Author Topic: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26  (Read 233 times)

westen44

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2017, 10:51:47 AM »
I totally agree.  Synchronizing with the drummer is critical.  Now that i can look back all these years later, I realize I was around some unusually good drummers while I was learning to play.  Most of them played behind the beat and I really got used to that.  It did become something I preferred as time went on, though.  Of course later when I was around drummers who didn't play that way, I made the necessary adjustments (but didn't like it as much.)

uwe

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2017, 11:58:12 AM »
It's a matter of personal preference, what kind of person you are and what music you play, there is no good and bad. If you are in a reggae band, you have to play behind the beat or it sounds like white-boy new wave reggae (The Police or Fischer-Z).

I once had a drummer in the band who was Bonham'esque behind the beat all the time. The guitarist loved him for it, but it drove me - weaned on Ian Paice's ever-so-slightly-ahead-of-the-beat swing - absolutely nuts. What sounded heavy to the others, sounded clumsy to me and I didn't like what it did to my bass playing either. And in my ears, Bonham/Jones as a rhythm section never - thanks Alan! -"drove the bus" like Paice/Glover (or Ward/Butler!) did. There was just more elegance in Purple's engine room, a track like Highway Star is fast, but there is nothing rushed or ham-fisted about it, it glides along. In contrast, when Zep play something a little faster like Rock'n'Roll or Immigrant Song, they invariably stomp (which a lot of people find appealing because it is so primal). Even a headbang number like Smoke On The Water never stomps.

But for a reason I never understood - Zep's enduring popularity must have something to do with it, the advent of disco in the late 70ies might have played a role too - behind the beat drumming became ever more popular in harder music from the 80ies onwards. A drummer once told me: "It's not that difficult to credibly ape some of the more overt things Bonham did, but that Paice swing thing is hard to get and you don't hear it that much in today's popular music anymore either, so people are just not used to and influenced by it." Paice says he heard big band music and Buddy Rich to death as a child as his father played in a big band in the 40ies and 50ies.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:24:51 PM by uwe »
It ain't no country until Dave sez it is!

westen44

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2017, 12:38:40 PM »
That makes sense.  One drummer that I used to play with a lot was a John Bonham fanatic.  He would literally not tolerate any criticism of Bonham.  I never got that interested in Led Zeppelin, though.   I can't remember ever even buying one of their albums.  But you had to listen to their music whether you wanted to or not.  It seems like they were on the radio nonstop for years.  But I liked Jimmy Page all right and also what he did with the Yardbirds.  Also, I liked Keith Relf's quirky vocals more than Robert Plant's.  I realize I'm really in the minority on that. 

It's no surprise that the easier way of playing became the most popular.  Needless to say, it's human nature to often take the easy way out.  You don't hear too much complex harmonizing in music anymore, either.  It's hard and takes talent.  So why bother?   The excuse is that that's no longer in style. 

uwe

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2017, 01:54:11 PM »
I like harmony vocals a lot, but they rob you of the identification with that one singer as a listener. Harmony throughout sounds pleasant enough, but I find myself then less gripped by the lyrics, the overall sound takes over in my brain.  :-\

Nevertheless, stuff like this - yes, it's corny, I know - I can be a sucker for:





And as a bass player I'm of course notorious for playing thirds where most other people would play the root or the fifth. Wishbone Ash spoiled me. :mrgreen:

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 02:14:17 PM by uwe »
It ain't no country until Dave sez it is!

westen44

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2017, 03:26:19 PM »
It's doubtful that harmony will come back anytime soon or maybe never.  It was around for a very long time, though.  Maybe they did go overboard with it.  Certainly, the Eagles were masters at it. 

slinkp

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2017, 03:34:15 PM »
Well-executed and well-written harmony vocals are still all over the place, if you go looking.
I have been in love with this band for a few years now:


Roger Waters is similarly smitten apparently, because Jess and Holly from Lucius have found a side gig as his backup singers on the current tour.
https://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2017/07/27/jess-wolfe-and-holly-laessig-of-lucius-on-tour-with-roger-waters

uwe

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2017, 04:02:49 PM »
Well those guys play behind the beat alright!  :mrgreen:
It ain't no country until Dave sez it is!

slinkp

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Re: Saw King Crimson here Oct 26
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2017, 07:04:55 PM »
Yeah they do! Sounds good usually but my one complaint with them, having heard lots of versions of many of their songs, is that they can overdo it and sound draggy.