioned in another thread, I had a chance to buy a white Epi T-bird that Martin Turner turned down, here in Edinburgh. I was told he had bought the other one, though I've yet to see him rock anything other than the original white Overend one or the Orville sunburst one.
I turned the Epiphone down too.
Somebody bought it though as it wasn't in stock last time I looked. I enthusiastically agreed to attend a band practice on Monday (wozzat?) and realise I don't have a case for my new T-bird. I've panic-bought a 'Rok Sak' for it. Here goes nothing.
1608
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 12, 2015, 07:30:08 AM »
I have a project lined up for the black hardware I remove from the Tokai.
In short, I have a pair of Schaller JBX pickups and a much abused Cort GB24 bass. I've coated the fretboard with CA and buffed to a high gloss, not unlike the neck of a Rickenbacker. I plan to install the pickups in the Rickenbacker positions, add a bass-cut cap to the bridge pickup and get a custom pickguard made up that is 80% of the Cort original and 20% Rickenbacker 4005 (down by the controls). The bass will get the black tuners and bridge off of the Tokai.
I've broken the back of this project but I need to get the neck up and running first.
As for the Tokai, it seems everybody overlooks just how versatile a T-bird is. Yes, you can slam them with a pick and it comes out sounding good. However, fingerstyle on the bridge pickup sounds like any number of modern Jazz bass tones. Turn down the tone on the neck pickup and you have a nice dubby/Motown sound.
In short, I have a pair of Schaller JBX pickups and a much abused Cort GB24 bass. I've coated the fretboard with CA and buffed to a high gloss, not unlike the neck of a Rickenbacker. I plan to install the pickups in the Rickenbacker positions, add a bass-cut cap to the bridge pickup and get a custom pickguard made up that is 80% of the Cort original and 20% Rickenbacker 4005 (down by the controls). The bass will get the black tuners and bridge off of the Tokai.
I've broken the back of this project but I need to get the neck up and running first.
As for the Tokai, it seems everybody overlooks just how versatile a T-bird is. Yes, you can slam them with a pick and it comes out sounding good. However, fingerstyle on the bridge pickup sounds like any number of modern Jazz bass tones. Turn down the tone on the neck pickup and you have a nice dubby/Motown sound.
1609
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 11, 2015, 01:57:29 PM »What's that...?
I found the picture on Flickr, and the photographer claimed they were TSR2 formers. I don't know what formers should look like, so I cannot comment.
1610
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 11, 2015, 01:23:38 PM »
How.... mysterious.
In the mean time, here's Dee Dee!!
In the mean time, here's Dee Dee!!
1611
Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs / Re: Chroming up black Thunderbird hardware.
« on: August 11, 2015, 01:20:40 PM »
It is now yesterday's tomorrow, God of Thunder! 
I've got the bass in front of me now, and I've replaced the pickguard screws and machine heads with chrome variants. It already looks happier. These basses come with highmass Badass-style bridges, again in black. I've had a 3-pointer on an Epi EB-0 bass, and if I had to pick a favorite from either the 3-pointer or the BBOT, I think I wouldget kicked off this forum, have to think about it for a while...
I've got the bass in front of me now, and I've replaced the pickguard screws and machine heads with chrome variants. It already looks happier. These basses come with highmass Badass-style bridges, again in black. I've had a 3-pointer on an Epi EB-0 bass, and if I had to pick a favorite from either the 3-pointer or the BBOT, I think I would
1612
Fender Basses / Re: Fender Slabs, and what made them tick.
« on: August 11, 2015, 01:13:14 PM »As for the wiring on JE's No1 Slab, the Three knob, he had each coil
Of the pickup wired seperately to Different Outputs to run two Amps.
He was very unhappy with that and tried several times to have it rewired
to stock wiring but it die Not work. I guess that this was the reason aswell
why the Bass Sounded crap. After the Different tries to rewire it
he bought another Slab which led to Frankenstein.
I will have a Chance to Play the Three knob ex JE Slab very soon....
Hi Oliver,
I'm sure I was informed at one point that the 3-knob slab had some sort of primitive active circuitry installed, and was then converted to stereo. Something like a boost or something? Not sure where I read that so ignore/avoid if necessary!
John was such a busy player that I'm not sure the stereo trick would have served him well. The other issue is that the tone control would have had to have been allocated to one side of the stereo circuit. The uneven tone of sending the D-G strings to a bright amp and the E-A strings to a bassy amp would probably not work with John's long runs and cross-string leaps. if the roadie also buggered up the grounding in the circuitry then you would have had all sorts of problems.
I've converted a few basses to work in stereo off of twin 1/4'' jacks before today. A lot of work and a lot of faff, though you do get a nice tone with the two pickups working separately and not loading each other.
1613
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 11, 2015, 12:05:59 PM »
I joined the TSR2 page on FB. Seems like they enjoy a rumour as well.
I'm slowly replacing the black tuners with chrome ones on my Tokai T-bird. It already looks better!
I guess Dee Dee Ramone never used a T-bird?
I'm slowly replacing the black tuners with chrome ones on my Tokai T-bird. It already looks better!
I guess Dee Dee Ramone never used a T-bird?
1614
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 11, 2015, 04:43:10 AM »
Isn't that a Ramones album?
1615
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 11, 2015, 03:02:36 AM »
Hello Highlander!
These are supposedly the TSR2 formers, as recovered at Brooklands. Another piece of the TSR2 puzzle that was officially lost but then skulked back out into the open.
I was under the impression that XR222 was the best of a bad bunch. Visually it is most complete but there is still avionics missing and many cut wires.
As to the famous Foulness image of XR219...
Supposedly a similar quantity or XR219 was removed from Foulness in the late '70s or so, and was disposed of by the much loved Hanningfield Metals. A collector discovered the front fuselage under a tarp and somehow saved it. Given the politics behind TSR2, the nasty chemicals tested on the aircraft on Foulness (radioactive or furiously corrosive) and the fact that Hanningfield had a contract to honour, I find it hard to believe that they would let stuff slip out the back gate. Given the size of the Brooklands cockpit trainer it would be some job to smuggle that sort of thing around.
Wing sections of XR219 did survive into the early '90s and were supposedly saved by the late John Hallett, whose Sea Vixen resides at Solent Sky. The wing sections were subjected to chemical testing, so the Hallett story might also be a myth. I've seen an aerial image of the Foulness ranges from the early '90s, and large panels in anti-flash white are visible, alongside Vulcan parts. From the ground;
These are supposedly the TSR2 formers, as recovered at Brooklands. Another piece of the TSR2 puzzle that was officially lost but then skulked back out into the open.
I was under the impression that XR222 was the best of a bad bunch. Visually it is most complete but there is still avionics missing and many cut wires.
As to the famous Foulness image of XR219...
Supposedly a similar quantity or XR219 was removed from Foulness in the late '70s or so, and was disposed of by the much loved Hanningfield Metals. A collector discovered the front fuselage under a tarp and somehow saved it. Given the politics behind TSR2, the nasty chemicals tested on the aircraft on Foulness (radioactive or furiously corrosive) and the fact that Hanningfield had a contract to honour, I find it hard to believe that they would let stuff slip out the back gate. Given the size of the Brooklands cockpit trainer it would be some job to smuggle that sort of thing around.
Wing sections of XR219 did survive into the early '90s and were supposedly saved by the late John Hallett, whose Sea Vixen resides at Solent Sky. The wing sections were subjected to chemical testing, so the Hallett story might also be a myth. I've seen an aerial image of the Foulness ranges from the early '90s, and large panels in anti-flash white are visible, alongside Vulcan parts. From the ground;
1616
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 10, 2015, 03:01:16 PM »
I'm going to have to go with the Hostess with the Mostest and go with the Shackleton. Eventually....
Had a spin on the Tokai T-bird. The thing is massive. I'd forgotten just how big these things are.
It is far longer than any of my other basses, which creates some issues with storage and transportation. None of my stands like it either. 
The pickguard is bleach white, almost blue against the cream paintwork. I'm going to get it out in the sunshine over the next few weeks where possible, just to give it some colour.
Had a spin on the Tokai T-bird. The thing is massive. I'd forgotten just how big these things are.
It is far longer than any of my other basses, which creates some issues with storage and transportation. None of my stands like it either. The pickguard is bleach white, almost blue against the cream paintwork. I'm going to get it out in the sunshine over the next few weeks where possible, just to give it some colour.
1617
Fender Basses / Re: Fender Slabs, and what made them tick.
« on: August 10, 2015, 05:25:18 AM »I agree about the Isle of Wight film, the bass sound on that one is crap, and I've heard the same thing where John's treble gets audible whenever Roger is near the amp. It's a really comical audio effect on the bass sound when he twirls the mic.
Cheaper than a Leslie. Great to hear Moon's cymbals flying past as well.
Swish swish swish.
1618
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 10, 2015, 04:45:40 AM »
My cream Tokai T-bird has arrived, and I get to play it this evening! I'm thinking of having a custom pickguard made up, with the bird image replaced with either a top-down plan of an Avro Shackleton or a front-on plan view of a TSR-2.
Any other suggestions? Aircraft that fit the relative outline of the bird on the pickguard. All welcome.
Any other suggestions? Aircraft that fit the relative outline of the bird on the pickguard. All welcome.
1619
Gibson Basses / Re: Thunderbird shootout.
« on: August 10, 2015, 03:19:30 AM »
I find the TSR2 endlessly fascinating. A certain tranche of the UK aviation scene like to suggest that the TSR2 was a faultless feat of engineering marvel killed off by greedy politicians, bumbling civil servants, meddling Royals and Johnny Foreigner. I think the truth is probably a bit more complex than that, not helped by the fact that the aircraft was right on the bleeding edge of technology for the time, and that every aspect of the design was innovative in one way or another. I would compare it to the APT trains we briefly developed; lots of innovation and design overkill but generally not well understood by the guys that had to work on them and hard to justify financially. The fact that the F111 was late rubs salt into the wounds, yes, but the decision made sense to go with it, for me. I think people try and simplify it into a 'death of British aviation' narrative, which it almost certainly wasn't. I think the failed attempt to upgrade the Nimrods to the MRA4 platform could work as a similar allegory.
Where TSR2 gets messy, and interesting, for me is when you try and figure out what happened to XR219; the only TSR2 to ever fly. The jigs for TSR2, along with various airframe components and models were very publically, and petulantly, scrapped. The official line for years after was that none of the TSR2s remained, yet a fairly complete airframe appeared out of Cranwell a while later, a less-complete airframe surfaced as well as a procedures trainer, which is now at Newark. Some jigs are, I think, at Brooklands as well though left in the long grass(!). Various other TSR2 parts have appeared over the years from the back of stores and teaching facilities and I recently saw the radar from one at East Fortune airfield here in Scotland. XR219 was, again, publically and theatrically dragged off to the weapons testing facility at Foulness and blown to bits. However, the main fuselage from about the engines forward was removed some time towards the end of the '70s, and supposedly scrapped. It seems to be an open secret, or wild conspiracy theory, that it was in fact saved from the scrappies. I have a couple of names on record as to who might be responsible for this intervention, though it is likely that it didn't happen at all. In reality if it did survive you would be left with a gutted, fragmented cockpit section minus any avionics. However it is a remnant of the only TSR2 to fly, so it would be nice to see it some day if it exists! TSR2 sections remained on Foulness until the early '90s, yet there was clearly a culture of denial even then.
If anybody wants more details then drop me a PM...
Where TSR2 gets messy, and interesting, for me is when you try and figure out what happened to XR219; the only TSR2 to ever fly. The jigs for TSR2, along with various airframe components and models were very publically, and petulantly, scrapped. The official line for years after was that none of the TSR2s remained, yet a fairly complete airframe appeared out of Cranwell a while later, a less-complete airframe surfaced as well as a procedures trainer, which is now at Newark. Some jigs are, I think, at Brooklands as well though left in the long grass(!). Various other TSR2 parts have appeared over the years from the back of stores and teaching facilities and I recently saw the radar from one at East Fortune airfield here in Scotland. XR219 was, again, publically and theatrically dragged off to the weapons testing facility at Foulness and blown to bits. However, the main fuselage from about the engines forward was removed some time towards the end of the '70s, and supposedly scrapped. It seems to be an open secret, or wild conspiracy theory, that it was in fact saved from the scrappies. I have a couple of names on record as to who might be responsible for this intervention, though it is likely that it didn't happen at all. In reality if it did survive you would be left with a gutted, fragmented cockpit section minus any avionics. However it is a remnant of the only TSR2 to fly, so it would be nice to see it some day if it exists! TSR2 sections remained on Foulness until the early '90s, yet there was clearly a culture of denial even then.
If anybody wants more details then drop me a PM...
1620
Fender Basses / Fender Slabs, and what made them tick.
« on: August 08, 2015, 10:24:02 AM »
When I was still on Talkbass, *sniff sniff*, I spoke to John Kallas a couple of times about the 1966 Slab Precisions. He was of the opinion that there was absolutely nothing special about them in terms of circuitry. This flies in the face of John Entwistle's claims, but makes a lot of sense. the Slab I've seen gut shots of has a black fiber bobbin and a grey fiber bobbin on the underside of each pickup half, so clearly they were thrown together from existing parts. I've seen the maple cap on the neck cited as a contributing factor as well, but again I find that hard to believe.
My personal stance is that the players, the strings and the amps changed just as the Slabs appeared. The two major players were Ace Kefford and John Entwistle, and both used Rotosound rounds and cranked the treble. Could they have simply done the exact same thing with stock Precisions with the body contours? I initially hypothesized that Fender, struck with the challenge of making a 'Telecaster bass', used 1 M pots off the Jazzmaster production line to get more top end out of the pickups, but apparently this isn't the case either. Rather, Kefford and Entwistle were making new sonic territory by gunning the treble on tube amps with limited headroom, and the Slabs just happened to be the bass driving this ensemble. Both players were given a wider degree of musical freedom in their respective bands as well. It all comes together nicely...
To bolster my theory, take The Who's gig from the Isle of Wight, 1970. I've seen this cited as an example of how a stock Precision just lacked the bite and grind inherent in the Slab circuitry. Yet, we know that John was running a simple bi-amp setup. I wager that they only mic'd up the 'bass' half of his rig. There are times when Roger Daltrey stands close to John's rig and you can hear the more typical Leeds tone bleeding into the vocal mics, which again backs up my argument. I would need to find an audience bootleg of that gig to reinforce my view, but I wager that any P bass with John's low action and zero relief setup would get the same tone through that rig. The idea of overwound pickups and 'inherent distortion' is a myth!
I don't see Fender winding hotter pickups for a small run of corner-cut designed basses for the limey market. It doesn't make sense to reward us with such a bespoke product if it involves holding up the production line.
All of this is just my opinion, and I would like to hear what everyone else makes of the Slabs.
My personal stance is that the players, the strings and the amps changed just as the Slabs appeared. The two major players were Ace Kefford and John Entwistle, and both used Rotosound rounds and cranked the treble. Could they have simply done the exact same thing with stock Precisions with the body contours? I initially hypothesized that Fender, struck with the challenge of making a 'Telecaster bass', used 1 M pots off the Jazzmaster production line to get more top end out of the pickups, but apparently this isn't the case either. Rather, Kefford and Entwistle were making new sonic territory by gunning the treble on tube amps with limited headroom, and the Slabs just happened to be the bass driving this ensemble. Both players were given a wider degree of musical freedom in their respective bands as well. It all comes together nicely...
To bolster my theory, take The Who's gig from the Isle of Wight, 1970. I've seen this cited as an example of how a stock Precision just lacked the bite and grind inherent in the Slab circuitry. Yet, we know that John was running a simple bi-amp setup. I wager that they only mic'd up the 'bass' half of his rig. There are times when Roger Daltrey stands close to John's rig and you can hear the more typical Leeds tone bleeding into the vocal mics, which again backs up my argument. I would need to find an audience bootleg of that gig to reinforce my view, but I wager that any P bass with John's low action and zero relief setup would get the same tone through that rig. The idea of overwound pickups and 'inherent distortion' is a myth!
I don't see Fender winding hotter pickups for a small run of corner-cut designed basses for the limey market. It doesn't make sense to reward us with such a bespoke product if it involves holding up the production line.
All of this is just my opinion, and I would like to hear what everyone else makes of the Slabs.