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Author Topic: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup  (Read 12311 times)

vates

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The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« on: January 02, 2013, 04:22:38 AM »
First of all: Happy New 2013 Year to all of you, dear forumites!

Well, the idea of T-Bird II build haunts me for the last few years already.
One of the unsolved questions is the issue of pickup placing on original '63-'65 Thunderbird II basses. Some pictures show it exactly close to the central pickguard screw (i.e. the pickup chrome frame upper right angle is placed right next to that screw), other show it an inch or more closer to the bridge.

So where is the truth?


One more thing: how does the pickup placing on original TBrids II relate to the neck pickup placement of modern TBirds IV?

Many thanks in advance!

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uwe

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 05:43:33 AM »
3 1/4" from the fretboard to the side of the neck pup on the sixties ones, 3" on the Bicentennials, 2 1/2" on the post 87 ones. It crept forward over time. I just measured it on all three (and on various specimens to be on the safe side), funny it has never occurred to me before, I though they were by and large in the same position. So your question was a good one.   :)

It (partly) explains why modern Birds have a bit more more oooomph and older ones a bit more roarrr.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 05:48:53 AM by uwe »
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dadagoboi

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 05:55:06 AM »
On both of my 64s (a II and a IV): from the center of the 12th fret to the centerline of the pickup, 10 7/8" (277mm).

...As far as a 'modern' Thunderbird placement, I'm both ignorant and apathetic, don't know and don't care.  "Sweet spot" is determined by the characteristics/design of a pickup.  About the only similarities with original and modern pickups is 2 magnets and 2 coils, differences are alnico vs ceramic, short vs tall, thin wire vs fat, number of winds and metal vs plastic cases.  All of those things make the pickups very different sounding.  Not saying one design is "better" than the other, just different.  You can guess which one is cheaper to make.
  
On my '77 it's around 10 5/8" 12th fret to centerline.  Those are REALLY different design pickups.  I wouldn't worry about where the pickguard holes seem to be.  Critical distance is the one relating to the neck.
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godofthunder

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 06:16:02 AM »
 One reason I am not a big fan of the modern Thunderbird is the neck pickup placement. 3 1/4" from the base of the neck to the front edge of the pickup is the optimum location at least for me.
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vates

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 06:34:06 AM »
Thank you very much for quick and very informative responses.
However, I still need some clarifications, if you don't mind:


Quote from: uwe on January 02, 2013, 05:43:33 AM
3 1/4" from the fretboard to the side of the neck pup on the sixties ones, 3" on the Bicentennials, 2 1/2" on the post 87 ones.

Thank you! Since we're on the same side of the pond, could you please give me the exact measure in millimeters as well? Also, do I understand it correct that you measured from the actual end of the fretboard (wood tip), not the metal wire of the 20th fret? I guess the length of a wooden tip beyond the 20th fret may vary on different birds...

Quote from: dadagoboi on January 02, 2013, 05:55:06 AM
On both of my 64s (a II and a IV): from the center of the 12th fret to the centerline of the pickup, 10 7/8" (277mm).

Thank you very much! Do you mean the physical center of the 12th fret (where dot markers are placed) or do you mean the wire of the 12th fret , i.e the actual 1/2 of the scale?
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dadagoboi

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 09:51:07 AM »
Quote from: vates on January 02, 2013, 06:34:06 AM
Thank you very much for quick and very informative responses.

Do you mean the physical center of the 12th fret (where dot markers are placed) or do you mean the wire of the 12th fret , i.e the actual 1/2 of the scale?

The centerline of the 12th fret wire.
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vates

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 03:23:39 AM »
Thank you, you are most helpful!

So, considering sixties T-birds were 34 3/8" (34.375") scale, 10 7/8" (10.875") shall be 31.636% of the scale length. Which means that with modern 34" scale that measure from the 1/2 point of the scale to the pickup's center line shall turn into 10.756".
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dadagoboi

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 08:20:57 AM »
Quote from: vates on January 03, 2013, 03:23:39 AM
Thank you, you are most helpful!

So, considering sixties T-birds were 34 3/8" (34.375") scale, 10 7/8" (10.875") shall be 31.636% of the scale length. Which means that with modern 34" scale that measure from the 1/2 point of the scale to the pickup's center line shall turn into 10.756".

definitely close enough for Rock and Roll!
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Dave W

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 09:32:23 AM »
I wonder, are the 60s T-birds really 34 3/8" scale length? I ask because Gibson (unlike everyone else) used an estimated compensated scale length in its guitar specs rather than the exact uncompensated scale length of 2x the nut-to-12th-fret distance. For example, guitars listed as 24 3/4" scale are actually 24 7/16" to 24 9/16" depending on the year, and the several EB-0Ls I've measured were 34" despite being listed as 34 1/2". The regular EB-0s I've measured were all 30 1/8" despite being listed as 30 1/2".

Quote from: dadagoboi on January 03, 2013, 08:20:57 AM
definitely close enough for Rock and Roll!

Agreed. I'm just asking whether the old ones really are longer.
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dadagoboi

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 10:10:33 AM »
Quote from: Dave W on January 03, 2013, 09:32:23 AM
I wonder, are the 60s T-birds really 34 3/8" scale length? I ask because Gibson (unlike everyone else) used an estimated compensated scale length in its guitar specs rather than the exact uncompensated scale length of 2x the nut-to-12th-fret distance. For example, guitars listed as 24 3/4" scale are actually 24 7/16" to 24 9/16" depending on the year, and the several EB-0Ls I've measured were 34" despite being listed as 34 1/2". The regular EB-0s I've measured were all 30 1/8" despite being listed as 30 1/2".

Agreed. I'm just asking whether the old ones really are longer.

On my '64 TBirds distance from front of the nut to 12th fret centerline is 16 15/16 inches.  The same as Fender, Hamer, Warmoth, Vox and Epiphone (both Embassy and Explorer) 34 inch necks I just checked.  So it's 34 inch scale.

Gibson mislocated the bridge.  To properly intonate a '60s bird the bridge has to be moved closer to the neck, which is what a Badbird does.
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godofthunder

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 11:16:31 AM »
 :)
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vates

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 02:18:40 PM »
Brilliant! So I need an absolute value after all...

Dear uwe, could you please answer this question?

Quote from: vates on January 02, 2013, 06:34:06 AM
Thank you! Since we're on the same side of the pond, could you please give me the exact measure in millimeters as well? Also, do I understand it correct that you measured from the actual end of the fretboard (wood tip), not the metal wire of the 20th fret? I guess the length of a wooden tip beyond the 20th fret may vary on different birds...

...so the more actual measure will be from the metal wire of the 20th fret. could you please check this out? Vielen Dank im Voraus!

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uwe

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 06:07:53 PM »
My dear metrical friend, stuck like I am among imperial measurement savages, I will dutifully centimeterize tomorrow when I'm back in the office.
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Dave W

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 06:28:23 PM »
Quote from: dadagoboi on January 03, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
On my '64 TBirds distance from front of the nut to 12th fret centerline is 16 15/16 inches.  The same as Fender, Hamer, Warmoth, Vox and Epiphone (both Embassy and Explorer) 34 inch necks I just checked.  So it's 34 inch scale.

Gibson mislocated the bridge.  To properly intonate a '60s bird the bridge has to be moved closer to the neck, which is what a Badbird does.

Thanks, Carlo, that confirms my suspicions.
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vates

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Re: The placing of Thunderbird II pickup
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 11:10:50 PM »
Quote from: uwe on January 03, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
My dear metrical friend, stuck like I am among imperial measurement savages, I will dutifully centimeterize tomorrow when I'm back in the office.

uwe, you remind me Skipper a bit when you say so :)



actually the accents in my numerous questions shifted to the issue of measure from the presumably constant 20th fret, not the presumably various wooden tips of necks' bases. thank you
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