More on the Gibson raid

[Dave W]

My apologies for making a joke that took us too far off topic.

Back to Gibson.

[Bionic-Joe]

No problem...It's just that people on the left don't seem to agree with people on the right and vice versa. Music binds us together whether it's in the U.S. or elsewhere.

[Freuds_Cat]

I dont disagree with your sentiments Baz but unfortunately the topic itself does venture into the grey world of bureaucracy/politics. 

[uwe]

Meanwhile, liebe Amerikaner, would you please relearn the art of compromise and that obviously strangely alien concept to you that a functioning democracy has also something to do with working together? 

Just saying. 

[Dave W]

The Gibson raid does bring up political considerations as part of the story, especially since Henry has made an issue of it. Aside from that context, let's please leave all other political comments out of this thread.

[the mojo hobo]

Henry J writing in the Huffington post that the Lacey Act could be made better and claiming the real reason for the raid was that "the U.S. government alleges that the wood was imported in violation of an Indian export restriction designed to keep wood finishing work in India. To make matters worse, although the Indian government certified that the wood was properly and legally exported under this law, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service substituted its own opinion and reinterpreted Indian law. Its analysis suggested that if Gibson would just finish its fingerboards using Indian labor rather than Tennessee craftsman, there would be no issue. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henry-juszkiewicz/gibson-guitars-lacey-act_b_1071770.html

[uwe]

Unless I see a Legal Opinion from a reputed Indian law firm knowing all the facts and stating that it was unequivocally legal to import the wood under Indian law and that the US authorities' view is false, Henry is just making an assertion here. Such a legal opinion costs about 20.000 US-Dollars, 50.000 US-Dollars with the most expensive Indian law firm, so I wonder why Gibson hasn't produced it yet giben the massive implications this affair has on their image. It would also help them get their wood back quickly.

It doesn't matter why India prohibits the export of certain unfinished wood - if they want to retain certain labor in their country and let certain woods out only if Indian laborers have worked on them before, then that is their legitimate, albeit protectionist decision and a company importing wood from there has to accept it. Gibson cannot put itself above Indian lawmakers. Is Henry implying that it would be ok to break Indian law if it only had non-conversationist aims and that Gibson has a choice in which foreign laws to observe and which not?  

[the mojo hobo]

But he said:

"the Indian government certified that the wood was properly and legally exported under this law"

[Psycho Bass Guy]

That's a new twist from him. Sounds like he's been reading the comments here and is now trying to amend his official position to, 'It was OK for me to break the Indian law because they said I could.'

[uwe]

Wasn't there an issue with mislabelling ("clerical error")? I would expect "the Indian government" to reconfirm their past statement today if indeed everything was unmanipulated then and the facts readily at hand. But Henry is always mentioning the past statements only. If an Indian authority upheld today that the export was ok under their laws, I don't believe there would be an issue under the Lacey Act. Of course, as a litigator, I read statements like Henry's with a professionally perverted view ("what is he not saying?"), but to me it looks like he is writhing around the core issue.

If I'm wrong, so much the better. I'm not on a vendetta against either the man or his company. This year he gave me many nice little new basses as a present.

[SGD Lutherie]

Henry keeps talking about Indian wood. Gibson was raided because of accusations that they smuggled gray market wood from Madagascar, not India!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department

[Dave W]

Henry keeps talking about Indian wood. Gibson was raided because of accusations that they smuggled gray market wood from Madagascar, not India!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/08/31/140090116/why-gibson-guitar-was-raided-by-the-justice-department

That article is wrong. The raid this year was about Indian wood. The affidavit that led to the raid is a matter of public record.

The raid a couple of years ago was about wood from Madagascar.

[Dave W]

But he said:

"the Indian government certified that the wood was properly and legally exported under this law"

He says this at every opportunity. It's a deliberate attempt to mislead.

The Indian government approved the export because it was mislabeled as a finished product, which would be legal to export. In fact, it was raw material -- Indian rosewood and ebony which had been cut into rough sawn blanks. That apparently makes it illegal to export.

No Indian government official has come forward to say that the government considers rough sawn blanks to be finished product.

The law could certainly stand to be clarified, but I doubt this will help Gibson.