Author Topic: Hiwatt 4x12 question  (Read 3126 times)

Granny Gremlin

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Hiwatt 4x12 question
« on: May 28, 2016, 05:51:38 AM »
Our drummer is trying to sell off his old guitar rig, and I was wondering if anyone knows if anyone ever copied Hiwatt 4x12s in terms of cosemetics.  I know there are copies of that now, but back in the 80s/90s.  I am veryu skeptical that his cab is an actual Hiwatt but since it is actually rather well-built and pretty accurate cosemetically I am not sure.  The speakers have been changed (2 Marshall-labelled Celestion G12s and 2 black frame ones with no labelling - assuming Eminence until I get a closer look to check the codes (a stupid config 16s and 8s in parallel for 12ish Ohms so I gotta do something about that). 

This thing is largish for a 4x12  (some Marshalls are barely larger than the surface area required to mount the 4 12s) and heavy, which makes me lean to not-copy. Generally solid and the side handles appear to have been changed out (see some hacking around there on the inside).  It does have the right tolex too - that's pretty distinctive.

I suppose pics would have helped; will see about that later today.

If anything it would be later era (black cloth, and when I googled Hiwatt 4x12, I got this pic which is identical to the cab in question (the support post, painted inside and cutout of the back mounting lip on the botom that acts as a sort of port).
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Highlander

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2016, 01:23:58 PM »
The speakers won't matter too much about being odd values as long as you know the final values...

I have a pair of 75W Governors in mine (Marshall slope), with two of the odd value PA speakers that came with it which are 60 w combined...

I have XLR's on the back with the values totalled marked on the cab, for one pair or the other or all four...

Scott has an original, iirc... original speakers were Fanes, iirc...

Pics... :popcorn:
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Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2016, 08:17:31 PM »
Hiwatt cranked out a lot more cabs than amps and for much longer than most people seem to think. The XLR is a "tell" on older 70's models, but they made cabs into the mid 80's which look like, well, Hiwatts but with more universal connection options. Another thing to consider: even with all the numerous name ownership/QC issues aside from using crap wood (which was VERY uncommon in anything before the mid 90's) and cheap speakers, even the most inane of owners could load a wire a cab which met the specs of its ancestors.

Alanko

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 11:42:28 AM »
Has your drummer ever knocked around with a The Who tribute band? I recently saw photos of a Rolling Stones tribute act using all sorts of stuff branded Ampeg... it might even have been on here! The cab could be something else dressed up as Hiwatt for a tribute act.

Granny Gremlin

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 01:50:52 PM »
LOL, no.  Strictly hardcore punk bands for our drummer.  I'll get some pics tonight (I bought yet another 4x12 - a Sunn/early Brit tall style with staggered speakers vs the square Marshall guitar style - today.... but I'll talk about that elsewhere) but I am convinced that it is a debranded later Hiwatt with changed out speakers (makes sense given the punk source).
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 03:32:50 PM by Granny Gremlin »
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Highlander

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
... I recently saw photos of a Rolling Stones tribute act using all sorts of stuff branded Ampeg... it might even have been on here! ...

That was probably Aussie Mark's outfit... ;)
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Granny Gremlin

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 09:30:07 AM »
Here she is:







g









So what makes me think it's a Hiwatt:

- the enlarged handles look like they were originally like these ones (slot cut into the sidewalls):


- Has the vent on the bottom of the rear panel (as in the above pic)

- heavy and solidly made (quality plywood)
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Psycho Bass Guy

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 11:36:08 AM »
That's an old Marshall 4x12; it looks like a smaller version of my 4x15. The grille cloth looks like it has been painted/definitely changed and would have originally been a light wheat color, and the changed handles were originally non-recessed with clear plastic handgrips. Hiwatt tolex is slightly lighter blue with a different texture pattern.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 11:41:50 AM by Psycho Bass Guy »

lowend1

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 02:16:31 PM »
I beg to differ - not a Marshall. This is likely a 70s Hiwatt cab, either an SA4122 or SA4123. Could be very early 80s. First clue is the vented rear baffle. Most 80s and 90s Hiwatt cabs were front-loaded and some had a velcro'd grill frame that was flush with the cab face (I own one) - this one is recessed. Also note the two rivets above the jack plate, which once held the ID badge on. The black levant covering also looks correct, and it appears the piping was once white. Grill cloth has been painted. Handles are retro fitted. Speakers are obviously not original. Cab interior is painted black - as it should be.
Oddly I passed on a cab recently that could  almost be this one's twin, right down to the painted grill, but it had 3 original Fanes and a JBL.
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Granny Gremlin

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 02:35:57 PM »
I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but I've never seen a Marshall with the white piping .... but I don't usually pay much attention to 4x12s.

Guess I'll wait on some tie-breaking opinions
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FrankieTbird

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 07:46:58 PM »
Not a Marshall.  I'm not a Hiwatt expert by any means, but it does look Hiwattish to me.

Granny Gremlin

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 05:15:30 AM »
The complete lack of white piping around the grille (which I don't think is painted, but maybe replaced, which would be consistent with the missing piping) makes it harder to see as a Hiwatt.  What made me think it was a copy at first is the piping on the top; could just be age and abuse, but it's all squished and blackenned - looked like the white rubbed off/was originally painted on There is a pipe, not just a stripe), but knowing them punk kids, maybe perm markered over or just dirty.  Gonna take a closer look at that.



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lowend1

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 08:28:46 AM »
The piping was probably removed - you know that the speakers were out at least once, so the baffle may have been pulled also. I don't think the grill cloth was replaced - I've never seen a cane-style cloth in solid black. Pull a speaker and look at the back side of the cloth - I doubt they would have taken the trouble to paint both sides. If it's original it should be salt-and-pepper. Looking close up at the grill, I think I see the holes where the nameplate would be riveted in.
To my knowledge, nobody but Hiwatt did a vent port at the bottom of the rear baffle.
This is the cab I looked at recently:




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Granny Gremlin

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 05:01:17 AM »
Holy crap, the piping around the grille is there just painted/sharpied black (so maybe the grille was painted vs changed after all.... changing it out seems like too much of an awful pain for some punk kids now that I think about it; probably just took a rattle can to the whole thing).  It was really hard to see - had to feel it to notice.  Guess with the high contrast it doesn't really have to be too prominent when it's white to be seen. 
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godofthunder

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Re: Hiwatt 4x12 question
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2016, 05:25:44 AM »
 Defiantly Hiwatt. The rear port and the rivet positions on the back for the data plate id it as one. Originally loaded with Fanes. I agreed the grill has been spray painted. One of these in nice condition with the original Fanes would bring $1,200-$1,500. I don't see this going for any more than $300-$400 and that would be on a good day.
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