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Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Dave W on February 11, 2018, 11:58:44 PM

Title: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 11, 2018, 11:58:44 PM
I've dismissed the recent articles and YT video predicting the collapse of Gibson b/c the people behind them obviously had no idea how things work and what the numbers meant.

This article is different, and it's by a business writer from a Nashville business journal. Worth your time to read.

Gibson ‘running out of time — rapidly’ (https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/music-business/article/20992105/gibson-running-out-of-time-rapidly)

Looks as if things will change soon, one way or another.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Chris P. on February 12, 2018, 01:55:23 AM
Interesting and this all sounds legit, although I don't understand all the economical things they say.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Alanko on February 12, 2018, 05:04:03 AM
Dallas Seger, a smallscale luthier I follow on Instagram, posted the threatogram he received from Gibson over his 'YG' guitar design: https://www.instagram.com/p/BfE2dbbhBxb/?taken-by=freemans_mountain (https://www.instagram.com/p/BfE2dbbhBxb/?taken-by=freemans_mountain)

The YG is a bit like an SG for sure, but the horns are shorter like a Guild S-100, and he adds a German carve to a number of his creations. It seems odd that Gibson chase down small luthiers who produce Gibson-like instruments when there are companies like Tokai who produce much closer replicas. They presumably know that the small luthiers can't afford big lawyers.

Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Grog on February 12, 2018, 07:38:16 AM
It keeps looking worse........... At this rate, the second printing of "The Gibson Bass Book" will only need two more pages. Or, they could go the same way Kmart did. File bankruptcy & then turn around & buy Fender.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Basvarken on February 12, 2018, 07:56:05 AM
At this rate, the second printing of "The Gibson Bass Book" will only need two more pages.

Yep. Looks like it ;-)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 12, 2018, 10:40:27 AM
Another story from a business and finance site. Sounds even more serious.

Debt Holders Increasingly Anticipate Bankruptcy Filing (https://www.strata-gee.com/gibson-coupon-payment-cfo-out/)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 12, 2018, 11:15:25 AM
Would be a sad end of an era. If Gibson tanks for good,  I'm certain that somebody would buy their name and trademarks and start making guitars based on the classic designs - likely overseas.  Maybe some boutique models still made somewhere in the USA, who knows.  It'd probably be a whole different company.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: copacetic on February 12, 2018, 11:48:40 AM
Does that mean Epiphone goes down with them? Most of their instruments are made in Japan, Korea and China?
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Chris P. on February 12, 2018, 01:03:06 PM
I guess brands like Fender and Gibson will never disappear. They'll just be taken over. Think about the years in the '80s when there were no US Fenders for two years... Somebody will buy Gibson, take on excisting layed off personnel, maybe not all, take over some machines, wood and buildings, maybe not all, and continue. Maybe less models, maybe no studio monitors. It will just go on and maybe people won't notice it that much...

Epiphone. It depends on how the company structure is. Uwe knows more about that. Strange: In Holland we have a different distributor for Music Man and Sterling By Music Man. Different companies, so they both chose their own distributor. Strange, cos together you are much stronger. Epiphone could be an own company with another board, ... I dunno.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 12, 2018, 02:15:20 PM
Gibson isn't going down for good. Chances of the company being liquidated (Chapter 7) are close to zero. A Chapter 11 restructuring is what would happen if refinancing fails and/or HJ refuses to give up part of his equity as part of a pre-bankruptcy restructuring deal.

Gibson's guitar business (including Epiphone) is apparently profitable and steady after recovering from the 2015 sales debacle, so it's very unlikely that the US factories would close regardless of what happens. That's not where they're losing money. It's the expansions into other areas (mostly electronics) and the debt incurred in the expansions that's killing them.

Even if HJ were to retain majority ownership, he'll probably wind up being accountable to a board, which has never been the case up to now. Frankly, I hope his era comes to a close soon.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: amptech on February 13, 2018, 12:04:21 AM
I guess brands like Fender and Gibson will never disappear.

Hurumph to that.

They were in just as bad shape when Henry bought it, weren't they?
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Pilgrim on February 13, 2018, 11:00:09 AM
Sounds like Henry's majority ownership is a major problem with refinancing. It will be interesting to see if he will yield.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 13, 2018, 07:31:26 PM
Henry and David Berryman own the company outright. It's hard to see that situation staying the same.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: TBird1958 on February 14, 2018, 11:04:40 AM


 I think any change will be an improvement at this point, hard to se how things could get worse. Henry just needs to go away.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: 4stringer77 on February 14, 2018, 12:40:56 PM
But if Henry goes away we'll never get a bass version of the Firebird X, the Thunderbird X, with robo-tuners of course!
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: lowend1 on February 14, 2018, 01:29:29 PM
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-guitar-financial-problems/
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: lowend1 on February 14, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
Prices will skyrocket on the Sonex and Corvus.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: clankenstein on February 14, 2018, 02:19:47 PM
God knows how much a Firebird x will cost!
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 14, 2018, 06:08:56 PM

 I think any change will be an improvement at this point, hard to se how things could get worse. Henry just needs to go away.

But if Henry goes away we'll never get a bass version of the Firebird X, the Thunderbird X, with robo-tuners of course!

Henry has the solution to his financial problems, announced today: Presenting the Custom Boogie Van Les Pauls (https://reverb.com/news/gibson-nods-to-shaggin-wagons-with-new-custom-boogie-van-les-pauls).

Okay, who's on board?  :mrgreen:

As our old pal funkycarnivore posted on FB, you could buy the van for less than that.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 14, 2018, 07:56:02 PM
I actually thought this was a joke.  I don't even like the three-tone paint scheme very much.  I guess it's okay, but nothing to get excited about.  Certainly nothing to pay more for. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: veebass on February 15, 2018, 02:20:56 AM
Perhaps it is a good thing that the importer for Australia is "non functional".
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: planetgaffnet on February 15, 2018, 07:58:04 AM
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5055/5399805046_0d30e4dd70.jpg)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Blackbird on February 15, 2018, 08:00:21 AM
A nice 7200$ CDN after tax where I live. Yah, Gibson is right on the mark there.  LOL
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Denis on February 15, 2018, 08:20:34 AM
Does that mean Epiphone goes down with them? Most of their instruments are made in Japan, Korea and China?

And the new Thunderbird Vintage Pros are made in Indonesia!

Maybe Rob needs to start work on an Epiphone Bass Book!
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Pilgrim on February 15, 2018, 09:24:15 AM
Boogie Van Les Pauls - obviously a ploy to make up in volume what they loose in discounted pricing.

(Cough, cough...)

They may actually sell one of each color before deciding it's not their salvation.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Highlander on February 15, 2018, 12:35:10 PM
Maybe the Indonesian Epi factory boss can go for a management buy-out, then acquire the "Gibson" name once they've corned the market in cheap re-issues... :vader:
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on February 15, 2018, 02:04:14 PM
Maybe Rob needs to start work on an Epiphone Bass Book!

That's not a bad idea! There are few Epi's out there that area rarer than their Gibson ancestors: the Epi LP standard.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Basvarken on February 15, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
The Epi LP Standard is already in the book.  8)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on February 15, 2018, 04:00:34 PM
That reminds me: do you have any left? I didn't have money when it was first printed.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Basvarken on February 15, 2018, 04:19:31 PM
Yes, I still have plenty books to sell.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 15, 2018, 04:26:41 PM
Henry J. has done good things for Gibson in the past - like saving their butt in the late 80ies - but he has been too long at the helm - anybody would be, it's been 30 years. It's time to - if not leave and let go - retreat to some representational, elder statesmen role for the company.

The sale of real estate worries me, once non-real estate trade companies do that, you know they are scraping the barrel. And once you hire someone like Alvarez & Marsal (who do good work, but generally have clients who are on life support systems), you're in deep shit.

Alternatively, they have to go down the drain and someone will no doubt carve out the guitar business which I believe can be continued profitably, especially once they stop alienating their retailers. I don't see a necessity for Gibson and Epiphone being bought by one new owner though it is clear that Epiphone - if no longer owned by the Gibson owner - will have to severely change its product range or pay license fees for those Gibson shapes forever. It's probably more vital for Epiphone to stick with Gibson than the other way around.

This should now better happen quickly - the company has been dragging itself through the desert for too long.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 15, 2018, 05:38:38 PM
I don't see Henry letting it go to Chapter 11 b/c he'd lose all of his equity. If he doesn't accept the senior debt holders' terms, and then defaults, they'll force him into it. IMHO at this point he'll have a deal forced on him if refinancing is to be done, and he'll have little choice but to accept. He'd still retain some ownership, maybe even majority ownership, but he won't have free reign.

Epiphone won't be separated from Gibson. No way.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 16, 2018, 10:47:12 PM
Update: Henry speaks out. (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/02/16/struggling-gibson-speaks-out-about-its-finances.html) I'm doubtful.

And Gibson brings back a former CFO (https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/02/16/amid-financial-woes-gibson-brings-back-former-cfo.html) who left after only a short time. Something tells me this may have been insisted on by the creditors.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: gearHed289 on February 17, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
Just a quick note - I started to Google "Gibson CEO.." and the first thing that came up was "Gibson CEO crazy".  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 17, 2018, 01:16:48 PM
Just a quick note - I started to Google "Gibson CEO.." and the first thing that came up was "Gibson CEO crazy".  :mrgreen:

Google autocomplete knows everything!  :mrgreen:

Saw this elsewhere:

(https://www.musiker-board.de/attachments/img-20180217-wa0001-jpg.611683/)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 19, 2018, 11:42:43 AM
There are articles about Gibson all over the Internet now.  I thought about posting a few, but I would hardly know where to begin.  That is quite a difference from a week ago when this topic started.  Then I had to look pretty hard to find much of anything. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Chris P. on February 20, 2018, 02:36:42 AM
Even all Dutch news papers print about it and lots of Dutchies put it on facebook. But mostly rants without any knowledge.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Basvarken on February 20, 2018, 07:28:16 AM
Facebook. But mostly rants without any knowledge.

Tautology!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 20, 2018, 03:22:27 PM
Even all Dutch news papers print about it and lots of Dutchies put it on facebook. But mostly rants without any knowledge.

I've seen lots this elsewhere. People either don't read the articles or don't understand where the debt came from. I've even seen a number of posts from people who hope Epiphone takes over Gibson.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 20, 2018, 03:24:44 PM
This is being posted elsewhere, although i can't find it online at Bloomberg yet.

Gibson Creditors Are Said to Want New CEO Before Funding Rescue

2018-02-20 13:29:13.97 GMT


By Emma Orr
(Bloomberg) -- Gibson Brands Inc.’s Chief Executive Officer Henry Juszkiewicz and his creditors both see value in the iconic guitar brand -- but that might be the only thing they see eye- to-eye on.

A group of bondholders advised by PJT Partners Inc. is pushing for a restructuring that would hand them ownership of the guitar maker and let them install new leadership, according to people with knowledge of the plans. The holders don’t expect Gibson’s earnings will be strong enough to attract new money for a refinancing to head off a default looming later this year, and creditors are reluctant to invest more funds while Juszkiewicz is still in charge, the people said. They asked not to be identified because the plans remain private.

The bondholders, who claim to control more than two-thirds of Gibson’s outstanding notes that come due in August, would allow management to keep a small ownership stake, according to the people. Juszkiewicz, who has run Nashville, Tennessee-based Gibson for more than 30 years, says he has no plans to give up majority control.

Some bondholders are “not looking to get paid back and get interest, but have other intentions that are not necessarily my intentions,” Juszkiewicz, 64, said in a Feb. 15 interview with Bloomberg News. “They’re trying to do everything possible to put the company in a worse position, and get us in a situation where they’re exclusively talking to us. But factually, we’ve made our interest payments, fulfilled our obligations, and our intent is to pay back all bondholders.”

Gibson is under pressure after loading up on debt for an ill-fated expansion into consumer electronics. Credit analysts have raised doubts that the company can repay borrowings coming due as soon as July. Gibson is working on a refinancing plan with investment bank Jefferies Group LLC, Juszkiewicz has said.

The company hasn’t been interacting with the organized group of existing bondholders, according to the people with knowledge of the proceedings. Instead, it’s trying to raise new money to refinance the entire capital structure and take out all of the existing debt, eliminating the conflict, the people said.

In addition to PJT, the bondholder group is advised by Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison, the people said.

Representatives for the advisers and for Jefferies didn’t comment.

“A lot of times bonds just get refinanced with the same group, but in this case we’re not too happy about doing that, so we’re looking at different financing options,” Juszkiewicz said.
“Some of them are single group, some of them are tiered financing. We’ve talked to lots of people, we’ve had interest, and some people have done initial due diligence.”

The company is facing a $375 million bond maturity in August, and a springing lien that could cause $185 million of debt to become current in July if the bond maturity isn’t addressed by that month.

Talks are underway, but there’s not yet a deal in hand or firm pricing, Juszkiewicz said. “We’re really trying to get the pricing right and get the best deal.”

Juszkiewicz bought Gibson from Norlin Corp. in 1986 with two of his former Harvard Business School classmates. According to his biography on the company website, he paid his way through school playing guitar in various rock bands -- a Gibson, of course.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 20, 2018, 03:27:47 PM
And here's today's rebuttal from Henry.

Gibson responds to bankruptcy reports, claiming new strategy “will lead to the best financial results the company has seen in its history” (https://www.musicradar.com/news/gibson-responds-to-bankruptcy-reports-claiming-new-strategy-will-lead-to-the-best-financial-results-the-company-has-seen-in-its-history)

Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 20, 2018, 09:01:28 PM
It's up.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-20/gibson-creditors-are-said-to-want-new-ceo-before-funding-rescue
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 20, 2018, 09:17:57 PM
Looks like you called it right, Dave.  I will be really surprised if Henry gets out of this as either CEO or majority shareholder.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 20, 2018, 10:40:44 PM
Thanks for the link, Paul.

We'll see whose intentions win out.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: doombass on February 21, 2018, 03:12:15 AM
I found this intention interesting:
Quote
“eliminating product segments that do not perform to our expectations and have little upside in the future.”

I wonder what the take on this is? I would'nt be surprised if Henry considers the consumer products high on the upside while some of the musical instruments brands are on the downside in the future. I'm no expert but would'nt consumer products run at higher cost in product development than musical instruments do.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on February 21, 2018, 08:05:58 AM
I'm no expert but would'nt consumer products run at higher cost in product development than musical instruments do.

They do, but they also make much higher profit margins. There are only so many ways that costs can be cut making a guitar before the drop in quality erodes the retail price point as well.  Consumer products cost more to develop but once they are developed, can be made in bulk in contract factories in Asia for very high wholesale and retail margins. Henry saw the cash that Fender raked in on its branded accessories and wanted that pie too, but bit off way more than he could chew.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Pilgrim on February 21, 2018, 09:29:07 AM
From what I've read, it's the consumer electronics that aren't performing. Hopefully he recognizes that. I posted a shot a year ago of Gibson speakers I saw in a store in Tokyo.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 21, 2018, 10:01:07 AM
There's a widespread assumption that guitar sales are in decline. The annual sales figures published in Music Trades show that that's untrue. Sales are relatively flat since the crash of 2008-09 but people are still buying lots of guitars. IIRC only the cheapest (under $200) category was in decline over a 5-year period.

Philips and TEAC/Tascam may be performing okay, hard to say. At least those brands are still very visible. But what about brands like Onkyo and Cerwin-Vega? Their heyday was years ago. My home stereo (except the speakers) is all Onkyo. Rock solid reliable, sounds great. But the newest component is 25-26 years old. Their reputation had declined well  before Henry bought the company.

Anyway... the bottom line is that Henry's existing creditors apparently want him out. The only way he survives that is by refinancing the entire debt with other creditors, at a time when the company's credit rating is very poor. Can he pull it off? Possibly, but not likely.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 21, 2018, 10:02:51 AM
Would you trust this man to turn the company around, when he's the one whose actions brought it to this point?

(https://i.imgur.com/BkCAL5G.gif)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 21, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
All this past buying of electronics has-beens is beyond me. I thought Henry wanted to turn Gibson into a lifestyle brand with the guitar production being the showcase for preserving the mystique. In that case he should be selling Gibson jeans, shoes, leather jackets and, yes, Gibson perfume (I'm not joking, "Släsh - The new fragrance from Gibsön that rocks your role ..." )

(http://www.gotceleb.com/wp-content/uploads/celebrities/cara-delevingne/photoshoot-for-topshop-fall-winter-2014-15/Cara-Delevingne:-Photoshoot-for-Topshop-2014--10-720x1080.jpg)

or open Gibson Cafés akin to Hard Rock Cafés and not buy someone like Onkyo (I used to have an Onkyo tape recorder too, but that was many moons ago).  :o

With the digital revolution ongoing, today's state-of-the-art gadget is tomorrow's junk. Look what happened to Nokia. Unless you are at the forefront of technical development (Gibson is too small for that and doesn't have the money either) and have an image to boot like, say, Apple (for the avoidance of doubt: I have never owned a single Apple product), don't bother. But people will be buying perfume and jeans for a long time to come.

For his alleged quest of making Gibson a lifestyle brand, Henry should have invited Karl Lagerfeld to stage a fashion show in Nashville rather than importing woods from dubious sources. The problem with Henry J is - ignore all the bad figures and some dodgy business decisions in the past - that there is nothing visionary in him. Gibson would need someone like Richard Branson to take it somewhere else.

Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: doombass on February 21, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
I believe Henry is a visionary alright. It's just that his vision miss the target over and over again. If he manages to lure new creditors to his realm things will probably get worse because he has no grasp on reality at all.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Chris P. on February 22, 2018, 01:45:51 AM
Buying a part of our Dutch Phillips was a bad idea.. so we brought down the cpmpany:)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: patman on February 22, 2018, 07:20:46 AM
Focus on building good guitars people can afford
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 22, 2018, 07:21:25 AM
Our local town newspaper "Langener Zeitung" reported about Gibson's state in its edition today - it being a newspaper that generally devotes more pages to the local rabbit breeding club than to, say, the war in Syria. There is definitely something seriously amiss.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 09:57:32 AM
Posted by a member at MLP: "Somebody needs to do one of those Hitler-in-the-bunker videos with HJ."

Anyone up for it?
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 22, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
This thread has already set a world's record in contrasts with a pic of Henry J followed by one of Cara Delevingne with a guitar. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 11:12:48 AM
This thread has already set a world's record in contrasts with a pic of Henry J followed by one of Cara Delevingne with a guitar.

Never heard of her before. I figured Uwe found some random pic of a girl with psycho chick eyebrows and skinny legs. Good contrast with the Crazy Henry gif.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 02:03:36 PM
For your enjoyment: Henry as Hitler in the bunker.

NSFW language


Gibson's Diversification causes a tense moment in the boardroom (https://www.captiongenerator.com/910452/Gibsons-Diversification)

The person who made this couldn't figure out how to save it without losing the captions.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 22, 2018, 02:06:28 PM
Never heard of her before. I figured Uwe found some random pic of a girl with psycho chick eyebrows and skinny legs. Good contrast with the Crazy Henry gif.

I think she is better known in the UK.  I had read about her.  She is a model who also dabbles in acting and I suppose somewhat in music, too.  Because my taste in movies leans toward sci-fi movies that don't take themselves too seriously, I watched her in the recent "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets."   
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Denis on February 22, 2018, 03:16:16 PM
Focus on building good guitars people can afford

That is the simplest and most accurate statement regarding what Gibson needs to do. Even if their guitars were a little more expensive than USA Fenders, they would do fine.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 22, 2018, 04:28:55 PM
"Never heard of her before."

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Dave where do you live again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeqNTqZNN0
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 05:00:32 PM
"Never heard of her before."

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Dave where do you live again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPeqNTqZNN0

What does that mean? What does some shitty CGI movie have to do with where I live?

She's a skank. Just say no to skanks.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 22, 2018, 06:12:31 PM
She's actually highly humorous and self-deprecating.

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/ea1eded4adea683f06008c460a3f528c/tumblr_oiv51oS6by1uh8r5jo1_500.jpg)

No idea what puts her in the "skank" bracket for you, she's a model turning to acting, what is so wrathworthy about that?
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 22, 2018, 08:23:00 PM
....

No idea what puts her in the "skank" bracket for you, she's a model turning to acting, what is so wrathworthy about that?

Too skinny! Not particularly attractive. The pics you posted make her look even less attractive. Nothing wrathworthy about her, nothing that turns my head either.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: exiledarchangel on February 23, 2018, 02:47:33 AM
Too skinny! Not particularly attractive. The pics you posted make her look even less attractive. Nothing wrathworthy about her, nothing that turns my head either.

Couldn't agree more. And that "oh look how modest I am, making silly faces and all" style maybe it was worth something sometime ago, but now it is just boring. Like her.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 23, 2018, 05:36:16 AM
Cara seems to be able to attract more than her share of some of the hottest chicks imaginable which is certainly more than I can say for myself. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: gearHed289 on February 23, 2018, 08:18:47 AM
"Never heard of her before."

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Dave where do you live again?


Me neither. About 15 minutes west of Chicago.  ;D
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 23, 2018, 08:31:00 AM
Me neither. About 15 minutes west of Chicago.  ;D

I'm not even sure how well she is known.  I have mostly heard of her because I go to a sci-fi site that has a sister site which has articles about random topics, including articles about Cara Delevingne.  It was on the sci-fi site that I read about "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" and decided to watch it. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Chris P. on February 23, 2018, 08:39:39 AM
Cara used to be the girlfriend of St. Vincent / Annie Clark. She's a writer to and her sis Poppy is gorgeous too.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 10:17:07 AM
Cara used to be the girlfriend of St. Vincent / Annie Clark. She's a writer to and her sis Poppy is gorgeous too.

Donut bumpers, I should have known.

I'll bet she and St. Vincent liked to have apple pie for dessert but Fiona Apple never showed up for dinner.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 23, 2018, 10:21:18 AM
And she's been the most popular and style-influencing model since Kate Moss - a Karl Lagerfeld (an international fashion designer, Dave) muse too.

And yes, I dig her eyebrows doubling as caterpillars waiting to take on a life of their own any minute.  :mrgreen:

Valerian won't win any awards, but I was entertained. Like nearly all Luc Bresson (obviously an ADS victim!) films, brimming with cute, albeit too often half-baked ideas and clamoring for a developed story. Bresson's scripts appear to be written over night on speed (and never reviewed thereafter).
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: uwe on February 23, 2018, 10:24:51 AM
Donut bumpers, I should have known.

I'll bet she and St. Vincent liked to have apple pie for dessert but Fiona Apple never showed up for dinner.

But Dave, didn't we discuss how you would not use the DB term again?  8)

Alas!, she'll grow out of it. Don't they all? (insert broad male grin here)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 23, 2018, 10:50:10 AM
I wouldn't mind dialing down the sexist language a notch ... just sayin'
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Pilgrim on February 23, 2018, 11:05:55 AM
I wouldn't mind dialing down the sexist language a notch ... just sayin'

Agreed.  I wince every now and then.

Not that I don't have stray thoughts, but I'm better at keeping them off my keyboard than I used to be.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Highlander on February 23, 2018, 01:43:04 PM
Valerian's a Luc Besson film... "Marmite" director... I like Marmite... ;)

(Eg: Lucy, Leon, Taxi, AngelA, Transporter, 5th Element, Le Grande Bleu, Taken... stuff...)
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: 4stringer77 on February 23, 2018, 01:55:17 PM
I wouldn't mind dialing down the sexist language a notch ... just sayin'
I thought this forum was on the same level as a construction site. Are there any women reading what we say here to get offended? A little misogyny between friends is harmless. Just because it's fun to joke about carpet munchers doesn't mean we do it with animosity in our hearts. God bless those mixed up young fur burger/ bearded clam/ box chow hounds.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: 4stringer77 on February 23, 2018, 02:12:33 PM
Sorry if my remarks above seemed crass to anyone, man or woman. Let's get back to enjoying the more wholesome things about music, like this quaint little ditty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcwW2L0rCN4&feature=share
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: westen44 on February 23, 2018, 02:16:23 PM
I remember once encountering that song on YouTube.  I think the original version was from the 1930s. 
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 02:44:57 PM
But Dave, didn't we discuss how you would not use the DB term again?  8)

Alas!, she'll grow out of it. Don't they all? (insert broad male grin here)

No, we didn't.

I'm not the one who took things way off topic by posting her picture.

I wouldn't mind dialing down the sexist language a notch ... just sayin'
Agreed.  I wince every now and then.

Not that I don't have stray thoughts, but I'm better at keeping them off my keyboard than I used to be.

I won't allow racism or obscene language, but if we can't make lighthearted jokes about sexuality, we might as well shut 'er down and call it a day.

I thought this forum was on the same level as a construction site. Are there any women reading what we say here to get offended? A little misogyny between friends is harmless. Just because it's fun to joke about carpet munchers doesn't mean we do it with animosity in our hearts. God bless those mixed up young fur burger/ bearded clam/ box chow hounds.

That's right. No harm is intended.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 02:47:59 PM
Now, let's get back to the subject of this thread with a new article.

CEO Says Gibson Will Dump Brands (https://www.strata-gee.com/ceo-says-gibson-will-dump-brands/)

Gruesome fourth quarter results from the electronics portfolio.

Henry's whistling in the dark.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 23, 2018, 04:20:28 PM
Oh, I'm not mad or anything, and I'm not gonna continually police the forum being a buzzkill, or run away in a huff ... I just didn't think "skank" sounded like particularly lighthearted fun, but if that's how it was meant, okay.  I think it should be okay for people to occasionally say they don't like something, and it's okay for us to disagree.  After all, I'm just one among many, and we have varying preferences. I sure don't keep the lights on here.  If I ever got seriously ticked off about something I'm always free to leave.

I guess if most of us want it to feel like "a construction site" then that's how it'll be.  I'm not the self-appointed voice of any female lurkers here (if there are any?), but I wouldn't be surprised if those few who do chime in once in a blue moon continue to quickly disappear - I think that'd be a natural consequence.

That's all I'm planning to say on this point. Back to grim Gibson popcorn! That's more fun anyway  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: slinkp on February 23, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
For your enjoyment: Henry as Hitler in the bunker.

NSFW language


Gibson's Diversification causes a tense moment in the boardroom (https://www.captiongenerator.com/910452/Gibsons-Diversification)

The person who made this couldn't figure out how to save it without losing the captions.

Looks the person sorted it out eventually :) 

Was that you Dave?  Nicely done, whoever it was :)

Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: the mojo hobo on February 23, 2018, 06:43:27 PM
Now, let's get back to the subject of this thread with a new article.

CEO Says Gibson Will Dump Brands (https://www.strata-gee.com/ceo-says-gibson-will-dump-brands/)

Gruesome fourth quarter results from the electronics portfolio.

Henry's whistling in the dark.

When a writer uses "try and" in the first sentence I get too distracted to pay much attention to what follows.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 23, 2018, 08:13:09 PM
Looks the person sorted it out eventually :) 

Was that you Dave?  Nicely done, whoever it was :)

Not mine. I wouldn't have thought of all those products.  ;D

The guy who made it couldn't figure out how to save it, only to share it. What you're seeing is the page where he created it.
Title: Re: Dire financial situation at Gibson?
Post by: Dave W on February 24, 2018, 06:21:39 PM
Scene from Hardcore (1979) in which George C. Scott's character discovers his daughter acting in a porn movie.

Slightly revised. ;)

https://youtu.be/R3dF43ERTtk