The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: 66Atlas on June 20, 2017, 05:33:53 AM
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I recently finished my project of replacing the newel posts, ballusters and handrails in our house; something I've never attempted before. After completing it I can say I wouldnt wish this project on my worst enemy. I originally thought it would only take a couple weeks but ended up being almost 4 months start to finish (Weekends, Holidays and a couple "sick" days). That was for 12 posts, 130 iron ballusters and new handrails. TBH the project was delayed a couple weeks after I ran a miter saw halfway through my thumbnail, luckily stopping just as I knicked the bone.
Assuming no one will actually want to see a photo of my handywork I'll post a picture that people around here may actually be interested in. The stair work makes for a nice backdrop I think ;D
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170618_112428_zpsj5jorgyk.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170618_112428_zpsj5jorgyk.jpg.html)
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I don't see any handrails at all!!??? Great collection of Lo-Z basses! I wasn't aware that any of the LBO brothers had an original LP Sig Bass with the oval pickup. Rarer than hens teeth!
(Good job on the rails also).
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Nice!
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Thanks! the staircase work really came out nice but I'll never do it again :o
The LP signature is a recent acquisition so I dont think I've posted anything about it since I got it last mo. I really wanted one after I first saw Rob post pictures a year ago. The 3 position switch in it was bad when I got it and had to replace that. The pots and transformer all had 1970 date codes on them and their are some handrwitten numbers (400/200) on a piece of masking tape inside the pickup. The pickup isnt a stacked humbucker like the '69 and Triumph, it appears to be the same as the later square humbucker winding imbedded in the round case. I'll post some pictures I took later, You can tell it's different because it only fills the round case about halfway up. I guess that would be consistent with the advertising calling it a "new design" pickup from the start.
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Great collection of Lo-Z basses! I wasn't aware that any of the LBO brothers had an original LP Sig Bass with the oval pickup. Rarer than hens teeth!
Wow!
+1 !
Please do share more pics!
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Even though I've never seen one in person, I think they used the same guitar version stacked Low Impedance Humbucker in both the guitar & the bass. They have only two wires instead of eight. When they changed to the rectangular version, the same pickup was used for both guitar, (neck & bridge), & bass. Here is a photo I posted a few years ago showing both sizes next to each other.
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/GibsonBassPickups.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/GibsonBassPickups.jpg.html)
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/LPSigBroch_zpscnjpiypb.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/LPSigBroch_zpscnjpiypb.jpg.html)
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I had to run off to a meeting or I would have posted this earlier. - I really hate it when work gets in the way of my internet time.
I had suspected that it was the stacked humbucker out of the guitar too, but it doenst appear to be - at least based on what I've seen of them.
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170608_192520_zpsxprhhw5y.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170608_192520_zpsxprhhw5y.jpg.html)
The reason I say that is I thought that the stacked humbuckers filled the case to the brim, this one appears to only take up about half of the housing. Also it has what appears to be a rectangular magnet across the base of the windings. There is also a solder terminal for 3 wires (2 from the windings and one to ground) that looks similar to what I've seen on the back of the later signature pickups.
I naturally have to run off to another meeting now - stupid work - but will post a few more pictures this afternoon.
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You're right. That is NOT the same as the LoZ guitar stacked humbucker; those would fill the white (usually black; gold on the L6-S) plastic cover to the bottom and had wired leads vs those 3 solder terminals. Interesting. Perhaps it is just the square pickup in a different chassis. This is great cause I don't think we have ever seen one of these earlier ones before and weren't even sure any existed beyond those catalog photos.
Also, nice to see another formerly-white now pee pee yellow Triumph. :toast:
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Lovely basses!
Nice handiwork too!
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Here's another picture of the inside edge of the pickup. It's hard to tell from my crappy photo but the lower corner of the masking tape is actually imbedded in the top of the black epoxy so I'm assumming it's original to the pickup. Any ideas what the 400/200 means? I know nothing about these pickups, just makes for an interesting puzzle. If I ever take it out again I should really put a meter on it and see what it reads.
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170608_202846_zpswmfjgzho.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170608_202846_zpswmfjgzho.jpg.html)
Oh, and a couple more beauty shots.
The dual outputs:
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170618_112545_zps0l3b8m75.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170618_112545_zps0l3b8m75.jpg.html)
Headstock "Les Paul Model"
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170618_112501_zpsc22xngvp.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170618_112501_zpsc22xngvp.jpg.html)
And thanks for the compliments Guys & Gals :thumbsup:
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Interesting!! That's pretty much identical to the rectangular pickup. I wonder if Bill Lawrence just used an existing pickup case for the first production models while they were waiting for the rectangular pickup case mold to be built?
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/DSC08760_zps0998d848.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/DSC08760_zps0998d848.jpg.html)
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I've always presumed the cream coloured oval pickup (in the early LP Sig) was the size of the guitar lo-z oval pickup.
And looking at the stairway pic I still think it is.
But that would make the pickup too narrow to make two (regular) coils sit next to each other.
So I have a hard time believing the rectangular pickup and the oval pickup are the same with just a different casing.
Maybe it is a stacked humbucker after all? With two rather shallow coils on top of each other?
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You may well be right Rob. The case if definitely smaller than the bass version in my Triumph and '69. The outside dimension is around 1 1/8" and maybe a little over an inch inside which is way too small for a full sized humbucker if that's what the later signature pickups are. It may even be too small for a firebird style mini-bucker. The presence of what looks like a flat rectangular magnet on the back is what made me think of a traditional humbucker design but it may well be something else.
I suppose I could try to sprinkle some metal filings over the face of the pickup to see if a magnetic field pattern appears? Short of a xray I cant think of another way to tell for sure.
Whatever it is it sound good! 8)
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Could the rectangular case be significantly larger than the actual pickup coils? Look at the location of the solder strip on both versions. On the oval pickup, it's close to the edge. On the rectangular pickup, it's in a ways................
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Here's another picture of the inside edge of the pickup. It's hard to tell from my crappy photo but the lower corner of the masking tape is actually imbedded in the top of the black epoxy so I'm assumming it's original to the pickup. Any ideas what the 400/200 means? I know nothing about these pickups, just makes for an interesting puzzle. If I ever take it out again I should really put a meter on it and see what it reads.
Yeah, please do - this is interesting! That tape/scribble looks the same as on a supposed protoytype les paul guitar pickup I have.
If there is a tap on the coil, maybe you have 200/400 ohms?
I find the stu-mac 'polarity pen' a great tool for quick checking - but even holding a nail or something over the pickup will tell you if you have one or two poles.
MMMMM...white pickup.... they look soooo good!
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I love a good mystery. Where is Angela Fletcher when I need her.
I had assumed that the two leads were the finish of two coil windings, I would think I would need one more wire to have a true coil tap correct? I'm no expert on pickup wiring and probably know only enough to be dangerous.
Wouldnt 400 ohms be way to high for a lo-z pickup? for some reason I thought I the stock pickups were well under 100 ohms. I did wonder if it was some sort of reference to the number of windings, 200 per coil, 400 overall? I does look like it's a heavier gauge wire coming off the coil but even then 200 seems kind of low for a number of wraps.
I'll look into that stewmac polarity pen, If I have a little time this weekend I may pull the pickup out again just to have a better look at it and test it's actual rating.
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Any ideas what the 400/200 means?
DC resistence maybe? 3 terminals/wires out of the pickup = 2 hot (vs 3 hot taps like on the original LP Bass pickup) + cold/ground. 400 and 200Ohms seems about right compared to both the original bass pickups DCR(s) and the labeling on the control plate of the LPSig (50, 200 and 500)....
http://archive.gibson.com/Files/schematics/LPSig.Bass.PDF
hmmmn, nope, the 3rd lead is the magnet ground (vs signal ground). Measure the DCR of that thing - is it even LoZ? The LoZ output seems to be all going through the transformer with 3 taps corresponding to the knob options, while the pickup direct to the second jack appears to be the HiZ out. Also, the way the pickup is drawn it may be a single coil (which would explain why it doesn't take up all the space inside that cover). Gibson did sometimes draw humbuckers as a single coil but not anywhere else I recall seeing where they also drew the poles and the magnet in - if they were lazy there were proper lazy. This said, that original pickup could have been a completely different animal from the later rectangular one represented by the schematic.
Pickups , switches, and transformer are all the same parts on the bass and the guitar versions (guitar schem: http://archive.gibson.com/Files/schematics/LPSignature.PDF ).
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Gibson literature lists the pickups a humbuckers, but I've run into conflicting info before.
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/LPSig%20Tag4_zps9xf49tvh.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/LPSig%20Tag4_zps9xf49tvh.jpg.html)
I bought two NOS Gibson Marauder bridge pickups because they look like a smaller version of the Les Paul Recording pickups. Half of the info I came across, much of it Gibson advertising, described them as humbuckers. Schematics & some of the descriptions list them as single coils, three times as powerful as many of the single coils on the market at the time. The Marauder & Les Paul Signature were marketed about the same time & Bill Lawrence is said to have designed the pickups for both.
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/Maurader%20PU_zpsn2pb5gds.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/Maurader%20PU_zpsn2pb5gds.jpg.html)
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That's a really rare Sig you've got (staircase looks great also). I searched like crazy (with no luck) to find an actual customer specimen besides the promo bass when I bought this pickup:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/doombass/Gibson/LPsigpup5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/doombass/Gibson/LPsigpup4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/doombass/Gibson/LPsigpup6.jpg)
From this thread: http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=570.0 (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=570.0)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/doombass/Gibson/LPsigpup4.jpg)
And that is exactly why the thought these had the standard LP Rec pups in them (this is one, I would wager); I remember that thread now.
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170608_202846_zpswmfjgzho.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170608_202846_zpswmfjgzho.jpg.html)
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n614/tlkroon/IMG_20170608_192520_zpsxprhhw5y.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/tlkroon/media/IMG_20170608_192520_zpsxprhhw5y.jpg.html)
This one here is not the same pickup though (and the colour of the epoxy is the least significant of the differences ;P). Interesting transition between the original pickup and the eventual square one (nevermind the Epi JC Sig which, again, looks the same as the LP Sig but I doubt is on the inside). ... in fact, I could not see this before, but that small rectangular impression there in the second pic (that I can now see on my monitor at home) seems curiously similar in size/shape to the bobbins for the G3/S1 pickups (the LP Rec pups had ovular bobbins whose flanges were sized to fit those covers better - we've seen those NOS on ebay and they often poke out of the epoxy a bit in bits; the white epoxy one is one of the cleanest I have seen aside from Les's original prototypes which have no covers, I doubt it was mass produced in the same way; could be the only one )... and the square LP Sig pup was a Bill Lawrence design you say (just like the G3/S1)... maybe a single coil after all. Really curious about DCR now.
The only similarities between LP Rec and G3/S1 pups I know of: blade pole pieces and used on both guitar as well as bass models (and they didn't suck in either application).