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Gear Discussion Forums => Rickenbacker Basses => Topic started by: Alanko on January 08, 2016, 03:02:31 PM

Title: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 08, 2016, 03:02:31 PM
Greg Lake played a Rickenbacker for a very brief period, in or around 1974. I've only seen a couple of pics of it ever:

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Meddled/Greg_Lake_Rickenbacker_zpsa0jozfsr.jpg)

It seems modded out the gate, with a Jazz bass pickup cover over the bridge, revised control layout and custom pickguard. It looks like a mono 4001, which I think is unusual because it has binding and triangular inlays. Any thoughts?

I saw, and stole, an image recently on an ELP fan page on Facebook. Apparently this pickguard was discovered on a shelf, somewhere in ELP's offices. It looks like Danny O'Brien's work for Tony Zemaitis, and is clearly configured for a Rick neck pickup and a Jazz pickup in the bridge, albeit with the pickup much closer to the bridge than the stock Rick position.

I like the Tarkus inlay!

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Meddled/Greg_Lake_Pickguard_zpsslm2k9qq.jpg)

It looks like the pickguard never made it onto the bass, but it is a nice piece of work!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Rob on January 08, 2016, 07:34:33 PM
Last paragraph.
I thought he hated the bridge Pups in Rics.
http://ladiesofthelake.com/cabinet/anyquestions.html
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 08, 2016, 07:34:46 PM
Hey!  Greg stole my control harness design!!!  :mrgreen:

I made this in 2003 for my old July '73 4001; a friend of mine has the bass now, but I still have that pickguard with the harness on it.  8)

Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Paul Boyer on January 09, 2016, 08:55:37 AM
Rick-O-Sound was an option on deluxe-trim 4001 basses until it was made standard around 1968. So this may have been a '68 or earlier. Wonder where it is now?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 09, 2016, 04:30:05 PM
Hello Paul! Whilst I don't own a Rickenbacker I do own your wonderful and very informative book. Believe it or not I've read it in the bath on many occasions... :mrgreen:

I wonder if Greg still has it, or if ELP's equipment is in storage somewhere. Carl Palmer's steel drumkit must be somewhere!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 10, 2016, 05:00:33 AM
The pic is from Melody Maker Poll Winner concert September 1972. It's the only series of pics I've seen Greg using that bass and I also doubt it was used on any album. He didn't like the bass according to a '74 Guitar Player interview commenting that the neck was prone to moving a lot. He of course used Rotosound round wounds so maybe that was one of those old 4001's that didn't like the tension.
If he didn't like the basses original sound I wonder what he thought of achieving with that mod. Pickups more apart I would guess it sounded round but honky with no mids.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 10, 2016, 05:07:01 AM
Carl Palmer's steel drumkit must be somewhere!

I recall Carl saying it on a video that it was bought by Ringo. :)

About Greg's modded Ric: if he had put another Jazz pickup to it (and to the middle position) he had had a 4002 protype. :)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: ilan on January 10, 2016, 06:14:27 AM
I'll bet that if it were not for the evil cap, he wouldn't have modded his Ric. But who could have guessed that RIC installed a secret, un-switch-off-able bass-cut capacitor in a bass?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Denis on January 10, 2016, 06:25:24 AM
Wow, I've never seen a photo of Lake with a Ric! He must have tried that after the Jazz bass he used for years but before getting his Ripper.
Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 10, 2016, 06:51:20 AM
I'll bet that if it were not for the evil cap, he wouldn't have modded his Ric. But who could have guessed that RIC installed a secret, un-switch-off-able bass-cut capacitor in a bass?

My thoughts too. One might wonder if the cap was still in the circuit and thinning out the Jazz PU? :)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 10, 2016, 07:33:19 PM
...Pickups more apart I would guess it sounded round but honky with no mids.
I can attest, from my experience with Rick basses that have their pickups at the extremes, this is not the case at all.  The 4005WB I had, and with the new 4004L SPC, there is no lack of meaty mids, nor is there any honk to the tone.  :)

Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: patman on January 11, 2016, 06:26:56 AM
I would agree it was probably the cap...

When I first bought my old RIC...$300 at Will's Pawn Shop...it had the CAP

It was useless until I bypassed the Cap...then it roared.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: ilan on January 11, 2016, 07:57:18 AM
with the new 4004L SPC
What's the story behind this bass?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Denis on January 11, 2016, 01:09:33 PM
My '75 still had the cap in place when I bought it a couple of years ago. Had it bypassed and it's a whole different thing now.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 11, 2016, 01:53:41 PM
I can attest, from my experience with Rick basses that have their pickups at the extremes, this is not the case at all.  The 4005WB I had, and with the new 4004L SPC, there is no lack of meaty mids, nor is there any honk to the tone.  :)

Maybe "honky" is a wrong word, I just couldn't describe the sound of two pickups together wide apart anyway else. :)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 11, 2016, 07:08:54 PM
What's the story behind this bass?
Read all about it on the other forum.  :)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: ilan on January 12, 2016, 03:53:29 AM
Oh, okay. Cool trade. Got any sound samples?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Dave W on January 12, 2016, 08:10:07 AM
Read all about it on the other forum.  :)

At RRF? Link? I can't find anything but a reference to you using a Cave pedal with it.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 12, 2016, 02:07:36 PM
The 4004L SPC looks a bit like the mystery 4001 prototype at Rick HQ with dual toasters in the 4005 positions.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/75/be/54/75be54891a087d906eea19b1c1467e62.jpg)

I quite like the 4.7 nF cap in the middle position of a 4003, but not on a solo'd bridge pickup. Minus the cap I find a 4003 sounds like a less together Jazz bass.

Greg Lake wasn't really that keen on the mids! The recording of the band from the 'Mar Y Sol' festival highlights a pretty nasty tone from Greg; all highs and lows and pretty much zero mids. I understand he was after a tone like the low end of Keith's Steinway piano....
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 12, 2016, 06:03:51 PM
Oh, okay. Cool trade. Got any sound samples?
I've been doing some noodling into my Marantz PMD661 but nothing worthy of releasing to the world, yet!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 12, 2016, 06:05:05 PM
At RRF? Link? I can't find anything but a reference to you using a Cave pedal with it.
Search FS; 2030GF, it's all in there.  8)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 12, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
The 4004L SPC looks a bit like the mystery 4001 prototype at Rick HQ with dual toasters in the 4005 positions.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/75/be/54/75be54891a087d906eea19b1c1467e62.jpg)

I quite like the 4.7 nF cap in the middle position of a 4003, but not on a solo'd bridge pickup.
My bass does not have the .0047µF cap, just full on tone from the toaster. And yes, the '67 4001 Experimental bass, along with my old '67 4005WB (both Jetglo) were the inspiration behind the 4004L SPC.  :)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: gearHed289 on January 13, 2016, 09:22:35 AM
Hey!  Greg stole my control harness design!!!  :mrgreen:

I made this in 2003 for my old July '73 4001; a friend of mine has the bass now, but I still have that pickguard with the harness on it.  8)

Mine too! I recently did this layout on my Alembic-ized 4003S. Vol/vol/filter/Q switch.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Dave W on January 13, 2016, 12:03:50 PM
Search FS; 2030GF, it's all in there.  8)

No wonder. I was searching the bass section for 4004L SPC.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: ilan on January 14, 2016, 12:15:29 AM
Jeff, why didn't you want a pickguard?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 14, 2016, 10:21:25 AM
I would have liked that and the control harness, ideally, but I was being practical with my real needs for this bass (it would have required a whole lot more to do such on a 4004, too), and I wasn't really looking for a copy of the 4001S EXP bass, just the essence of it.  Tone was the goal, and the simplified controls stay out of the way.  This bass is for those great roundwound Squire/Lee kinds of sounds so all I really need is the selector switch, although I may eventually replace the volume and tone controls with two volume controls, along with the selector switch, but I am in no hurry to do so (and may never get around to doing that) since the bass sounds great as is.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Dave W on January 14, 2016, 09:36:56 PM
Nice backstory there, Jeff. Pretty close to being a RIC custom shop bass.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 15, 2016, 04:44:53 PM
I don't have a Rick Resource account, and as I don't own a Rick I don't think it would be a good idea to join!

Please can I have the back story on here as well Jeff?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 15, 2016, 07:41:29 PM
Pretty simple story, really.  I had a 2030GF for sale and I was offered something interesting in trade for it.   8)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Dave W on January 15, 2016, 09:53:26 PM
I don't have a Rick Resource account, and as I don't own a Rick I don't think it would be a good idea to join!

Please can I have the back story on here as well Jeff?

No reason you need to own a Rick to join. I don't own any Ricks anymore yet I still go over there on occasion.

Pretty simple story, really.  I had a 2030GF for sale and I was offered something interesting in trade for it.   8)

You're being too modest. You're important enough that Ben did some custom programming for you to make that interesting trade come about.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 21, 2016, 05:53:26 AM
I've never owned a Rick. I was pipped to the post on a daftly cheap (for the UK) minty 4003 in Montezuma brown, a couple of months back. It had the protective film on the pickguard, from memory.  :sad:

I might try and narrow down the period of time Greg Lake was using the Rickenbacker and then see if there are any audience or soundboard recordings for corresponding gigs. I want to hear this bass in action!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Denis on January 21, 2016, 07:47:48 PM
I would bet money Lake tried the Ric in the time period between his Jazz bass and his Ripper.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 21, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
Quote
Why did Salvador Dali cross the road?

Money? (http://pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/0b/6f/00006f0b_medium.jpeg)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 23, 2016, 03:35:18 AM


I might try and narrow down the period of time Greg Lake was using the Rickenbacker and then see if there are any audience or soundboard recordings for corresponding gigs. I want to hear this bass in action!

The Melody Maker Poll Winners gig is one if there happens to be a bootleg of that.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on January 23, 2016, 03:37:40 AM
I would bet money Lake tried the Ric in the time period between his Jazz bass and his Ripper.

Yes, even 'though he still used the Jazz too in 1973. Is "Brain Salad Surgery" Jazz or Ripper?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 23, 2016, 04:12:44 PM
The Melody Maker Poll Winners gig is one if there happens to be a bootleg of that.

There is, apparently, an audience boot of the gig. The Melody Maker Winners gig was at The Oval cricket ground, and was held on the 30th of September 1972. I can find a few bootlegs of the band from around June/July of 1972 when they were conducting a European tour. They also toured Japan that year and there are boots of that, but again I'm pretty sure Greg was playing a Jazz bass for all of those gigs. I cannot find a photo of Greg playing at the Mar Y Sol festival, so I don't know exactly what he used on that gig,but it sounds like the Jazz again.

The other problem with bootlegs is that the sound quality is usually rough, and it is the bass that is generally reproduced the worst.

What bass is on this recording? Your guess is as good as mine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpHSTQWzTg

Here is Genesis's set from The Oval, just to give you an idea of the sound quality to expect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lsjCuy61Fc
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 27, 2016, 04:23:17 PM
Bump!

I tracked down a copy of the Oval gig, on the private torrent site I get all my bootlegs from, where I should have looked in the first place. I'm a bit slow sometimes...  :bored:

I'm having a listen, and whilst the recording isn't great it does capture a bit of the bass tone. It sounds not entirely unlike his Jazz bass, but less brittle and perhaps with a bit more mids content. If people really want to hear it I can upload snippets onto Youtube or something.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 28, 2016, 05:24:07 PM
Cool, that recording of Genesis is from a few months before i saw them for the first time, on April 14, 1973.  8)

Here is the ad I saw that alerted me to go to that show which was their first tour in the US.


Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 29, 2016, 04:06:47 PM
Definitely a fertile time for progressive rock. The full lineup for the Oval concert was Wishbone Ash, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Genesis, Argent , Focus ,Jack Bruce, and Fudd. I've never heard of 'Fudd', but it is an insult in Scots!

Here is my quick edit of the Oval bootleg. A bit of Aquatarkus and some of Pictures at an Exhibition, just where the bass stands out. There is also a rare performance of 'Endless Enigma' on the bootleg that I could upload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzgGzFo8bmI
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 29, 2016, 07:25:50 PM
...Aquatarkus...
A shame the audio quality is not great.  :sad:

I knew a guy back in the mid '70s (while in college at the University of Cincinnati) who was a big Keith Emerson fan; when I met him he was playing the piano in one of the lobbies of the dorm we lived in.  He did a great version of two ELP songs that he called Take A Tarkus, it was Take A Pebble on one hand while playing Tarkus with the other!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on January 30, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
Yeah, it is a fairly standard field recording of the era. I used to have a lot of Pink Floyd bootlegs (which fans prefer to call ROIOs for pedantic reasons) of similar quality. Audience recordings improve rapidly during the '70s, but at the start of the decade you tend to find a lot of monaural recordings with restricted bandwidth, usually of a band playing through a crap-to-nonexistent PA. A lot of times the musicianship shines through, though I have a few Hawkwind bootlegs that basically sound like a wall of mud with drums in the distant background.

Anyway, here is The Endless Enigma from the Oval show. There is some points where the bass is quite prominent, so you get a good feel for the tone. Definitely Greg Lake's classic tone (which makes me think he had the cap removed from the bass, as it is quite comb filter-y) The lows and low mids just seem a bit richer than his Jazz bass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf3ywR5DERA
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 30, 2016, 11:03:34 PM
His bass does sound great in that recording when it can be heard well.  I suppose he could have known what the cap was doing and removed it, but another possibility is is he was soloing the neck toaster; those old ones could have an amazing tone all by themselves, the one in my old '67 4005WB, and the short magnet toaster in my 4004L SPC can get that tone by themselves.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Jeff Scott on January 30, 2016, 11:20:12 PM
What bass is on this recording? Your guess is as good as mine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpHSTQWzTg
My guess is Greg is playing the Rick, it just has that tone that I can get on mine.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on February 18, 2016, 06:10:53 AM
There is that reassuring always-there low-mids and bass response that I associate with a Rick. It must have sounded great in concert for it to be captured on a primitive tape recorder like that.

I don't like Greg's Jazz bass tone.  :o There are parts of the  Mar Y Sol recording where it is so ice-picky that it is unlistenable, in my opinion. I've seen a clip of ELP performing Tarkus in Japan during this period, and Greg is strumming full chords on the bass. With that ultra treble tone it just sounds like noise, especially as the other end of the tone, curtsey of folded-horn cabs, is often lost even on official live recordings.

In fact I've heard too many ELP recordings where Greg is playing bass out of tune or getting lost during Pictures at an Exhibition. I do sometimes wonder if he was the weak link in ELP? As soulful and full as his voice was, he still pushed it beyond its limits onstage. I've also seen the footage of Keith basically teaching Greg parts of Karn Evil note for note. Was he basically just tasked with playing Keith's left hand parts?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: gearHed289 on February 18, 2016, 08:40:57 AM
There is that reassuring always-there low-mids and bass response that I associate with a Rick. It must have sounded great in concert for it to be captured on a primitive tape recorder like that.

I don't like Greg's Jazz bass tone.  :o There are parts of the  Mar Y Sol recording where it is so ice-picky that it is unlistenable, in my opinion. I've seen a clip of ELP performing Tarkus in Japan during this period, and Greg is strumming full chords on the bass. With that ultra treble tone it just sounds like noise, especially as the other end of the tone, curtsey of folded-horn cabs, is often lost even on official live recordings.

In fact I've heard too many ELP recordings where Greg is playing bass out of tune or getting lost during Pictures at an Exhibition. I do sometimes wonder if he was the weak link in ELP? As soulful and full as his voice was, he still pushed it beyond its limits onstage. I've also seen the footage of Keith basically teaching Greg parts of Karn Evil note for note. Was he basically just tasked with playing Keith's left hand parts?

Well, there is the old joke (sorry if it's already been mentioned) "Who was the best bass player in ELP? Keith's left hand". Greg certainly did some cool stuff in the studio. Listened to Trilogy while making dinner the other night.

I heard a boot of him with the Alembic, and it was so tinny, I wondered if the engineer only took the feed from the bridge pickup?
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: gearHed289 on February 18, 2016, 08:47:07 AM
Also, I finally listened to that Brighton clip. Sounds like a Ric to me too. After 15 years of experimentation with different pickup combinations on my 4003S, I've found that the positioning of the neck pickup has a major influence on the sound of those basses, regardless of what you put on there - Hi Gain, Toaster, HB-1, Alembic.... There's a certain "boom" there.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on February 20, 2016, 04:01:50 PM
I added the Brighton clip to demonstrate how rough ELP bootlegs are.  :P It could be the Rickenbacker though. I've never owned a Rick, the closest being various test bed basses with the pickups in similar locations. I feel that Ricks somehow 'cradle' the low frequencies better. It isn't necessarily boomy and undefined, just a totally reassuringly present, consistent low end retention. That is why I prefer the cap on the bridge pickup when you have both pickups on, as it allows both pickups to occupy separate tonal areas.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: uwe on February 24, 2016, 09:09:51 AM
Well, there is the old joke (sorry if it's already been mentioned) "Who was the best bass player in ELP? Keith's left hand". Greg certainly did some cool stuff in the studio. Listened to Trilogy while making dinner the other night.

I heard a boot of him with the Alembic, and it was so tinny, I wondered if the engineer only took the feed from the bridge pickup?

I always find that Lake's heart wasn't really in bass playing (and you can hear it) - he played bass in ELP because someone had to just like Roger Waters played bass in Pink Floyd because someone had to. He wasn't a Chris Squire who relished playing bass or one of the long line of different Jethro Tull bassists who all enjoyed making themselves heard. In interviews today, he even admits that he has lost all interest in playing bass and much prefers playing guitar.

Given the complexity of ELP's music (and the opportunities it gave to a bassist), Lake's bass playing was merely functional, workmanlike, sometimes even pedestrian/listless, nothing more. Mind you, between Emerson's keyboard excesses and Palmer's hypheractive drumming, there wasn't a whole lot of room so that Lake's less than flashy bass playing fitted a purpose. He also had those lead vocal parts to do.

That is not to say that he didn't have the chops of other Prog bass players, just not the artistic drive or hunger. Even Michael Rutherford - not really a dyed in the wool bassist either - was more creative/playful within Genesis. Lake was chiefly the pretty face, romantic and melodic, easily accessible singer within ELP - who also happened to play bass as the music required from time to time (when Keith's left hand was busy wandering off).

And I always found his bass sound and playing cold and heartless as opposed to Chris Squire's which - trebly and even harsh as it sometimes was - was always utterly vibrant and ebullient.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: uwe on February 24, 2016, 09:20:23 AM
"I added the Brighton clip to demonstrate how rough ELP bootlegs are."

Their music wasn't very organic in the first place and did not translate that well to a live environment given the technology of the time.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Denis on February 24, 2016, 06:16:02 PM
I always find that Lake's heart wasn't really in bass playing (and you can hear it) - he played bass in ELP because someone had to just like Roger Waters played bass in Pink Floyd because someone had to. He wasn't a Chris Squire who relished playing bass or one of the long line of different Jethro Tull bassists who all enjoyed making themselves heard. In interviews today, he even admits that he has lost all interest in playing bass and much prefers playing guitar.

Given the complexity of ELP's music (and the opportunities it gave to a bassist), Lake's bass playing was merely functional, workmanlike, sometimes even pedestrian/listless, nothing more. Mind you, between Emerson's keyboard excesses and Palmer's hypheractive drumming, there wasn't a whole lot of room so that Lake's less than flashy bass playing fitted a purpose. He also had those lead vocal parts to do.

That is not to say that he didn't have the chops of other Prog bass players, just not the artistic drive or hunger. Even Michael Rutherford - not really a dyed in the wool bassist either - was more creative/playful within Genesis. Lake was chiefly the pretty face, romantic and melodic, easily accessible singer within ELP - who also happened to play bass as the music required from time to time (when Keith's left hand was busy wandering off).

And I always found his bass sound and playing cold and heartless as opposed to Chris Squire's which - trebly and even harsh as it sometimes was - was always utterly vibrant and ebullient.

LIES! Philistine! I'm reporting this to a moderator! Or one of the other moderators!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Dave W on February 24, 2016, 08:56:16 PM
LIES! Philistine! I'm reporting this to a moderator! Or one of the other moderators!

 :mrgreen:

Proggie rumble!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on February 25, 2016, 05:38:35 AM
And I always found his bass sound and playing cold and heartless as opposed to Chris Squire's which - trebly and even harsh as it sometimes was - was always utterly vibrant and ebullient.

Lake brought that tone with him from the King Crimson days. Credit where it is due, he had a really clear Jazz bass tone even in 1969, whereas Noel Redding et al had to contend with a muddy, ill-defined rumble with just a hint of that mid-scooped tone we all know and hate love.

Chris Squire played more like a boxer; striking out or falling back, locking in with the drummer or striding across the beat. There is personality to Chris's playing, whereas Greg just doesn't seem ever lock in with either Keith or Carl in the same way. He might have had a fast pick technique, but it certainly isn't as clean or precise as Dave Pegg's playing when Fairport Convention broke out those fast reels. I think ELP almost fell for their own myth; that they were three brilliant, peerless musicians who could phone in music and musicianship that lesser mortals had to work hard for. I think they lost their common scope or purpose pretty early on, as even Tarkus was something of a turf war between Greg's simple pop and rock sensibilities and Keith's endless piano variations and thru-composition.

Emerson Wetton and Palmer would have been a good band.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: nofi on February 25, 2016, 07:29:36 AM
i liked greg's tone in king crimson and the first elp album. i saw the band in 1969 and he indeed was playing a jazz bass. didn't pay much attention to his technique as i was too busy watching emerson stick daggers in his keyboards. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on February 25, 2016, 08:44:48 AM
I think he was using Hiwatts back then, and still kept both covers on the bass. Probably an early Rotosound user.  ???
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: uwe on February 29, 2016, 09:20:57 AM
"Chris Squire played more like a boxer; striking out or falling back, locking in with the drummer or striding across the beat."

Wow, Alan, perfect description! And actually a bass playing concept I like myself.  :)

All of ELP was a bit heartless, that is what made them so obnoxious sometimes. But both Emerson's keyboard playing and Palmer's drumming had some public school OTT tongue in cheek irony to it - testing how much they could overdo it all and still get away with it. Lake's bass playing - not his singing - was expressionless in comparison. I sometimes wonder whether he even liked ELP's music - he certainly didn't seem to like the other two as people and vice versa.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on March 17, 2016, 03:50:58 PM
"Chris Squire played more like a boxer; striking out or falling back, locking in with the drummer or striding across the beat."

Wow, Alan, perfect description! And actually a bass playing concept I like myself.  :)

Thanks!

Oddly with the death of Keith Emerson I've read some glowing appraisals of Greg's bass skills on other fora, with some commenting on the warmth and character in his playing.  ???

Anyway, RIP Keith!
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Pekka on March 18, 2016, 03:21:57 AM
Lake brought that tone with him from the King Crimson days.



He might have contributed to the tone of his replacement bassist on "In The Wake Of Poseidon" as Peter Giles sound is almost the same as Lake's on "In The Court". Funny that Giles used a 4001S with both Giles, Giles & Fripp and McDonald & Giles but used a Jazz on the Crimso album.
(http://lossless-galaxy.ru/uploads/posts/2010-10/1286975926_kc70-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on March 18, 2016, 11:14:33 AM
Giles mimed with a 4001s for KC's odd appearance on Top of the Pops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8t4lYNjS0Y
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Alanko on December 08, 2016, 05:17:12 AM
Saddened to learn of the passing of Greg Lake. The worst reason to 'bump' a thread given the circumstances. RIP.
Title: Re: Greg Lake's modded Rickenbacker
Post by: Denis on December 08, 2016, 06:19:46 AM
Agreed. He was always one of my favorite musicians in any capacity.