The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Denis on December 09, 2017, 07:27:40 AM
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I was asked if I wanted to play bass with a couple of friends in a project they are working on. So, while studying Rockpile songs, I found this vid. Nick Lowe with a Hamer 8 string!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKPqDicpzX0
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Great! I like Nick Lowe's bass playing, looks, songs and humour (Bowi!) Nice sound but I can't really hear that it's an eight string.
For a sec I thought the singer was Nigel Tufnell.
Like those pub rock bands! I know Ian Gomm quite well.
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The octave strings are lost in the mix. Looks like a Marshall backline?
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It doesn't look like they were having too much fun, doesn't it? :bored:
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Great! I like Nick Lowe's bass playing, looks, songs and humour (Bowi!) Nice sound but I can't really hear that it's an eight string.
For a sec I thought the singer was Nigel Tufnell.
Like those pub rock bands! I know Ian Gomm quite well.
Heresy! Dave Edmunds is one of my favorites.
Just a few glimpses on this promo video, looks like the Hamer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPI8RHfL5UY
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Nice switchmaster!
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Saw them a few times on that tour and recently stumbled on the T shirt too... :mrgreen:
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Nick Lowe looks like a young John Kerry in that vid! And it goes to show that you don't really "hear" the double-octave characteristic of an 8 string bass (just like you don't "hear" it in almost all Cheap Trick songs) unless you dial in an extreme sound or play it with a lot of distortion/effects. To my ears, the best 8 string bass sound captured on a popular recording is still this one here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2zurZig4L8
In fairness: Probably aided to a large part by the fact that with ELP there was no guitar to get in the way of that 8-string sound! You can hear that Lake essentially "strums" that Alembic like an acoustic guitar for percussive effect (which sounds nice).
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ELP: nice sound!
Maybe it's even more the case with octave strings than with bass in general: you don't hear it, but you miss it when it's not there? I guess an 8-string can fill up the sound of a three piece band quite nicely.
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ELP was simply magnificent. It's spell binding to watch them.
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Not everything they did, but they got it right on this track which even found grace with its original composer Aaron Copland in the version they did. And playing at below zero temperatures in an empty stadium of course sums up ELP's testosterone-charged megalomania (which was both awesome and laughable at the same time) nicely. 8)
When I first saw that vid sometime in the seventies I thought it was the essence of rockstardom. :mrgreen: The desolate vastness of the stadium, their visible exhaled breath, the leather jackets and fur collars plus the controlled racket only three men made - all very impressive! :)
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Oh, and I like Rockpile too, but Nick Lowe even better!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn1CXbf2xF8
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Nice switchmaster!
It's beautiful. I'll buy one as soon as I win the lottery.
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And it goes to show that you don't really "hear" the double-octave characteristic of an 8 string bass (just like you don't "hear" it in almost all Cheap Trick songs) unless you dial in an extreme sound or play it with a lot of distortion/effects.
Yes, I tried using my 8 string on two tracks on my band's current EP. With saturated tones coming from both the guitar and violin, it just gets lost. This one starts and ends with the 8 string, and there's a little melodic solo at 3:00 where you can kind of hear it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJkYwvuC-RQ&index=4&list=PLbpbsy0q0ZaM2UwouLvfMliQ7XftjfHWo
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Another fine example of ELP and Lake with his 8 string. In my opinion, he really was a remarkable bass player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD9C1az9ZYc
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The more I watch that Rockpile video the more I feel a little sorry for them. They seem formed along earlier 'pub rock' lines so, after punk picked up and took over, they seem a bit tired looking. Four English blokes making music that has a vague American edge to it (which would annoy the punks) but perhaps not hard enough or technical enough for a rock audience.
I agree that Greg Lake was a remarkable player. Definitely one of the fastest and most precise pick players, choosing to use a tone that would have revealed every mistake, flaw and fluff. I'm not a big fan of that ultra-scooped Alembic tone, but I can always tell when it is him! He also had quite an unorthodox role in the band (do you need a bassist with Keith's synth battery?), but made himself heard!
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Ironically, I found his bass playing always perfunctory, technically perfect, but perfunctory! I hear nothing daring, happy-go-lucky and inspired like in Chris Squire's sonic Ric attacks in it. To me, Lake put all emotion in his voice (and his acoustic guitar playing), but not in his bass playing which was more of an afterthought to him. He was not "naturally over-busy, yet groovy" like Geddy Lee either, I always thought that his bass parts sounded like Keith Emerson wrote them out for him. A bit dead really.
I listen to a lot of ELP lately, but nothing Lake ever did on bass puts a grin on my face. He does what the overtly complex music requires and fills the space Emerson (50%) and Palmer (35%) left for him competently. That's not knocking him, I think that was kind of their mutual musical agreement right from the start, Lake (a guitarist at heart) did not join them to play bass, he played bass because the other two thought they needed a bass player for their trio concept.
I also hear none of the playfulness in Lake's playing that is so evident in what Jack Bruce does here (in a piece of music not entirely dissimilar to what ELP did):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hArxWwTVlXc
But I'm not saying that he is not an excellent technical player!
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The more I watch that Rockpile video the more I feel a little sorry for them. They seem formed along earlier 'pub rock' lines so, after punk picked up and took over, they seem a bit tired looking. Four English blokes making music that has a vague American edge to it (which would annoy the punks) but perhaps not hard enough or technical enough for a rock audience.
When I read Top 10 Dave Edmunds Songs (http://ultimateclassicrock.com/dave-edmunds-songs/) from earlier this year, this sentence jumped out at me: "Edmunds' roots date to the first wave of rock 'n' rollers like Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly and the Everly Brothers, and that's the place he's called home most often." That's why I like him so much, and if you understand that, it may help to understand his music better.
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One of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNUz4njCo8
Lowe's partly to blame for my Hamer fetish. A well deserved obsession, if I do say ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/vtEqmlL.jpg)
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Great video, Joe, hadn't seen that one. :thumbsup:
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One of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNUz4njCo8
Oh man, Herr Lowe got lucky he didn't get sued, what a blatant swipe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2QzJzqtK0
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ae/86/e2/ae86e25f5f5254990d4d881a69d4a45c.jpg)
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As far as best recorded 8-string sounds, I'd have to go with Achilles Last Stand, Spanish Castle Magic and You Got Me Floating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4KLOm7pO0&ab_channel=LedZeppelin-Topic
And here's the isolated bass for You Got Me Floatin': http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3yyjcg
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And here's the isolated bass for You Got Me Floatin': http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3yyjcg
Wow. Thanks.
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Am I the only one here that's seen them...?
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Wow. Thanks.
+1
Who played that Hendrix bass track?
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My guess is Jimi Hendrix himself.
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Could be.Bit there seems to be some spill on there from guitar and drums so it may have been done live.
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As far as I know, Noel Redding did play the bass to "You Got Me Floatin'". But Hendrix went back and rerecorded portions of the bass lines to "Spanish Castle Magic" and the final song on the Axis album--"Bold as Love." This is at least according to John McDermott. I think there are others, though, who disagree with this and claim Noel Redding played bass on the whole album.
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And it goes to show that you don't really "hear" the double-octave characteristic of an 8 string bass (just like you don't "hear" it in almost all Cheap Trick songs) unless you dial in an extreme sound or play it with a lot of distortion/effects. To my ears, the best 8 string bass sound captured on a popular recording is still this one here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2zurZig4L8
In fairness: Probably aided to a large part by the fact that with ELP there was no guitar to get in the way of that 8-string sound! You can hear that Lake essentially "strums" that Alembic like an acoustic guitar for percussive effect (which sounds nice).
Greg was great but I hate his squeaky clean eight string tone. John Entwistle had a much better sound with Alembic basses.
The reason you don't hear the 12-string bass on almost all Cheap Trick songs is because it isn't there. When it is, it is usually heard quite easily. For example "Gonna Raise Hell" (an 8-string) or lots of tracks on their excellent 1997 release "Cheap Trick". Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm71vrr9f88
(God I hate those synthetic horns. Ruins a great song).
I agree that the octave string bass is best when it has space or when it has a massive sound like Petersson and Entwistle had on stage, not to mention Doug Pinnick whose tone with the 4-string is almost the same. :) I've been doing duo gigs with a singer/guitarist who plays an acoustic with occasional effects. 12-string bass is a perfect tool for that setting.
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Yeah, that sounds like 8 string, also a little clumsy as 8-string often does (if you play rhythmic with it), you are just not as nimble with it even as an experienced bass player.
You dislike the synthetic horns, I disdain the totally wanton key changes (I heard three in the song, none of them good, smart or elegant)! It's something I largely blame Nielsen for. That and playing minor key solos where he should be playing major keys. He wouldn't have lasted long with a Southern Rock band.
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Speaking of the Ox, how about the "lead" part and solo on this one? (Sounds like there is a more conventional bass part overdubbed too). I'm not sure if there are other recorded examples of Entwistle on 8-string.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6fFtWi318s&list=RDv6fFtWi318s&t=25
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Succes Story is 8-string too?
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He basically plays rhythm guitar on Trick of the Light and if you asks me, his bass sounds like it too, like a slightly overdriven, middish baritone guitar. :-X
Je suis unexcited. The most redeeming aspect is Simon Phillips, the best drummer The Who ever had bar none. But I'm the first to admit that I prefer The Who's studio output to their live sound.
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Uh. The one I posted was a Keith Moon recording. Simon Philips was nowhere involved.
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"Success Story" is all bass, an 8-string Ric and a solo on a Fenderbird or Explorerbird.
Simon Phillips was probably the best drummer they had technically but I think even he would have admitted that nobody replaces Keith Moon. Which is a good thing too, the world isn't ready for another Moonie. :D
Phillips is superb on Pete's solo albums. Especially on "All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes".
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He wouldn't have lasted long with a Southern Rock band.
Maybe he does it on purpose. To save him from playing in a Southern Rock band. Just in case.
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Totally forgot about this one too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqQelCIGYMI&ab_channel=LedZeppelin-Topic
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"Simon Phillips was probably the best drummer they had technically ..."
SP has great chops, but you can't reduce him to just that, he is really dynamic on the drums, delicate in one moment, "CRASH!!! BANG!!! WALLOP!!!" in the next, he communicates with his drums to the music he hears in a way only Ginger Baker can (to be fair, I hear a lot of Ian Paice in SP too, that is why I found his drumming style on his sophomoric work with Judas Priest and the 1st David Coverdale solo album immediately appealing). He has heart and feeling in his playing and a very musicianly ear and enthusiasm.
Of course Moonie was an original, no one can take that away from him. It was Cozy Powell who once said about him: "Keith Moon wasn't really a very good drummer, live he was all over the place, the double bass drum was mainly show, but he contributed enormously to the perception of the rock drummer and we all thrive off that."
And when he died something died with The Who they could never resurrect. Kenny Jones - a fine drummer in his own comfort zone - was an incredibly ill choice as a replacement. JAE (for decades schooled to ignore what Moon did and get on with his bass playing instead) just played "over" Jones as if he were a drum machine.
Good as he is, SP one thing cannot: drum with a West Coast feel. Any version with him drumming the Rosanna intro makes me wince. For some reason, only the late Jeff P could do that right.
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Maybe he does it on purpose. To save him from playing in a Southern Rock band. Just in case.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTzv9ADlJzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zIkQ2qOeQc
One Explorer does not a Lynyrd Skynyrd make! 8)
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I will not be baited into discussing silly notions like Simon Philips being a good match for The Who :-o
Instead I will say thanks DMN for posting another great Zep track. I never realized there was 8-string on this album! I had assumed there were doubled guitar lines, but this makes much more sense sonically, and now I can't un-hear it :)
And of course well documented on the interwebs now that I'm looking: http://www.led-zeppelin.org/studio-and-live-gear/860
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"Simon Phillips was probably the best drummer they had technically ..."
SP has great chops, but you can't reduce him to just that
I don't and I really am a big fan of his playing. I don't care for Toto but I love his playing on for example "801 Live", Mike Rutherford's "A Smallcreep's Day", Gary Moore's "Back On The Streets" and the aforementioned Pete Townshend albums. "Give Blood" is an amazing drum track by him.
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Instead I will say thanks DMN for posting another great Zep track. I never realized there was 8-string on this album! I had assumed there were doubled guitar lines, but this makes much more sense sonically, and now I can't un-hear it :)
And of course well documented on the interwebs now that I'm looking: http://www.led-zeppelin.org/studio-and-live-gear/860
It's on "Achilles", "Nobody's Fault" and "Royal Orleans", am I right? I used to be sure that he used a Hagström HB8 on "Presence" but did he already had the Triple Omega by late '75? Anyway, a great sound.
EDIT: He did, I should have opened your link...
How about "Ozone Baby"? I think it's an 8-string or then he really cranked up the Alembic's high frequencies
And Chris Squire had very creative way to use an 8-string with Yes and on his solo album. This track features his potatohead Ric 8-string and a non-reverse T-Bird IV plus some doubleneck Gibson EB at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2WYvryNoZM
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Are you saying he had the triple omega for the recording? I thought it was the Hagstron, but could definitely be wrong. I love playing Hots On For Nowhere on 8 string. Not easy! In fact, there are tons of Zep riffs that work great on an 8. Black Dog is another.
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Are you saying he had the triple omega for the recording? I thought it was the Hagstron, but could definitely be wrong. I love playing Hots On For Nowhere on 8 string. Not easy! In fact, there are tons of Zep riffs that work great on an 8. Black Dog is another.
According to this it was:
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/studio-and-live-gear/860
But Jones also claimed he started to use roundwounds with all his basses in the late '60s but in the Guitar Player interview in 1977 he said he always used flats for his Jazz (and he did, just look and hear "The Song Remains The Same" flick) and even tried them on his Alembic but "they sort of killed it". So it's at least an 8-string on half of "Presence". :)
What's your verdict on "Ozone Baby", eight or four? Couldn't find a youtube link that worked so you have to walk to your cd/vinyl shelf and put "Coda" on. :D
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I love playing Hots On For Nowhere on 8 string. Not easy! In fact, there are tons of Zep riffs that work great on an 8. Black Dog is another.
I love how "Presence" is mixed, at least for "Royal Orleans" and "Nobody's Fault". When you turn down the other channel you can almost hear Jones and Bonham exclusively (playing with Plant, of course).
And I agree with the riffs, lots of good stuff for an 8 or 12. With a dropped-D tuning "Kashmir" works great. Especially Kevin Gilbert's amazing version.
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I like Simon Phillips' contribution to the first MSG album too.
Feels like a good thing has a great drum part.
He's a very musical drummer, not just a time keeper.
He plays melodies with his toms/kettles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WG2HNhLRK8
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I like Simon Phillips' contribution to the first MSG album too.
Feels like a good thing has a great drum part.
He's a very musical drummer, not just a time keeper.
He plays melodies with his toms/kettles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WG2HNhLRK8
Agreed. Always been a fan.
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What's your verdict on "Ozone Baby", eight or four? Couldn't find a youtube link that worked so you have to walk to your cd/vinyl shelf and put "Coda" on. :D
I'm gonna say 8 string on that track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalwvSFPOiU
Another classic 8 string tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX8GAOlV_DM&list=PLwDqESxar1CaSpDjsZK-O-cExa4nmZwsG
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I like Simon Phillips' contribution to the first MSG album too.
Feels like a good thing has a great drum part.
He's a very musical drummer, not just a time keeper.
He plays melodies with his toms/kettles.
And some people hate him for just that, but I like it too! Yeah, the drumming on the MSG debut was excellent (forgot to mention that album), lightyears from what Andy Parker did and could have done. Priest's Sin After Sin, David Coverdale's debut and MSG's first offering were all Roger Glover production jobs (they all sound like him too) and he was the one to recommend Simon Phillips every time. Needless to say he plays great on Roger Glover's Oldfield'esque Elements solo album (which came out around the same time) too.