The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: drbassman on April 18, 2013, 05:11:50 AM
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I thought it would be fun to start a new thread on these incoming basses. The guys at the HOG said they played them at NAMM and really liked them. Made in Korea, the list of $1599 should yield a street price of around $1100. Not too bad. It sure is an accurate looking reissue, that's for sure. The big question in the equation is the Guild Bi-Sonic pup. No info or specs available on it. It could be good, it could be not so good! The web site also says with case, so that's a nice touch too.
I happen to have two Darkstars that could help this one if needed! ;)
I always liked the Rivoli RI from Epi, but the pups were real dogs IIRC.
Say, there is a nice little video of a guy playing the Starfire. Very mellow, sweet sound he's getting out of it.
(http://media.fmicdirect.com/guild/images/products/guitars/3792400866_frt_wmd_001.png)
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I played one at the Messe, but it was very loud on the Fender booth and the amp was a Bronco, on which I couldn't turn off the fuzz.... I hate too much controls and knobs;) Bass looks and feels very good. I ordered one for a review. I know how Darkstars look and I will screw the pickup out to check;)
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According to the thread on these when they were announced at NAMM, the pickups are reproductions of the original Bi-sonics. I doubt they'll publish any detailed specs.
Street price is about twice as much as the Korean DeArmond Starfires of about 15 years ago. Considering inflation and since these are closer to the originals and come with a case, sounds about right.
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I played one at the Messe, but it was very loud on the Fender booth and the amp was a Bronco, on which I couldn't turn off the fuzz.... I hate too much controls and knobs;) Bass looks and feels very good. I ordered one for a review. I know how Darkstars look and I will screw the pickup out to check;)
That would be cool to see!
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According to the thread on these when they were announced at NAMM, the pickups are reproductions of the original Bi-sonics. I doubt they'll publish any detailed specs.
Street price is about twice as much as the Korean DeArmond Starfires of about 15 years ago. Considering inflation and since these are closer to the originals and come with a case, sounds about right.
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the DeArmands. Hope this one is better. At least the top wood, bridge, tuners, knobs and pickup look like the old ones! Performance will be where the rubber meets the road.
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I saw the guitar version of the Starfire reissues at the HOG and they are beautiful and very faithful reproductions. Fender did these right IMHO.
Also saw the bass online already on eBay.
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I sure would like a chance to play one of the basses. It would be nice if a brick-and-mortar store around here would stock one.
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me too although i am still on the fence with the pickup placement. looks like a MM spot to me. IMO it should be right in the middle or have 2 which is what i would want.. hopefully this will lead to a m85 in the future. That is a bass i have always lusted after though never actually played one....
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I still don't have my review example.
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Yep, I'm thinking a Starfire is in my future. That's the only thing holding me back from the MIJ Bass VI.
And, an M85 would sell like hotcakes, IMO!
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Here's a nice video of someone playing a new Starfire reissue. Sounds great. He returned the bass though. Fit and finish were slightly lacking. Crooked tuners, a strange finish flaw on the side of the neck and an off center center stripe were pointed out in the review and discussion on the other forum. Here's the link:
http://www.johnbiscuti.net/2013/04/25/2013-guild-starfire-bass/
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Here's a nice video of someone playing a new Starfire reissue. Sounds great. He returned the bass though. Fit and finish were slightly lacking. Crooked tuners, a strange finish flaw on the side of the neck and an off center center stripe were pointed out in the review and discussion on the other forum. Here's the link:
http://www.johnbiscuti.net/2013/04/25/2013-guild-starfire-bass/
The flaws are disappointing. Hope they get those problems corrected, pronto. Multiple flaws on a single bass from new series doesn't bode well.
He says that really big frets make it harder to get low action. I wonder what he means by that, since action has to do with the distance between the fret tops and the bottom of the strings -- not the board. Could be inadequate fret or nut work, and the hump in the neck certainly doesn't help.
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Yikes, that's not good news for sure.
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That bass needs to be made without the thumbrests
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Only zero to two or three Starfires will come to Europe each month and they have like 70 orders now. Fender expects to be on time with delivery in 2014. The bass on the Messe had no flaws. The one reviewed could be an early one.
The big problem of the basses is that Fender has only one facility which can make them. It's the Gretsch Electromatic factory. Demand for those instruments are so high that Guild comes in second place.
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So, if the Gretsches and Starfires are made in the same factory, shouldn't the quality be similar or do you suppose they are cutting corners to keep the price of the Guilds down?
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Hard to say what's going on. Fender doesn't own the factory but if there's a capacity problem, no doubt they can specify what takes priority.
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While in the HOG yesterday, I did grab one of the Starfire (MIK) guitars and it was beautiful and flawless as far as I could tell. The finish was excellent and the binding was perfect. Nice straight neck,too. Maybe the bad bass example online was a really early one that shouldn't have left the factory. I have to say that my Gretsch 5123 was made in the same Electromatic plant and it was pretty much flawless and sounded great. I'm on the fence with the MIK thing. I'm down to one Asian bass as I've been expanding my USA/German stock. A lot will depend on the the sound of this bass for me as well as the fit and finish.
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I had a '67 Starfire II I flipped it almost as soon as I got it. It was just not for me. I'll have no need to revisit a offshore version. If they are your cuppa I hope that they are well done, certainly no reason they can't make a nice one.
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That bass needs to be made without the thumbrests
No, those are not thumbrests. Those are slap preventors :mrgreen:
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No, those are not thumbrests. Those are slap preventors :mrgreen:
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I happened across one of the new MIK Starfire reissues today - managed to play it a little bit. It wasn't bad - didn't make much of an impression either. I had a '68 Starfire I with the pickup in the neck position which I sold, so I'm kind of spoiled. To me, it needed flats, though now that I think of it I should have messed with the EQ on the amp more. And that's another important part of the equation - I was playing through a TC Electronics combo, probably the BG250, which I have played through before and haven't been impressed. I kind of liked it with the tone knob all the way off.
I'm sorry this is such a lame review! At least I have a picture:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7996/e4he.jpg)
I wish I could say something conclusive about the pickup, but it didn't really hit me either way, good or bad. The thumb rest was kind of interesting - nice placement, but felt kind of weird - might even have been wood, unlike the plastic ones on my '68.
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Thanks for the report, Harry. Just because you were underwhelmed doesn't mean it's a lame review.
They still look impressive to me. But based on this and an earlier negative report, I sure wouldn't buy one without playing it.
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A guy in The Netherlands has one and is very impressed. The rests seem to be rosewood.
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I liked your review Harry. I think it reflected your true feelings about the bass - underwhelmed. I would want to try it with flats too.
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Seconded- cool to hear your opinions, especially given that you had owned an original.
Were you also underwhelmed with the '68? or was this MIK just sort of anemic in comparison? I know that in my own Guild experience, I feel that I preferred the 70s pickups over the Bisonics (heresy!).
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I think part of it was the desire factor - when I found the '68 back in 2008 or so, I was into the history of Alembic, Phil Lesh, Darkstars, etc., so I was really excited and fell in love with the bass right away. I sold it mainly because I wasn't playing it and needed money, not because I didn't like it. Well, I had an issue with the E string - I tended to hit the string too hard so that it would hit the pole piece and make some mechanical noise through the pickup - pickup was as low as it would go without shorting out.
I have to admit I am skeptical about these new bi-sonics - but there has been so much hype about Darkstars, Bi-Sonics, on and on and on. The build quality of the bass was good, it felt good physically to play. A lot of my reaction is probably because of where I am coming from - I've gotten my Starfire fix, I wasn't excited to play this one. Someone who is really wanting the Starfire vibe may very well be happy with it.
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I was underwhelmed by the tone as well. Played one a couple weeks ago and it was beautiful, the neck is wonderful to play, a really nice slim round profile. I just couldn't justify the money for the sound. I have taken too many basses home over the years that look great but lack in terms of output or tone. I am trying to be more discriminating!
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I was underwhelmed by the tone as well. Played one a couple weeks ago and it was beautiful, the neck is wonderful to play, a really nice slim round profile. I just couldn't justify the money for the sound. I have taken too many basses home over the years that look great but lack in terms of output or tone. I am trying to be more discriminating!
So the Gretsches have a stronger or more vibrant tone?
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I'll be interested in Bill's response. He has had a 5123 Electromatic, and sold it. I have kept mine but it's a lot lower output than the Thunderjet.
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Al is correct. The Thunder Jet has huge output while 5123 TV Jones pups are weaker. After buying the Gibson 335 and Midtown, I just didn't see enough reasons to hold onto the 5123. Both Gibsons have more power and each uniquely is a better bass IMHO. If I only had one hollow body, the 5123 would be a fine bass to have. But there are a lot of options out there.
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We hang onto things for a variety of reasons.
I can't say that my 5123 isn't a nicer playing bass than my 1970's Univox 335-copy. I'm hanging onto the Univox for now because it's freakin' lovely even if the pickups are so-so. I'll also never see another one in this pristine condition for the price I paid. It sounds like a 70's bass and if I'd get busy and clean the electronics it would be a nice player.
I plan on selling my Casady gold top, even though it's a more powerful bass than the 5123 and I do love its sound. It's a big bass and not the most comfortable one for me to play. But it turns out to be the bass I don't reach for since I have others I prefer.
The Thunderjet is a better competitor to the Casady. It doesn't roar like the Casady does on its most bassy setting, but it seems well-balanced across the strings.
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So, if the Gretsches and Starfires are made in the same factory, shouldn't the quality be similar or do you suppose they are cutting corners to keep the price of the Guilds down?
These Starfires are more expensive than the Electromatics aren't they? I'd like to do an in hand comparison.
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These Starfires are more expensive than the Electromatics aren't they? I'd like to do an in hand comparison.
If Guitar Center carries them, you might be able to do that. They seem to be keeping 5123's around.
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If Guitar Center carries them, you might be able to do that. They seem to be keeping 5123's around.
Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the planet. :sad:
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Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the planet. :sad:
Well, that's inconvenient!!
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Well, that's inconvenient!!
Damn right it is.
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Me too. I am including the Starfire in the long list of basses to buy in the next visits in the US. Until now I bought three basses in three work travels.
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I had a chance to try one of the new Starfires out today through a small Fender combo amp at a local music store. I already have a De Armond Starfire from the 90's, so I was looking forward to seeing how much difference there would be.
Visually, I think they nailed it. The cherry finish was very nice, and the bass felt very comfortable. The neck was a little faster than my De Armond, but the large Grover tuners made it neck dive slightly more. A set of Hipshot UltraLites would help I'm sure. I was worried the single pickup in the bridge position would be too bright - but with the tone rolled off it thumped quite nicely. Overall, thumbs up on looks, sound, and playability.
Despite all of that - it didn't seem to be any better a value than the De Armond. It still feels like any other Korean made bass, and hanging on the wall next to all of the other import instruments, it just made me wonder what justify's the price tag ($1,000). Another thing I noticed - is that the De Armond seems to resonate more- and has more of a woody-acoustic sound that the Guild didn't. My guess is the difference in woods used (Maple vs. Mahogany).
The new Starfire is a looker, plays great, and sounds good too- But just not enough to get me to trade my De Armond in or add the Guild to my collection at the moment.
(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/stiles72/Ampeg%20BT-15C/starfire013.jpg)
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Thanks for the report. I know what you mean about the price tag, it's hard for me to consider paying $1000 for a Korean made bass.
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Wow , that's a pic of my old Ampeg :o. Still got it tucked away downstairs.
Rick
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Thanks for the report. I know what you mean about the price tag, it's hard for me to consider paying $1000 for a Korean made bass.
+1. I actually like my dearmond though I didn't pay anywhere near 1000 for it. more like 450 IIRC
keep hearing really good things about Novaks bisonics. Supposedly much closer to the originals than the DS were/are.
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Plasticbass ?
Im thinking about having one more Starfire (II natural)
-the new Korea-Guild reissue. BUT :
Im concerned : Can you/someone please make clear to me:
What does "laminatet" exactly meen ? (”Laminatet back and body”)(Laminatet sides) - is it ALL real wood in layers ? - like plywood; thin layers of wood, glued/pressed together ?
or is it artificial/syntetic ?
-or wood with an artificial topcoating- layer ?
(the nice looking top and back could be plywood with a topcoating/photo of wood) ?
to me : fake!
I had a DeÁrmond Starfire- desided to change the color and tried to sand the ”laq away and on the sides: not possible ; it is plastic all the way.
Pu,s were the uninteresting standards ,ugly tuners ,so I finaly gave it away and got myselve a Guild costombuild Starfire II with ebony fingerboard , no dotmarks, Black bindings, flamed headstock, Darkstars , no mastervol, no pu- toggleswitch.– The King of all sound. WOOD !
You can mess with my wife, but dont touch my bass !
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I had a DeArmond and I played some new Guilds ar fairs. Different animals. The Guild is a real reissue,the DeArmond was a but like the old one..
Laminated. Almost all semisolids are laminated as far as I know, or the top is. From cheap Chinese to custom shop ES-335s. Layers of thin wood. No problem. With a laminated top it doesn't matter that much which wood it is. Sono worries.
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Thanks.
I contacted Guild aswell-:
Thanks for your interest in Guild Guitars!
The term "laminate" means that it isn't one solid piece of wood, it means that there is two pieces of wood glued together rather than one piece of wood top, back and sides. It is indeed real wood, not artificial, it is just sturdier to build them this way.
If you have any additional questions, feel free to respond directly to this email and I'll be happy to address them - please do not modify the subject line of your email reply, as our system will not recognize it. Please do not resubmit another inquiry through our website as it will open another issue.
Have a great day and thanks for choosing Guild!
Taran Longo | Service Department
Cordoba Music Group
1401 Stellar Dr, Oxnard, CA 93033
P 310-857-1709 | F 310-857-1690
Cordoba Guitars | Guild Guitars
HumiCase | Aquila | Savarez
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it is just sturdier to build them this way.
Sturdier? I think they mean easier.
They use a mold to press thin layers of veneer into the curved shape of a top. By using several layers glued together the laminated wood stays in shape.
Carving a slab piece into a curve with a planer is much more time consuming. And it requires serious woodcrafting skills.
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I'm assuming that it is the same way (possibly more contemporized) Gibson makes 335's and EB2's.
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I'm assuming that it is the same way (possibly more contemporized) Gibson makes 335's and EB2's.
Yes, they were always made this way.
Gibson Custom does make one electric archtop (guitar) with a solid spruce top, the Citation. It's something like $22K.
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Very interesting! Thanks. I keep learning stuff here.
I'm gonna have to eyeball my three hollow/semi hollow basses.
Not that it really matters all that much.
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It's not an acoustic instrument that relies on a vibrating top for its sound.
The early Höfner 500/1s had solid tops, no doubt because their orchestral strings had solid tops. But they went to a laminated top around 1961-62. I'm not aware of any other production hollow or semihollow electric basses with solid tops.
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I had a long talk with a guitar designer. Because of the lamination top woods don't really matter. It's more neck middle block, ...