The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: slinkp on September 11, 2017, 07:15:22 AM

Title: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: slinkp on September 11, 2017, 07:15:22 AM
I did not know this was a thing.
https://reverb.com/item/6071678-a-rare-early-1970-s-epiphone-long-scale-sg-eb-3-by-the-japanese-antoria_ibanez-fujigen-factory

So it's an Ibanez-made bass illegally using the Epiphone logo for a bass Epiphone never made? Confusing. Wonder why they didn't go all the way and use a Gibson logo!
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Dave W on September 11, 2017, 07:44:37 AM
I did not know this was a thing.
https://reverb.com/item/6071678-a-rare-early-1970-s-epiphone-long-scale-sg-eb-3-by-the-japanese-antoria_ibanez-fujigen-factory

So it's an Ibanez-made bass illegally using the Epiphone logo for a bass Epiphone never made? Confusing. Wonder why they didn't go all the way and use a Gibson logo!

No, nothing illegal about it, and not Ibanez-made. There's no "Antoria_Ibanez FujiGen Factory," it's just FujiGen. Ibanez is a brand name owned by Hoshino, FujiGen is a factory that made most of their instruments for years, but the two companies aren't related. FujiGen also made some instruments for Epiphone, Antoria, Greco, and other brands back then.

The comments in italics that claim it's an Ibanez are dead wrong.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Basvarken on September 11, 2017, 07:53:29 AM
I don't think it is an Epiphone. As far as I know Epiphone never made slothead EB basses like that.

Looks like the headstock was refinished black and the Epiphone decal was added.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: 66Atlas on September 11, 2017, 08:56:05 AM
I've seen that bass branded as "Electra".  I would agree someone probably resprayed the headstock and put on an Epiphone logo to give it some Gibson family credibility.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Granny Gremlin on September 11, 2017, 09:11:22 AM
I don't think it is an Epiphone. As far as I know Epiphone never made slothead EB basses like that.

Looks like the headstock was refinished black and the Epiphone decal was added.

I am with you.

The bridge pup and bridge itself are what were used on cheap knock off hos - I would like to think that Epiphone would have had a 3 point and minibucker with only 1 row of pole pieces, but we have seen lower end (ho-like) hardware and bolt on necks on some Epis from that period,m so there is a sliver of possibility that this is legit (but if so it was a prototype that didn't go to production, and I would be very skeptical).  Case in point: the EA-260 (http://www.maindragmusic.com/media/big/27143_00.jpg).





Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: slinkp on September 11, 2017, 09:54:15 AM
The bridge on this slothead looks terrible.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Pilgrim on September 11, 2017, 10:06:22 AM
The bridge on this slothead looks terrible.

No kidding!!

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--HarQQLjZ--/c_crop,h_1.000,w_0.665,x_0.161,y_0.000/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1500670735/i6lqvdtwrn5eeqj2v50e.jpg)
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Granny Gremlin on September 11, 2017, 10:45:45 AM
the worst of both worlds
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Basvarken on September 11, 2017, 10:48:49 AM
Bridge does look terrible indeed. And so does the rest.
Clumsy thumbrest.
And that fake mudbucker is typical for the cheaper seventies rubbish that the lesser Japanese brands built. These looks almost square instead of rectangular. And the polepieces aren't screws.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Dave W on September 11, 2017, 02:58:26 PM
I don't think it is an Epiphone. As far as I know Epiphone never made slothead EB basses like that.

Looks like the headstock was refinished black and the Epiphone decal was added.

I've seen that bass branded as "Electra".  I would agree someone probably resprayed the headstock and put on an Epiphone logo to give it some Gibson family credibility.

It's not resprayed. Look at the last headstock pic. It's no shinier than the body and has the same aging.

There were a number of 70s Epis that were Japan market only. There wouldn't be a reason to put a fake decal on anyway, an Epi from that era wouldn't be worth more than an Ibanez.

But Electra? Aha! Thanks for the tip. Most Electras were made by Matsumoku back then. Most Epi solidbodies were too, and some Ibanez were. Look at this Electra EB-3 (https://www.talkbass.com/threads/new-price-70s-electra-matsumoku-eb-3-tri-tone-2261.1226523/).
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Basvarken on September 11, 2017, 06:57:10 PM
I Wouldn't be so sure about that headstock Dave.
First of all there is orange peel. Normally you wouldn't see any of that on original paint.

Second, the face is black. The original is not. Why would they have decided to change that on their copies? The Japanese copied features like that quite slavishly.

The ageing is no proof at all. If the refin was done in the eighties the lacquer had plenty of time to age.

The only thing that is really confusing is the Epiphone logo.
But it is too obviously not a Gibson to put a Gibson logo on. So maybe the person who did this figured it was more credible to put Epiphone on. Still a major upgrade to the other crap from that age...
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Dave W on September 11, 2017, 09:45:10 PM
The Ibanez and Electra do have black face headstocks like this one. And this one has the identical two-saddle bridge as the Electra.

I don't think what you're seeing is orange peel. No evidence of it in the other two headstock pics. There's a lot of reflected light in these pics anyway. The face doesn't look newer than the rest of the finish.

I'll stick with my assessment.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: amptech on September 11, 2017, 10:31:37 PM
Although I'm not sure what to think, it certainly looks like orange peel in that first pic. That does not prove anyting, but in the second headstock pic the black seems sanded through right on the slot edge - even on the side where no strings rub against the edge. Does not prove anything either, but getting the headstock uniformly black on top without sanding through the paint edge is not easy. On the last gibson headstock I shot, I think I used nine layers of black before sanding. And at least nine clearcoats on top of that. Just observing here, dont claim anything.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: 66Atlas on September 12, 2017, 05:54:15 AM
To me it looked like a sloppy tape job on the edges of the headstock, especially inside the slots wher black had leeched into to where it shouldnt have been.  Granted that could have been amaturish from the factory.  But the more disturbing thing to me is I've never seen an Epiphone headstock logo with a (R) Registered trademark at the end of it.  Especially on 70's instruments that could well have been made in the same factory.   That to me reeks of pulling a logo off the internet and making a decal out of it. 

All that and the fact he's asking twice what an electra would sell for gives me the heebie-jeebies.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: veebass on September 12, 2017, 06:58:22 PM
No kidding!!

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--HarQQLjZ--/c_crop,h_1.000,w_0.665,x_0.161,y_0.000/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1500670735/i6lqvdtwrn5eeqj2v50e.jpg)

The same bridge used on my Ibanez Flying V Bass. Probably the same pickups as well.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: Dave W on September 12, 2017, 09:54:43 PM
To me it looked like a sloppy tape job on the edges of the headstock, especially inside the slots wher black had leeched into to where it shouldnt have been.  Granted that could have been amaturish from the factory.  But the more disturbing thing to me is I've never seen an Epiphone headstock logo with a (R) Registered trademark at the end of it.  Especially on 70's instruments that could well have been made in the same factory.   That to me reeks of pulling a logo off the internet and making a decal out of it. 

All that and the fact he's asking twice what an electra would sell for gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Putting an Epiphone logo on an Electra bass would be like putting an Agile logo on a Squier. It doesn't make sense. Besides, if this was a Japan-only item, who knows what different logos they may have used. And even if it is a replacement, there's still no reason to believe that it wasn't an Epi to begin with, especially since most Epis were made in the same factory as the Electras.

https://reverb.com/item/1834041-1972-electra-tri-tone-2261-bass
https://reverb.com/item/775575-vintage-1970-s-electra-eb-3-lawsuit-bass-guitar-w-gig-bag-made-in-japan
https://reverb.com/item/1027439-vintage-late-60-s-early-70-s-crown-eb-3-style-bass-teisco-electra (Crown brand - same bass)

Notice that all three are "listing ended" which means they didn't sell, despite being priced lower than the current listing.
Title: Re: Ibanez epiphone slothead?
Post by: 66Atlas on September 13, 2017, 04:46:42 AM
Well, I'd say the seller has reasons to think an "epiphone" branded bass is worth well more than an Electra or Crown which is exactly why someone would be motived to change the logo.   A few hours worth of work and at $200 bass is on reverb for $650 (originally $800)  Whether he's the one who paid too much for it or he's the one who changed it he's looking to sell it for 3X what an electra would sell for.  If he was asking $200 (which is all its worth either way) then I'd be inclinded to agree with you.  But the effort he puts into marketing it as a legit "rare" bass calls the thing into question.