The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: godofthunder on May 13, 2011, 07:34:52 AM
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They just showed up in the mail today, They look beautiful! I can't wait to install them in a bass.
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Hi Scott, I'm waiting to 'hear' your impressions. I've been getting to know Carlo through talking about the Thunderbuckers and his JAE Birds. He hipped me to this here outpost for the bass-obsessed and I'm finally getting around to posting. I'm still dithering between the "66 and '63 spec for the 'bird he will be crafting for me. If I can't make up my mind, I'll have to invest in a pair of both spec. It is SO COOL that he has brought these into production again!
Ken
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Put those in your JAEbird now Scott, there's no time to lose ;)
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Pix from ThunderBucker Ranch prior to departure. 500k pots recommended.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/THUNDERBUCKER/66B-1.jpg)
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/THUNDERBUCKER/baseplate66.jpg)
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Have ask- how much do they cost?
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Have ask- how much do they cost?
Currently $160 each, $300 a pair delivered. You can contact Steve here:
http://thunderbuckerranch.com/ (http://thunderbuckerranch.com/)
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I will be installing them today, I got sidetracked by my new NR.
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They are installed A -B ing with one of my vintage birds right now.
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;D
Then a comparison to the JAEbird as it originally came, please.
;D
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First these things are just beautiful and look spot on, very well made. Comparisions I can make won't be objective. I have only played the Jaebird with the Duncans twice and both times through 200 tube heads. Today I am using my little Fender practice amp with a 8 or 10 inch speaker. Also doing a side by side with my vintage NR and the Jaebird is a apples to oranges kind of thing, to top it off I am not sure of the strings that came with the Jaebird but they are not RS66LDs like my NR is strung with. Having said all that they sound great, more out put than the SDs and just a hint of grit, my '67 NR is just a little louder than the Jaebird with the Thunderbuckers and the NR has more treble zing I have a feeling that the Roto Sounds account for the difference. For me the real test will be at a gig with the Hiwatts and having the same strings on both basses. So what I can say is that they sound great in the Jaebird, and have all the hall marks of what I think a Thunderbird pickup should have, nice warm midrange response with a treble zing, a full not harsh tone and hot, slightly overdriven output for passive pickups. I think Steve and Carlo really brought it to the table I am more than satisfied with what I hear but I really need to do a side by side with my stage rig and the same strings on both basses.
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Holt shit! Strings make a HUGE difference. I was not satisfied with my first comparison and I knew strings were a big part of the equation soooooo. I just put a used set of Rotosound RS66LDs on my Jaebird the same strings in about the same condition as on my '67 NR. Now the Jaebird is a bit louder and it has the angry piano thing going, it sounds in tone identical to my '67, Dead on perfect, man Steve really nailed it! If you are looking for that Thunderbird sound look no further than the Thunderbucker. Awesome well done standing ovation. :toast:
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Scott, I shipped your JAEbird with nickel Rotosound RS66LDN, fairly old takeoff set. Lately I'm liking Ken Smith Rock Masters, used them for my JAEbird clip.
Steve deserves all the credit for ThunderBuckers, all I did was give him the original pups and a mission. Glad they sound authentic to you.
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I had noticed the strings you ship with my bass sounded more docile than what I usually use, I do like them but I have been using the RS66LDs for so long I don't care for much else ! They are a much more aggressive sounding string and it showed in the side by side comparison.
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I ship 'em with either $5 Allparts nickels or whatever takeoffs I have lying around. If the buyer has a preference I'll supply those for whatever they cost me minus $5. Strings are a personal choice but as you say make a huge difference.
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I Sat in with friends last night they let me do eight songs :) The bass player had Epi pro Thunderbird run through a GK 1x12 combo with a GK 1x15 with some MXR DI tone pedal whatever it was I was very impress with the sound of the GK Epi combo. When I plugged my Jaebird into the rig it was clear my bass was louder, WAY louder than his Epi Pro bird (those are active right ?) Again all I can say is the bass sounded fantastic, the pups are dead on and WELL worth the $. I just ordered two more. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Thunderbuckersblacktbird005.jpg)
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I have been using the RS66LDs for so long I don't care for much else !
And Jimmy used Rotosounds for forever, what more could a body ask for?
Watching this with massive interest; I've got a slight itch to build a Frankenbird as & when the parts come my way. Those pups look like they're "the one".
Do they come with mounts/rings or are you using the ones that came with the bass?
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And Jimmy used Rotosounds for forever, what more could a body ask for?
Watching this with massive interest; I've got a slight itch to build a Frankenbird as & when the parts come my way. Those pups look like they're "the one".
Do they come with mounts/rings or are you using the ones that came with the bass?
Hi Stu! The pups are fantastic you can't go wrong. The bass came with rings but I had some Gibson ones lying around so I installed those. The Pickups do come with or without rings your choice.
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Wow. Talk about bridging technology of the past with the present! I read Steve's "About Us" page @ the Thunderbucker Ranch (amusing!) and discovered that since he couldn't find a source for the required bobbins, had them 3-D printed. My son enlightened me to this process earlier this year when he sent me this link: http://www.economist.com/node/18114221
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Yup, very cool stuff. At HP we had what we called "stereo-lith" machines, which were early 3D printers. Now it is available to anyone-- down load google sketchup, a freeware 3D modeling program with a modest (non-insurmountable) learning curve, download another freeware converter to .skp, email the model to any one of many 3D contract "printers", and in a week or so, you have parts.
Very Cool, but the piece price is still pretty high, and it doesn't scale down much with volume. I am investigating actual injection molding with an aluminum tool, but the first quote I got back was $7K in tooling.
Aint.Gonna.Happen.
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Hey Steve. Definitely a mind-stretcher for me and a paradigm changer for manufacturing. Looking forward big-time to hearing the Thunderbuckers with my own ears!
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i just sent an email to order a 63 set as i already have a 66 set in process.
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I've just emailed an order for a 66 set for my JAEbird. Any idea what the lead time is?
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Mine took about a week Mark.
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My order for a pair of 66's has been sent :)
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Mine took about a week Mark.
Brad, which bass are yours going into?
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I'm putting a 66 neck pickup into the sweet spot on a P bass, Mark.
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I'm putting a 66 neck pickup into the sweet spot on a P bass, Mark.
A Pinobird! We want to see that when it's done!....Please
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I'll definitely post pics when it's done. In the meantime here's a custom that Mike Lull built for me recently:
(http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/bdgotoh/PT4body.jpg)
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And ... any updates to tell?
Thanx.
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I'll be getting my JAEbird with '66 Thunderbuckers this Friday, I can post thoughts this weekend.
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I'll definitely post pics when it's done. In the meantime here's a custom that Mike Lull built for me recently:
(http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/bdgotoh/PT4body.jpg)
That a great looking bass. Wonder how it would sound with a Mahogany body?
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Indeed very purdy. And different.
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That's one of Mike's new lines isn't it? The PT-4 I think? He is also doing it with a Jazz body, the JT-4 if I'm not mistaken. I have been itching to do another build somewhat like one of those, but with a mahogany body, so it'll be a Fenderbird in sheep's clothing. Man these chrome pickups are burning a hole in my pocket.... ;D
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At a glance, that bass body is very G&L-like.
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Looks like a standard P shape to me.
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...lack of pickguard, chrome knob layout etc. I HATE that bridge, but if I squint hard enough, it also looks "post-Fender Leo." I have sick dreams about combining MFD's and Thunderbuckers.
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True, but the pics on his site show a pickguard. http://www.mikelull.com/Instruments/PT4_PT5/PT_Large.htm
I meant the body shape anyway. The bridge does look closer to G&L than Fender.
Looks nice with the T-bird pickups. Brad's bass without the pickguard looks even better.
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Looks a lot better without the PG IMO. I've never really liked that style of bridge but I think that one actually suits the bass sans PG of course. Wonder how a 3 pointer would go on it? ;)
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Just for looks, I prefer this to the Fender original. The big argument that speaks for the Fender bridge is that it is the original part on a Fender bass, but this bass isn't a Fender so why bother if there is something better and nicer?
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Reminds me a little of the short-lived Fender Zone Deluxe American, or maybe a Gibson Bass IV. The Fender Zone was actually a pretty cool bass. I considered getting one when they came out.
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... Wonder how a 3 pointer would go on it? ;)
Bite your tongue! :mrgreen:
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That a great looking bass. Wonder how it would sound with a Mahogany body?
How many do you want? ;D
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Reminds me a little of the short-lived Fender Zone Deluxe American, or maybe a Gibson Bass IV.
Gibson IV is what I thought of too.
(http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/bdgotoh/PT4body.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/735419/PDRM0013.JPG)
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Today's my 'day off'...so I've started this. JAEZZbird, it will not have a 3 point. I LIKE the original low mass threaded Fender bridge but also have used all 3 Badass variations , Schallers,Gotohs and whatevers on 'Fneders'.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/JAEZZbird/P1030619.jpg)
I contacted ThunderBucker Ranch to build a TBer '666 model to add to the current line, based on replicating (or improving) the high output sound of Orville by Gibson pickups. Hotter magnets and more wire (2 miles is NOT ENOUGH ;D) is the starting point. Steve is filling orders as they were placed, Jim should have his pretty quick as well as the 'Down Under' contingent...I got my six sets first and just placed an order for another dozen.
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Steve is filling orders as they were placed, Jim should have his pretty quick as well as the 'Down Under' contingent...
Woo Hoo! cant wait. :thumbsup:
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my 63's are in transit. can't wait.... First stop in the black JAEbird. If they are too tame for a JAEbird i will get a set of the 66's or maybe the orvilles (i have never played or heard an orville but everyone here loves them so...) and put the 63's in a fender ish body for my tamer R&B vibe/gig :mrgreen:
love the CAR bass on Lull's site...
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my 63's are in transit. can't wait.... First stop in the black JAEbird. If they are too tame for a JAEbird i will get a set of the 66's or maybe the orvilles (i have never played or heard an orville but everyone here loves them so...) and put the 63's in a fender ish body for my tamer R&B vibe/gig :mrgreen:
love the CAR bass on Lull's site...
Check here for future developments
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=5784.msg93399#new
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/JAEZZbird/DunnHood.jpg)
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True, but the pics on his site show a pickguard. http://www.mikelull.com/Instruments/PT4_PT5/PT_Large.htm
I meant the body shape anyway. The bridge does look closer to G&L than Fender.
Looks nice with the T-bird pickups. Brad's bass without the pickguard looks even better.
The bridge is a stock Hipshot B, Mike uses that or Hipshot A and I really don't like the A bridge. The B is light and low profile and the saddles don't move around like on a classic Fender bridge.
I asked Mike to build it without a pickguard so he could put the pickups where they are on a Tbird. The PTs with guards cram the pickups too close to the bridge for me. I do like how the single pickup PT bass looks with a pickguard though. I'm looking for a split coil Gibson Tbird pickup to put into a single pup PT.
I asked Mike when I ordered about mahogany for the body and neck because I wanted the bass to sound as good as the T4 I had at the time. He said that alder and a maple neck sounded just as good to him so I went with his recommendation. I think it's a touch brighter than the T4 but I like that.
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I asked Mike to build it without a pickguard so he could put the pickups where they are on a Tbird. The PTs with guards cram the pickups too close to the bridge for me. I do like how the single pickup PT bass looks with a pickguard though. I'm looking for a split coil Gibson Tbird pickup to put into a single pup PT.
That's why I like the Jazz body for a dual ThunderBucker conversion. It's very easy to rout a Jazz pick guard for a Tbird neck pup in the standard vintage 'bird position since it completely overlaps the Jazz position. I also like stacked pots for the conversion, separate tone/vol for each pup They act completely independently unlike the standard 3 pot setup.
If you mean a coil tapped pickup, Steve might be able to help, either coil tapping an original 60s Gibby or a ThunderBucker.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/JAEZZbird/P1030633.jpg)
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Shipped today, 2 sets of 66 ThunderBuckers to addresses in Australia and a 63 bridge to Illinois! ThunderBuckers around the world!
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I'm itching to order a Thunderbucker for my BaCH TH-1. I think I'd like to go for the '66 BUT, should I order a neck or bridge pickup? Pots, jack, etc have all been replaced and it as LaBella Deep Talkin' flats on it now.
Suggestions would be welcome!
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If you mean a coil tapped pickup, Steve might be able to help, either coil tapping an original 60s Gibby or a ThunderBucker.
I'm not really sure what I mean. I got a chance to hear a pickup in Andre's 12 string Hamer what was supposedly a Gibson splitcoil. I found this pic here, I think it was Mark's photo. I really liked the tone, sort of a cross between a P bass and a Tbird pickup. Did these come on any particular year of Tbird? Are they impossible to find used?
(http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/bdgotoh/gibsonsplitcoil.jpg)
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I'm itching to order a Thunderbucker for my BaCH TH-1. I think I'd like to go for the '66 BUT, should I order a neck or bridge pickup? Pots, jack, etc have all been replaced and it as LaBella Deep Talkin' flats on it now.
Suggestions would be welcome!
HI Denis, the difference between the B and N is that the B has a few changes to make it hotter. If you want maximum output, then the B is the way to go. The N will be a little less "in your face". Depends on what you want....
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Coil tap is not the same as a split coil.
Mark might know more about when the split coil TBird pickups were made.
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I'm not really sure what I mean. I got a chance to hear a pickup in Andre's 12 string Hamer what was supposedly a Gibson splitcoil. I found this pic here, I think it was Mark's photo. I really liked the tone, sort of a cross between a P bass and a Tbird pickup. Did these come on any particular year of Tbird? Are they impossible to find used?
(http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy46/bdgotoh/gibsonsplitcoil.jpg)
Hey Brad,
That is mine :)
It's a black one that's had it's outside cover peeled off then fit inyo a '76 cover. Definately a good T Bird pup I don't know how long they used them tho. Likely from re intro in '88 till the early '90s.
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Shipped today, 2 sets of 66 ThunderBuckers to addresses in Australia
:thumbsup:
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Likely from re intro in '88 till the early '90s.
Thanks Mark, I appreciate it. I need to keep some magnetic viewing paper in my car now...
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Shipped today, 2 sets of 66 ThunderBuckers to addresses in Australia and a 63 bridge to Illinois! ThunderBuckers around the world!
Yay!
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I contacted ThunderBucker Ranch to build a TBer '666 model to add to the current line, based on replicating (or improving) the high output sound of Orville by Gibson pickups. Hotter magnets and more wire (2 miles is NOT ENOUGH ;D) is the starting point.
Can't wait to hear how these "666" pups turn out. The pups in my Blackbird are way hotter, cleaner, and deeper than any of the other T-bird pup variants I've heard; and I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a set of '66 Thunderbuckers - but these "666"'s might be even closer to what I'm looking for.
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Can't wait to hear how these "666" pups turn out. The pups in my Blackbird are way hotter, cleaner, and deeper than any of the other T-bird pup variants I've heard; and I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a set of '66 Thunderbuckers - but these "666"'s might be even closer to what I'm looking for.
I'll pass it on to Steve, you might also drop him a line. He's been doing a lot of research with various Thunderbird type pups and I'm sending him an early G&L to help figure out the best way to coil tap for output and tone.
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:thumbsup:
Any sign of your Thunderbuckers yet, given ours shipped on the same day? Nothing here yet.
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Just walked in the door and picked em up from the Post office on my way home tonight. I hope they sound as good as they look. Very well packaged.
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And mine arrived today!
Steve and Mo make these look like a work of art - the presentation and packing is first class!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Bass%20gear/IMG00365-20110708-0847.jpg)
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So glad they got to both of you OK, this shipping overseas is a bit new to us. Hope you like the sound as much as the packing :mrgreen:
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Very impressive in every way. I especialy like the Info sheet that comes with the pups Steve. All relevent information and written in lay persons terms yet not dumbed down.
Now I just need to find some time to install them in my BachBird. Its looking like this weekend is over already :-\
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I finally got around to installing my '66 pair in my JAEbird last night - nice and easy installation - I didn't even need to rout the cavities, which Carlo had said I would need to do, so that was a bonus - they dropped straight in.
For those of you who have installed these Thunderbuckers in your JAEbird, can I ask how high you have the two pickups? (ie. distance between the strings and the pickup). The reason I ask is that even with an extra layer of neoprene (from an old mousepad) under my pickups in addition to the foam that came with the JAEbird when fitted with Duncan pups my pickups are still around 1/2" below the strings. Do I need even more foam? What did you need to do to get your pickups to the 3/16" that Steve recommends?
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At the time I did the first run of basses, Thunderbuckers were a pipe dream, the routes are probably 3/4" deep to accommodate the SDs. You might need a 1/4" (6mm) wood shim about 2" (50mm) long. Approx 3/16" below the strings is what I install them at.
The strings should only be 1/2-5/8" off the body absolute maximum at the bridge, how high are the saddles? Is the neck shimmed? Action really high? Jim (Jumbodbassman) probably has the bass that's closest in spec to yours and he did the ThunderBucker conversion to his.
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Same issue with the lull and my bach bird. I wound up using about 3 inches tall of soft foam to get the right amount of resistance so the pickup fights the screw enough so no sagging or hanging up half when pressing on top or bottom. if you know what i mean. For the time being it is working ok..... Eventually i will have to get some wood inserts to fill the gap better. springs may help too but then they will flop around neck to bridge making one side higher than the other.
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I did some mahogany blocks for my Bach's and my Nikki Sixx Mk.II, easy enough and I'm a total noob with woodworking ;)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Nikki%20Sixx/NikkiSixx005.jpg)
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on another note my gig 2 weeks ago had lousy weather so no taste test as i went with weather proof (cheapo) basses. Last week however i played inside in a rather large room with 40 foot ceilings big stage and got to do my taste test. First jaebird 63 pups, bach lull, new jaebird with 66 pups and i brought a Darkstar tractor j bass for whatever. Tuning up and playing around before people showed up i liked the 63 bass the best. Really nice clean lows (custom spacing) and i thought it sounded very similar to the darkstar bass. Lull was the loudest sounding and very clear. Thought the 66 was over the top grindy.
Then the rest of the band and people showed up. NOT EVEN CLOSE. The 66 cut through the band best and my apparent dislike for "fake" distortion was cured. With my avatar 2-12 cab and eden amp tube distortion about 40-50% depending on song and the contour defeated (meaning no dip in the EQ) the 66 bird was outstanding. Even when the contour was back on, the 66 just cuts thru the best. Thanks to the new hybrid amps and older SS stuff with the gain controls my basses really never get to push an amp much in the last 20+ years. I always follow the instructions and back off when the light goes on. especially with my foderas as i do not want an amp to color it's sound during more mellower gigs.. I haven't really enjoyed playing with "natural" distortion since i sold my V4B asI never can get that out of any SVT i have used/had because of the volume needed.
Clearly this new found love for some distortion will only work with some of my bands/gigs.... for now anyway. Next up i think i will bring out some old ampeg b15s's with the white bird for classic rock club gigs.
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PS going to look at a very old sunn sorado amp this weekend. 60 watts of tubey goop :mrgreen:
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At the time I did the first run of basses, Thunderbuckers were a pipe dream, the routes are probably 3/4" deep to accommodate the SDs. You might need a 1/4" (6mm) wood shim about 2" (50mm) long. Approx 3/16" below the strings is what I install them at.
Thanks Carlo, that sounds easy enough for a woodworking noob like me
The strings should only be 1/2-5/8" off the body absolute maximum at the bridge, how high are the saddles? Is the neck shimmed? Action really high?
The action is fine, exactly how you set it up - I haven't touched the saddles or shimmed the neck. My 1/2" estimate might be a bit off - I've been living in the metric world for 25 years LOL.
I'll put in a timber block as you suggest and will adjust the pups again after that. It's all good - the pickups look and sound great, but I can't get enough bite/resistance from the pickup height adjustment screws at the moment to adjust them close enough to the strings.
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Easier to use 2-2 1/2" long shims and the original screw holes with the ThunderBuckers. The screws provided are plenty long enough.
Great review, Jim. Steve is camping for a few days, I'm sure he'll be happy with your results. I never wanted to clean up the vintage Thunderbird pup sound, just replicate it as closely as possible. I think other builders might have been looking for a more 'modern' sound. I do know Barts sound NOTHING like a vintage TBird pup!
The proto for the 666 with coil tap and parallel/series is almost done and Baz will be testing that soon. Hotter magnets and maximum winds on redesigned higher capacity bobbins.
My 64 TBird II, 65 IV and all the JAEbirds with either 63 or 66 spec pups sound fantastic thru my B-15...I wish I still had a few of my Coliseums. Traded the last one for a Sawzall around '88.
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I haven't really enjoyed playing with "natural" distortion since i sold my V4B asI never can get that out of any SVT i have used/had because of the volume needed.
An SVT's distortion is completely different than the V4B's anyway. They're both more muscular than typical Marshall OD, but the SVT will hit you in the gut where the V4B gets sort of buzzy. You CAN get that tone out of a Mesa Bass 400, 400+ or D180, but it requires serious tweaking and some pretty in-depth knowledge of how the V4B is voiced.
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I personally can not wait to test out the 666 pickup in my Hamer Thunderbird 8 string and though my Hiwatt. If it works....forget the Orville search!!!!
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I used my JAEbird over the weekend and it just Kills with the '66 Thunderbuckers!
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I've been in contact with Steve as well regarding the "666"'s - hoping they get me closer to the high output / fuller sound that my Blackbird pups have compared to my somewhat anemic Thunderbird IV. Anxiously waiting...
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An SVT's distortion is completely different than the V4B's anyway. They're both more muscular than typical Marshall OD, but the SVT will hit you in the gut where the V4B gets sort of buzzy. You CAN get that tone out of a Mesa Bass 400, 400+ or D180, but it requires serious tweaking and some pretty in-depth knowledge of how the V4B is voiced.
Just got my '74 V4-B back from the shop (bad solder joint) Saturday and fired it up last night. Plugged in the Hamer 12 string and dimed it. ;D Love that sound, but it's sure to get you fired from any club. LOL! I'm putting it up for sale BTW. I just don't really use it. I have a '74 SVT, '96 SVT III Pro, and an Acoustic B200 combo.
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Last night I cut some 1/4" masonite to shim underneath my Thunderbuckers in my JAEbird, as per Carlo's suggestion. Worked a treat, and my pickups are at the right height and the adjustment screws work fine now. Thanks for the great customer service, Carlo!
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Glad that worked!
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Ok. Just got the prototype '66 MAXX Thunderbucker yesterday afternoon. Pulled out the 200 watt Hiwatt and 4x12. Was a bit tight in my Hamer thunderbird 8 string. Managed to maneuver it in the route. Sounded pretty cool. But..... Then...I put it in my Futura 8 string bass...(the one Tom Petersson borrowed while His 12 string Waterstones were being replaced). Well...I compared it to the Orville that I had in the Futura. Sounded just about the same! It was Loud and crisp and clean and clear with a tint of Bite that comes with any thunderbird pickup. Bravo!!! This thing was Bad-Ass!!! Very hot!!! So...I sent it back this afternoon and will be getting the first production one real soon!!! Kudos to you, Steve!!! I think the pickup is fantastic!!! The hell with preamps!!!! Whoo!!! Hoo!!!!!! '66Max in Baz Cooper's 8 string basses!!!!!
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I'm glad it worked out, Bas!
Has TP parted company with Waterstone or is he just getting new ones? Now I'm curious! He's been with them longer than most anyone since Hamer...
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NO... as far as I know...He is still with them and LOVES those things!!! Baz
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He's also got the Mike Lull Sig Model, and his favorite...the Electrical Guitar Company 12 string aluminum bass.
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the Electrical Guitar Company 12 string aluminum bass.
That one visited my office a week or so ago. :mrgreen:
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That one visited my office a week or so ago. :mrgreen:
How Much?
...does it weigh? I don't think I want to know how much it costs.
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I went over to the Waterstone site and saw that they have a new TP series coming, so maybe that's why they're blowing out the older ones and why Tom is getting new ones. Just a guess...
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It didn't seem that heavy, but I didn't get to put it on with a strap. The whole thing is hollow as far as I know. Ridiculously cool bass! The whole thing looks like a mirror, like the old Velenos from the 70s.
TPs other Waterstones may have gotten waterLOGGED in Ottawa...
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Yeah, Tom couldn't stop raving about that bass when I spoke to him on the phone last week. He loved my Futura 8 as well but stated that He's more into the 12 string bass for the sound in Cheap Trick. He's a really nice guy and who knows...there may be a Baz Cooper 12 string bass in the future........