The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: copacetic on June 22, 2009, 11:02:01 PM
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Recently I had been asked to gather up some basses for some music programs so I went around to various music stores in the SF Bay Area. Approaching this task I decided to approach the quest with a very open 'mind' with respect to brand. When playing through the Fender selections I just went down the line and found something that surprised me quite frankly. The MIM Fenders came out on top 80% of the time when coming to feel, playbility, balance, weight and dead spots. Even the sound in most cases was totally acceptable. I simply picked the basses up, plugged them in without checking out the various hardware, pickups, headstock decals etc so to keep with my open approach. I had a budget that was not too restrictive to work with but I wanted to just see what would come out in the wash. The result was surprising to me because of course I had preconceived notions that the Japan, USA, custom shop etc would be the overall better instruments. This was not necessarily so at all. It has been years since I really went in a music store and checked out a bunch of basses. I have quite a collection of basses that I have played and kept over the last 45 years and with respect to the Fenders in my collection consisting of a '56, '71 & '73 Precision and a '66 & '71 Jazz, '67 & 78 Mustang and these are all great playing & sounding basses. So I felt I had to mention my surprise and relief that Fender is still capable of making some great instruments and these at prices that will not break the bank. The only upgrade I might suggest would be the pickups if absolutly necessary.
I also recently attended a club date to see Sly & Robbie. When their 1 1/2 hour stunning set(as usual) was over I got talking to Robbie and upon broaching the subject of the jazz bass he had been playing he handed it over to me and it was MIM Standard Jazz bass! He mentioned it it was his current favorite bass and not just for touring. He had been using it in the studio as well. For anyone who knows this guy you know what he is capable of on the instrument.
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As with a lot of us here I have a humble collection of basses and I find similar ironies. My current 2nd in line "go to" gigging bass is a Korean Dean Edge 4 (bolt on neck) that I bought second hand for the equivalent of US$128. Add a brand new pair of EMG Soapbars that I paid US$115 for and I have an amazingly comfortable playable great sounding bass. Makes me much happier to know I can take this bass to places that I would prefer the others never saw.
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On the old Dudepit and on a Dutch forum a lot of guys bought the '50s P. I have one, I love it and it's better than the MIA Jazz I once had.
I want a rosewood board P once and now I'm thinking about a LPB MIM Standard.
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A few years back I had a MIM Precision and it was probably the best P I'd ever played. I did end up modifying it but not because it needed it, just because the thing was so cheap it made a viable platform for the mods I had in mind at the time. Stock - it was just fine as it was. The MIM basses I've played recently are just as good.
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One of the best playing and sounding Jazz basses I ever played was a beat to hell MIM with punk rock stickers all over it. I never dismissed the MIM sticker after that. I have to admit I don't like seeing the truss rod adjustment screw at the headstock end, but that certainly has nothing to do with quality in sound or playability! If I'm ever in the market I'll just have to look at the vintage styles coming from south of the border...
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There are many good, solid instruments out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.
My J is an MIM and it sounds great. It's just a bit on the heavy side at 9 pounds, but manageable. Its E string has so much sustain it sounds like the bass pedal on an organ.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/P8270400.jpg)
And on another forum, a number of guys (Including me) bought the Turser JTB-401 clones of '54 Precisions - great basses for under $200 brand new!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/PB220356.jpg)
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I had a 2002 MIM P. The tone from the stock pickups was fine although not what you would call vintage sounding. I was not impressed with the stock bridge, it looks like a typical Fender bridge but it was lighter and thinner, the saddles kept vibrating around and that affected the tone. I put a Gotoh 201 on and that solved the problem. Also, the large screws that hold the gears in place would loosen sometimes, for no apparent reason. I hope they've improved in the last 7 years.
The Classic MIM series models look nicer to me.
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My 2 cents,
As much as some people may be put off by Fenders' faux "Road Worn (and put away wet)" series, we have a 50s' Precision and a 60s' Jazz that are about the best new Fender basses I've played in years. They both feel great, sound reasonably vintage and were both set up really well out of the box. The P-bass in particular is light and dosn't have any of that rubbery green wood feel that some of the Mexi-standards ( and virtually all of the Squiers ) have. The Am Standard and Deluxes just seem to be trying too hard to be "modern" and the Custon Shop stuff is just too pricey.
We should be getting a few more in, I'll have to compare a few different examples (of the same model) to see if they are consistent. The guitar versions seem to be so far.
Scott
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I agree withe Bass VI's comments on the American Standard and Delux but figure Fender has to try something there to be modern. The Custom Shop pricing is way beyond and somehow getting a bass that has been 'artificially' road worn is somehow strange to me, however it is probably best just to close your eyes and play and see from there how it feels and plays. I get the impression that Bass VI works in a music store and has some first hand experience on a daily basis with respect to taking the instruments out of their factory boxes. I just felt the MIM's were a simply honest bass and somehow reminded me of many years ago going into a music store and picking up a bass that just seemed stright forward and 'honest' and is what it is. I was putting these basses through a Little Mark Bass amp with a 4x10 cabinet(same as my home rig). The Mark Bass set ups are real contenders as well but I did go across the board as mentioned at the top of this thread. There was a custom Shop '64 that was great and reminded me of one of my own but still $2,400. was over the top in my opinion. Another thing I forgot to mention that most of the MIM's I tried had resonance which is what really surprised me. Maybe it is the wood/woods thay use, but I always factor how a bass resonates when unplugged. I kow when it comes to other materials that might not weigh in as much but I do have some an'80's PRS bass and 4 Celinders that have graphite necks and possibly a few other 'modern' materials running through them but they also really resonate unplugged and deliver all the way plugged in.
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I told my local store I was 'thinking' about buying a LPB rosewood board MIM P 'once'. The owner ordered it already cos he thought: 'Chris will buy it and it's good to have it in stock then.'
So now there's a LPB P calling my name and I don't have the money together...
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That Midnight Blue MIM Jazz of mine is a 2000 model, and a very nice bass. I've never found it to be lacking in anything I need...and I rather enjoy the Midnight Blue color, as you don't see it all that often.
It MUST be blue, because if it were purple as my wife and kids keep whispering, then it would be colored like the much despised u of warshington (aka: dawgz), and it would be necessary to dispose of it for a bass of some other color. Fender calls it Midnight Blue, so that's my story too.
It's BLUE, I tells ya!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Jazz_bass_body.jpg)
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That Midnight Blue MIM Jazz of mine is a 2000 model, and a very nice bass. I've never found it to be lacking in anything I need...and I rather enjoy the Midnight Blue color, as you don't see it all that often.
It MUST be blue, because if it were purple as my wife and kids keep whispering, then it would be colored like the much despised u of warshington (aka: dawgz), and it would be necessary to dispose of it for a bass of some other color. Fender calls it Midnight Blue, so that's my story too.
It's BLUE, I tells ya!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Jazz_bass_body.jpg)
Looks purple to me ;D
If you want me to I can pick up some nice maroon spray paint for you next time I'm in College Station :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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it must only look blue at midnight :mrgreen:
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Well, Lightyear, we can both agree it looks better than it would in orange! Gig 'em! (Ph.D., TAMU-1997)
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Rest easy, it's not purple. Midnight Blue was one of the 2000 colors.
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It's blue if you say so! ;)
I really like most of the MIM stuff - a little bit of work and you have nice bass.
And, not an Aggie but I'm trying to convince my 19 year old daughter to transfer there - in Texas the Aggie ring is like a "get a good job fast token" - find one Aggie at a company and you'll find 99 more in the woodwork ;D
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The 'official' Fender color designation during those years was MIdnight Blue. They had a series of colors with the Midnight designation.
My friend has a MIM 1998 Jazz and in his particular bass the tuners & pickups were USA made. He bought it new and from what he recalls they were using USA pups and tuners around then. He opened his up and sure enough it was true. It could very well be that they were using both because of parts stock overages and shortages.
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I picked up the LPB P yesterday!
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I have a sixties RI MIM Jazz in sparkle lipstick lilac with matching headstock and it sounds and plays great. Only quibbles: controls feel wobbly (but do their job without complaints) and I hate having to unscrew the body to access the truss rod for adjustment.
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Uwe, when I saw that you replied in this thread I was afraid that you would have been angry at me for buying a Fender. But no:) BTW: My love for LPB came back after playing your nonrev again. That's not exactly LPB, but I love it.
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I don't even know what LPB stands for! Probably not Les Paul Bass?
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Lake Placid Blue, which eventually turns greenish (must be the algae in the lake).
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Lake Placid Blue, which eventually turns greenish (must be the algae in the lake).
Blue is a VERY dangerous color. I once bought an 85 Chevy pickup off a used car lot in Waco primarily because it was a gorgeous blue. I have no other excuse. To get it out of town required an alternator and battery; to get it home also required a fuel pump that I changed by the side of the road in 100-degree Texas heat.
You ain't lived until you've pearl-dived into the engine compartment of a Chevy pickup to change the fuel pump on a hot Chevy small-block V8!
I like Lake Placid Blue.
"DANGER, Will Robinson!!!!!!!!!!"
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Lake Placid Blue, which eventually turns greenish (must be the algae in the lake).
Don't react to Uwe. Of course he knows!!;) But I love the algae joke:D
Mine has a poly finish, so I guess it will be as blue as it is forever.
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I did not know, seriously. I thought the LPB had the PB referring to "P Bass" and was wondering what the L could mean ... Lame? :-*
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Don't react to Uwe. Of course he knows!!;) But I love the algae joke:D
Mine has a poly finish, so I guess it will be as blue as it is forever.
We have to react to him, he needs to be able to live up to the title I gave him. You don't want to frustrate his ambitions.
I don't know if the poly will change color or not, it may have more to do with UV resistance of the color coat.
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I think it's mostly the clear coat which yellows. On my EB3 is some nice cherry underneath a darker coating. But the coloured finish underneath will darken too. But think Gibson: Blue lacquer with yellow clear coating = Green.
At this shop they also had a nice CS Fender Strat with a greenish guard and a yellowed LPB.
@ Uwe: Okay, some Fender things: LPB = Lake Placid Blue. Think your nonrev and think Steve Harris. CAR = Candy Apple Red. Think Duck Dunn.
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As a mainly Gibson player of course I bully Fender players. So thanks for the Lame P Bass, Uwe! ;D
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I think it's mostly the clear coat which yellows. On my EB3 is some nice cherry underneath a darker coating. But the coloured finish underneath will darken too. But think Gibson: Blue lacquer with yellow clear coating = Green.
You may very well be right about it being the clear coat. Either way, I believe the problem has to do with UV resistance, and AFAIK that's at least partially independent of whether the finish is nitro or poly.
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Solvent based poly will yellow pretty quick. The newer water bourne finishes tend not yellow or will yellow more slowly. Catalyzed finishes are a different beast as well - they tend to be less prone to yellow and are also pretty bullet proof.
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I bought my first MIM (a black J-Bass) in 1992, the first year of production. I considered it to be an excellent value at $260 new, even with some glaring flaws in the finish. I've gotten a few others since then, including a 1998 Deluxe P-Bass Special (used to be called a California P-Bass), which is a cut above the MIM Standards. As Fender raises their prices each year, the MIMs yield less and less bang for the buck. Frankly, I'm more impressed with the SX 70s style J-Basses at around $160 plus shipping.
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I bought a Midnight Wine MIM Jazz 5-string about 18 months ago when a string of used ones came up cheap on eBay. It was a lot better quality than I expected, though I had to shim the neck to get a decent action out of it, and the soldering on the pots was pretty poor. The bridge was much chunkier than usual on Fenders. I didn't like the look of the 5-in-line headstock, but that's not unique to MIMs.
I sold it because I don't have that much use for a 5-string.
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff24/philtrory/Basschat/IMG_0165_s.jpg)
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I tried out a couple MIM basses a couple years back. From what I saw/felt/heard, there wasn't $500 difference between the MIM and the MIA hanging next to it. I'd recommend one in a minute as a good starter bass that can carry you into live gigs.
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As a mainly Gibson player of course I bully Fender players. So thanks for the Lame P Bass, Uwe! ;D
I'm curious what's the diff between LPB and something I'm seeing in Fender descriptions nowadays "Old Lake Placid Blue".
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I'm curious what's the diff between LPB and something I'm seeing in Fender descriptions nowadays "Old Lake Placid Blue".
$100?
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$100?
True wisdom, that! :-X
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At my local store there was my LPB MIM P and a LPB Custom Shop Strat. That one had a green-ish pickguard, more amber (aged) neck and maple board but also the LPB was slightly different from my bass. I think they yellowed the clear finish a bit, so it was slighty (but very, very slightly) greener. I guess that's the old LPB?
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So old LPB is aged to make it look greenish right away. That's in line with Fender's ideas on relicing and wear.
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Yeah, I think every brand does it. Gibson with some bursts and 'unburst', Fender also with colours like Vintage White which is just yellowed Olympic White or something I guess? Newer Gibson Birds where Yellow-ish too.
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For the most part I have found the MIMs functional but lacking a certain something. Not to say there are not some really good ones out there. I played a Road Worn an while ago and was so impressed I ordered a RW neck for my 2009 MIA Jazz. Best thing that ever happened to that bass I love the RW neck !