Which EB for me?

[TBird1958]

All right,

 A little help here for a potential short scale newbie.......I can't help but LOVE Andy Fraser's tone on that Free clip in our Video thread. I'd like to know what model he's playing........Any possible modern day substitutes? Epi, Tokai, Greco that would do? It's not like I'd ever play it out with my band, just for around the house I think, Thanks Guys      

[chromium]

That's a great clip.  His bass is an early EB-3 (63-ish, I think) with the PG removed.  I have a 68/69 that can do that same type of sound on varitone position 3 (choked mud w/bridge pickup), tone rolled off a bit.  Nice and punchy, and great for fingerstyle playing down by the bridge like he was doing in Mr. Big.

...or you can dial up the raunchiness a bit:



I haven't had experience with modern equivalents, but the Epi Elitist EB-3 (the Japanese-made, short scale version) might get you in the ballbark.  I seem to recall others saying those were pretty close in tone to the old EB-3s.  You can still find unbroken 67-69 pre-slothead EB-3s in the low-mid 1K range every now and then.

[godofthunder]

 Was that Allen Woody ?

[godofthunder]

 If thats Allen he is using a mid 70's EB 3 in the clip, these can still be had for bargain prices.

[Barklessdog]

the pink SG Reissue silly!

[chromium]

the pink SG Reissue silly!

You could christen it "Ms. Pinky"!   

[OldManC]

I'm going to be an opposing view and recommend you find an EB0L, EB3L, EB4, or an SB350/450. I've found that I love playing my long scale EBs. They're very ergonomic, so the shoulder trouble I tend to get when playing my birds is never a problem with the EBs (granted, I can't play a bass hiked up to my armpits, so that's part of my problem as well, but the EB still hangs more comfortably than the Birds at whatever level it's hung). Another added benefit is that they look cool as hell and at this point probably look a little more 'anti-establishment' than even a Thunderbird does, seeing as they've been so popular over the last 20 years.



You can mod them accordingly, too:



I have two chrome pickups and a (Warwick) bridge out of a late 90's LP that are going in this at some point. With the maple neck, it'll basically be a Fenderbird, so I'm sure it'll sound great. I plan on painting it arctic white and keeping some sort of black pick guard on it as well.



Another great platform for modding, even though it sounds great just the way it is. These almost always need a new bridge, but that's no big deal.

[TBird1958]

 So, no real love for any Epi version? I was hoping to get away with spending a little less.
This has a good $$$ on it, Orville, anyone? this one makes me feel weak!

  http://cgi.ebay.com/GIBSON-ORVILLE-EB-3-SG-BASS-1995-MIJ_W0QQitemZ230245225661QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[ampang]

Great sound from that maple necked shifted mudbucker 70s eb3!

 I own a 78 EB3 and I love its sound.
I'm always after a deep and fat and dark "dubby" bass sound and I can get plenty of it from varitone pos 1 (free mud, methinks), 4 (mud + notch filter, compacting a bit the sound with tone rolled off or adding some bite if more open) and 3 (mud+bridge pickup adding a bit of edge to the attack).
Bridge pickup alone is not bad at all...i'd dare to say even a little bit fenderjazzish if you play by the bridge.

One thing that sometimes I keep on wondering is about the difference in pure mudbucker sound for 60's all mahogany EBs vs. the seventies maple necked ones. A question for someone that owns both kinds of EB basses and can hear them on the exact same system.
How much ultralows (percentage..if it makes any sense) impact got lost in transitionin from a 60 EB to a 70 EB?

[godofthunder]

 Mark if you are looking to get off cheap the Epi EB 3 is really nice for the $ They come in black, cherry or white, the white is rare but it looks sooooooooooooooooooo cool The bass is long scale. I had one once and put a 60's mudbucker it it and it sounded fantastic. http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-EB3-Wine-Red_W0QQitemZ140227019384QQcmdZViewItem

[uwe]

I've just played

a 63 EB-0F,
a 69/70 EB-3 Slothead,
my 72 EB-U (a maple neck seventies EB-0 with added RD Standard pup)
a 03 Epi Elitist EB-3 and
a 05 Gibson SG-RI

side by side - all with flatwounds except for the Epi. There is not that much difference in the really deep bass they provide, but your ear is fooled when listening to a sixties mudbucker by the over-abundance of deep mids and total lack of treble plus  - with the Slothead - the total lack of high mids too. It sounds deeper than it is. In my view/ear, you could approximate that Andy Fraser sound with all of the basses above (using the minibucker on the Slothead, because just the mudbucker would be too deep) - close enough for any Free tribute band.  Some characteristics (using just the mudbucker except where indicated otherwise):

63 EB-0F (on board distortion not used): indirect signal with lots of midrange and traces of treble, fundamental not overpowering, throaty and overdriven), second loudest signal of all

69/70 EB-3 Slothead: indirect, woofy signal, fundamentals overpower everything else, overdriven, but the lack of treble AND high mids makes it sound less throaty than the 63 EB-0F, loudest signal of all, imagine an octave divider with the original signal turned down and just the octaved signal audible (also gives you a good idea of how indirect it sounds), if you use varitone position 2 with just the minibucker you still have a sensible amount of bass though lack of deep mids makes signal more bony, positions 3 and 4 add more mids, but cut bass beyond sensible use

72 EB-U: neither the bass nor the mid frequencies overpower the treble, the mids are no less prominent than either the bass or the treble, but not as throaty/overdriven as on earlier models, bit Ric'ish in character, while there is treble, glistening presence is missing, signal more direct than the sixties EBs, but lower output  

03 Epi Elitist EB-3: a mix between the 63 0F and the 72 EB-U really, just a touch more well- behaved and even-sounding, but not boring, output higher than the 72 Gibson model, but less than the sixties

2005 Gibson SG-RI: warm mellow even signal, more direct than the sixties and seventies Gibsons, less overdrive, output higher than Epi and EB-U, most reponsive bass of them all

[Barklessdog]

2005 Gibson SG-RI: warm mellow even signal, more direct than the sixties and seventies Gibsons, less overdrive, output higher than Epi and EB-U, most reponsive bass of them all

Pitty, there was a maple top one yesterday, on Ebay with BIN of $595 new!

[gweimer]

Ouch.   I knew I shouldn't have looked in here.  I'm still thinking I should get one of those someday.

[Barklessdog]

For the price they are selling them, we all should!

[uwe]

"I'm going to be an opposing view and recommend you find an EB0L, EB3L, EB4, or an SB350/450. I've found that I love playing my long scale EBs. They're very ergonomic, so the shoulder trouble I tend to get when playing my birds is never a problem with the EBs (granted, I can't play a bass hiked up to my armpits, so that's part of my problem as well, but the EB still hangs more comfortably than the Birds at whatever level it's hung). Another added benefit is that they look cool as hell and at this point probably look a little more 'anti-establishment' than even a Thunderbird does, seeing as they've been so popular over the last 20 years."

Long scale EBs have a quality of their own, I really like my gunshot EB-0L, my SG-Z with the mudbucker, my EB-4 and the long scale SBs (though I favor the ergonomics of a TBird which suits me perfectly and comfortably while I find long scale SG body basses shaky affairs), but I think that a great deal of the charm of that Jack Bruce/Andy Fraser/Felix Pappalardi EB sound is down to the short scale. The lesser string tension and narrower fret spacing affects your playing - you tend to play more, also because a single deep note on a shortie doesn't quite have the authority of a long scale bass nor the full harmonics, and you tend to bend more. An abundance of notes and bending is pretty much key to the sounds of these players (also with early Jim Lea when he still played short scale).  

Imagewise, I have doubts though whether a short scale SG body bass will make for an as  striking appearance with Fräulein Rommel as a TBird. Mark looks tall - certainly for a woman!   - and that TBird in his hands together with the drag look will forever echo the late Arthur "Killer" Kane of New York Dolls fame with me. With a stubby little EB I have a hard time getting the mental picture right unless Mark goes through an image change ... Thought about growing a moustache/beard and a fizzled out mullet, Mark?