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Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: ilan on February 13, 2018, 02:28:28 AM

Title: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 13, 2018, 02:28:28 AM: Just hit the BIN on a nice 63/64 Höfner Senator. £510 ($700). I already own 3... '64, '60, '65

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112812245343

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7g8AAOSwryBagf9X/s-l1600.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/photo5771664236362181490_1.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Chris P. on February 13, 2018, 03:30:52 AM: Wow!! Great collection! Would love to have a big Höfner once.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: gearHed289 on February 13, 2018, 08:37:23 AM: That's awesome, very nice!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: westen44 on February 13, 2018, 11:12:33 AM: I really like it. Great choice.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 13, 2018, 07:22:16 PM: Nice score! Amazing that you can get these at such reasonable prices.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: amptech on February 13, 2018, 11:39:15 PM: Quote from: ilan on February 13, 2018, 02:28:28 AM
Just hit the BIN on a nice 63/64 Höfner Senator. £510 ($700). I already own 3... '64, '60, '65

You are the Uwe of Höfners!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 14, 2018, 12:31:24 AM: Quote from: amptech on February 13, 2018, 11:39:15 PM
You are the Uwe of Höfners!
Single-pickup large-bodied. But I do collect for fins. I have both Blonde and Brunette ;-)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Stjofön Big on February 14, 2018, 01:59:31 AM: The blonde to the right, with two knobs (but of course!) is really beautiful. All that's missing is a wig... ;D
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: 4stringer77 on February 14, 2018, 07:24:50 AM: Congrats on your growing Hofner bass family. I see the one with the tort has a treble clef on the headstock along with a small bass clef. You'd think they could have just featured a bass clef by itself but I guess that would look too plain.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: doombass on February 14, 2018, 10:17:08 AM: That's a beautiful burst! Very smooth transition.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Highlander on February 14, 2018, 02:34:42 PM: V nice... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: jumbodbassman on February 14, 2018, 02:35:05 PM: sweet bass. enjoy
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Pilgrim on February 14, 2018, 03:27:47 PM: Those are all just beautiful!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Denis on February 15, 2018, 08:23:20 AM: Damn, your new one is gorgeous!!!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Granny Gremlin on February 15, 2018, 04:30:33 PM: Wow, she is a beaut.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 15, 2018, 04:40:44 PM: (https://media.giphy.com/media/16YlHJ6II0BK8/source.gif)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 15, 2018, 05:54:12 PM: It must be some kind of natural incest allergy, but I remain unimpressed of German bass guitars, old or new! :-[
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 16, 2018, 01:48:30 AM: Quote from: uwe on February 15, 2018, 05:54:12 PM
It must be some kind of natural incest allergy, but I remain unimpressed of German bass guitars, old or new! :-[
So you'll take an American Kay plywood upright over a Mittenwald carved bass? ;)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: patman on February 16, 2018, 06:32:34 AM: Depends on what you're going to play with it.

Kay is better for Rock 'n Roll.

Lasts longer when playing Rock 'n Roll too...

Just sayin'
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 16, 2018, 12:13:28 PM: Quote from: ilan on February 16, 2018, 01:48:30 AM
So you'll take an American Kay plywood upright over a Mittenwald carved bass? ;)

Kay is LEGEND,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQmpqvoEpws

Mittenwald is, errrm, sehr deutsch!

I don't like Porsches for the same reason and would prefer a Corvette anytime. If you're gonna be superficial, do it with some depth.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Highlander on February 16, 2018, 01:06:22 PM: Little ~~red~~ black ~~Corvette~~ Volvo... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 16, 2018, 03:20:12 PM: A classic, no less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0KpfrJE4zw
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Highlander on February 17, 2018, 02:28:36 AM: Is it still a Volvo you drive...? No need for the looooong hood in front of you to smooth the ego, or has the itch got to great and a sporty model beckons... ;)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 21, 2018, 02:29:06 PM: I still have a Volvo of course! I'm on my way to sixty, no long hooded sports car in the world can do for me these days what a little blue pill reliably can. :mrgreen:

I feel silly in two-seater sports cars. A man's car has to be able to transport something, it's the unfulfilled truck driver in me. ;D Sports cars with no practical use are for wimmin only!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 21, 2018, 03:53:46 PM: The bass has arrived. Non-original bridge (not a problem, I have a spare one) and pickup ring (also a cheap part, no biggie).

Tuned to pitch, the neck just pulled off the body.

Informed the seller. I'll take it next week to my luthier to assess the damage. He can reset it, as he has done for me twice in the past, but I want the seller to refund the cost.

The pic was taken immediately after unboxing, strings still slack.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 21, 2018, 04:11:44 PM: Tur mir leid, Ilan. Old Höfner necks do come off - I've heard of it happening before and my 500/1 actually had two resets, those things weren't made to last for half-centuries and more.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Rob on February 21, 2018, 06:13:05 PM: That shouldn't be too difficult a repair.
I thought they used hide glue.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 21, 2018, 06:15:35 PM: Naw, that was shortly after ze war, we still had food stamps and ate the hide glue. On Sundays.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 21, 2018, 10:27:16 PM: That's unfortunate but if it came off cleanly, it's repairable.

Quote from: Rob on February 21, 2018, 06:13:05 PM
That shouldn't be too difficult a repair.
I thought they used hide glue.

No idea if Höfner used hide glue on the neck joint. Whether or not, don't believe the hype about hide glue being permanent. I've seen hide glue joints that have broken, or failed due to movement after softening (probably from heat or excess humidity).
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 21, 2018, 11:40:54 PM: Hofner have always used hide glue in the neck joint, and still do.

Hide glue is very thin and very strong - it holds upright bass necks, and the string pull is more than twice that of a bass guitar.

The advantage of hide glue, and the reason it is used in violin family instruments, is that it is not permanent - it comes apart with heat. So in a way it's like a bolt-on neck - you can always remove the neck without damage to the joint surfaces, do whatever you need to do - like change the neck angle - and re-glue it into place. Once it's done by a pro (preferably violin makers), the bass is good for another 30-40 years.

I don't recommend using anything but hide glue on Hofner set-necks. With other glues you can still sometimes be able to remove the neck, I've seen it done, but there will be damage to the neck joint and a lot more work will need to be done to re-glue it - with hide glue.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 09:44:04 AM: Doesn't surprise me that they use hide glue . When I referred to the hype, it's because in some quarters you hear about how permanent it is, since there are some examples of centuries-old hide glue joints that have held. That tells you nothing about how many have failed.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: godofthunder on February 22, 2018, 11:42:22 AM: Beautiful! I would have hit that.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Rob on February 22, 2018, 04:53:02 PM: Quote from: uwe on February 21, 2018, 06:15:35 PM
Naw, that was shortly after ze war, we still had food stamps and ate the hide glue. On Sundays.
E
We did too and call it Jello.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Stjofön Big on February 23, 2018, 02:47:36 AM: Just for kicks, here's another old one. And, hrrrmm, it's the bass I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNz-z2JfD6o
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 10:08:57 AM: Quote from: Stjofön Big on February 23, 2018, 02:47:36 AM
Just for kicks, here's another old one. And, hrrrmm, it's the bass I'm talking about: ..

There was a bass in that video?

(https://i.imgur.com/bRdj2Pu.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 23, 2018, 11:46:40 AM: A first year 500/1 - 1956 with the bar pickups, and the treble pickup near the bridge
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 02:37:19 PM: Quote from: ilan on February 23, 2018, 11:46:40 AM
A first year 500/1 - 1956 with the bar pickups, and the treble pickup near the bridge

I was joking.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 24, 2018, 01:40:49 AM: I know
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Stjofön Big on February 24, 2018, 01:48:35 AM: I also...
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: westen44 on February 24, 2018, 07:55:18 AM: Quote from: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 10:08:57 AM
There was a bass in that video?

(https://i.imgur.com/bRdj2Pu.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZpZa4sI1io
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on February 27, 2018, 12:32:48 PM: She was sown into that garment.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 28, 2018, 12:00:07 AM: Took the bass to the violin maker yesterday. He said next week I'll get the bass back.

By the way, he's the guy working on Myrna Herzog's smashed 1660 viola da gamba - here's the story in The Strad (https://www.thestrad.com/news/new-photos-luthier-shlomo-moyal-begins-work-on-viol-destroyed-on-alitalia-flight/7502.article) - I saw it yesterday, it will take him at least a year to finish the restoration project. So I believe that my Höfner is in good hands and will be better than when it was new.

We chatted a little about "relic'ing". In violin making this started in the 17th century. He showed me an upright he built for his wife (an accomplished classical player. Absolutely amazing instrument. It was strung with high-tension strings and had medium-high action, like classical players prefer, but still played effortlessly, and sounded huge. I don't know how I'll ever play my upright again) - it's a new bass (~2-3 years old) but looks like a 100 years old instrument. He showed me some details of the process, my jaw dropped. Violin makers are miles ahead of the guitar industry in relic'ing techniques.

Here is a violin he made for his daughter - a replica of the 1679 "Hellier" Stradivarius:

(https://scontent.fsdv3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23755256_10210680156176466_5332464698889638193_n.jpg?oh=67700781b46983b3933c922626fa2e39&oe=5B061ECA)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 28, 2018, 06:55:00 AM: Yours is obviously in excellent hands.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on February 28, 2018, 09:23:51 AM: I'm entertaining a crazy idea, to give him my '65 blonde Senator for a relic job similar to that violin.

(http://www.ibass.co.il/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_09/photo5866499884511767150.jpg.d929b889adb6dd560965eac606855d42.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on February 28, 2018, 10:06:18 AM: You're right, that's a crazy idea. ;D
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Rob on February 28, 2018, 06:58:33 PM: I agree with Dave 8)
It seems that in the long run of things you are better off to have the neck come loose.
'if it were just slightly pulled I would have probably tolerated it and been frustrated.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM: Quote from: Rob on February 28, 2018, 06:58:33 PM
if it were just slightly pulled I would have probably tolerated it and been frustrated.
That's when most vintage Höfner owners start to shave down the bridge. I can't remember when I've seen one with its bridge unshaved.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on March 01, 2018, 06:49:21 AM: Why on earth would you want to - intentionally - run down a bass from 1965 in exceptionally good condition?

(https://i.imgflip.com/19cdxh.jpg)

The world has gone mad and now even you (of all people), Ilan, as the former beacon of sanity in this forum of fora, are waving the flag for this madness! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on March 01, 2018, 07:04:50 AM: Quote from: ilan on March 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM
That's when most vintage Höfner owners start to shave down the bridge. I can't remember when I've seen one with its bridge unshaved.

True. But the shaving down is just a first step and won't prevent the eventual reset - been there, done that! ;)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 01, 2018, 07:36:55 AM: Shaving down the bridge widens the break angle, resulting in floppier strings. And if the bridge is shaved from the bottom, then almost always its legs don't fit the top perfectly. That's why I have new Höfner bridges in my parts drawer - I know I will need them.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 01, 2018, 07:40:43 AM: Quote from: uwe on March 01, 2018, 06:49:21 AM
Why on earth would you want to - intentionally - run down a bass from 1965 in exceptionally good condition?
The world has gone mad and now even you (of all people), Ilan, as the former beacon of sanity in this forum of fora, are waving the flag for this madness! :mrgreen:

It's resprayed, and has a slight orange peel effect. I usually don't mind it much until I pick up the '60 blonde 500/3, and it looks right.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: patman on March 01, 2018, 10:17:44 AM: level the finish properly and buff?
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: uwe on March 01, 2018, 11:09:21 AM: But Ilan, some orange peel is no cause for separation from either a wife/GF

(https://d2v9y0dukr6mq2.cloudfront.net/video/thumbnail/IoehFAQ/anti-cellulite-treatment-with-manual-massager-on-woman-legs-slow-mo-1920x10_hdyky7fpg_thumbnail-small06.jpg)

or a bass fin!

Alas!, nature's imperfections, but function is largely retained in both cases.

(I'm a constant source of comfort. Here and everywhere else.)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 14, 2018, 05:04:53 AM: The luthier has just sent me this pic
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: patman on March 14, 2018, 06:36:09 AM: beautiful!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Rob on March 14, 2018, 10:47:51 AM: Really nice!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 20, 2018, 08:23:20 AM: Picked her up. Perfect. Added side dots (old Höfners don't have them and it drives me crazy). Of my 4 this one has the fattest neck (front-to-back) and I really like it.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on March 21, 2018, 02:20:19 PM: :toast:

I've learned to really appreciate fat necks on basses.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Chris P. on March 22, 2018, 01:39:13 AM: :) so cool!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 22, 2018, 09:53:31 AM: Quote from: uwe on March 01, 2018, 06:49:21 AM
Why on earth would you want to - intentionally - run down a bass from 1965 in exceptionally good condition?

The world has gone mad and now even you (of all people), Ilan, as the former beacon of sanity in this forum of fora, are waving the flag for this madness! :mrgreen:

So now Höfner are doing a relic - H500/1-RLC-63-0. Basically Macca-spec with "secret varnish". I can assure you that every good violin maker knows the "secret".
http://www.hofner.com/news/news/view/label/Violin%20Bass%20-%20%27Relic%27%20/

(http://www.hofner.com/media/wysiwyg/News_Items/Relic_Bass/H500_1-63-RLC_7.jpg)
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: doombass on March 23, 2018, 01:19:38 AM: Quote from: ilan on March 22, 2018, 09:53:31 AM
So now Höfner are doing a relic - H500/1-RLC-63-0. Basically Macca-spec with "secret varnish". I can assure you that every good violin maker knows the "secret".
http://www.hofner.com/news/news/view/label/Violin%20Bass%20-%20%27Relic%27%20/

(http://www.hofner.com/media/wysiwyg/News_Items/Relic_Bass/H500_1-63-RLC_7.jpg)

No matter what I or anyone else think of the concept, that's one of the most convincing relic jobs I've ever seen.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Chris P. on March 23, 2018, 01:51:40 AM: It looks so good!
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 23, 2018, 02:02:05 AM: The Hofner rack
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: Dave W on March 23, 2018, 08:56:55 AM: Quote from: ilan on March 22, 2018, 09:53:31 AM
So now Höfner are doing a relic - H500/1-RLC-63-0. Basically Macca-spec with "secret varnish". I can assure you that every good violin maker knows the "secret".
http://www.hofner.com/news/news/view/label/Violin%20Bass%20-%20%27Relic%27%20/

As long as the "secret" formula doesn't involve Heather Mills' bodily fluids, I suppose it's okay.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 23, 2018, 09:16:13 AM: Quote from: Dave W on March 23, 2018, 08:56:55 AM
As long as the "secret" formula doesn't involve Heather Mills' bodily fluids, I suppose it's okay.

:mrgreen:

It starts with oil-based lacquer. Then the usual distressing and all kinds of dirt and pigments. But the important thing is oil-based lacquer.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: westen44 on March 23, 2018, 10:39:10 AM: There is more interesting stuff about Hofners here than on the Hofner forum itself. Not that it isn't good, too. But among other things, it focuses way too much on guitars for me.

*I'm speaking of fan-based forums, not anything official.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: ilan on March 23, 2018, 11:13:35 AM: There are facebook groups focusing on Hofner basses. In the Vintage Höfner Basses group there was a heated discussion over what turned out to be a real factory black '61 500/1, close diamond pickups like McCartney's first bass.
Title: Re: I think I just scored another one... this time a '63
Post by: westen44 on March 23, 2018, 12:50:26 PM: Unfortunately, I had too many problems with FB. I left it long ago.