The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Chris P. on May 02, 2017, 02:00:38 AM

Title: Flying V Bass
Post by: Chris P. on May 02, 2017, 02:00:38 AM
No Gibson content, so please remove to 'Other Bass Brands' if needed, but I still thought this was the right place.

http://eastwoodcustoms.com/projects/eastwood-flying-bv/

Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 02, 2017, 02:25:50 AM
Looks cheap (ish)
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Chris P. on May 02, 2017, 02:28:51 AM
The picture is a mock up. All Eastwoods I tried were okay.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 02, 2017, 02:57:08 AM
I know but the choice of components looks cheap to me. The bridge, the tuners, the pickups. None of these would seduce me to want one.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Chris P. on May 02, 2017, 03:29:20 AM
But how can you see from a mock up?

I have soms cons and pros:

Pros: It has a gigbag (try finding one will be hard) and the fact they use a Mini Humbucker & Single Coil Blade seems that they thought about things.

Cons: Fender bridges are okay, but it looks wrong on a Gibson style bass. And it's bolt-on. With a set neck it would be more ttractive, I guess. Maybe it's better with a bolt on-neck. Who knows.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 02, 2017, 04:41:58 AM
But how can you see from a mock up?

A proper mock up shows the right components (not necessarily in the right dimensions, angle, light, etc). Otherwise it's just a rough idea / sketch
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 02, 2017, 07:19:44 AM
The one Eastwood I tried was a Höfner Club copy that looked great but sounded awful. That was 10 years ago, hopefully they have improved since then.

You have to give them credit for offering "custom shop" models if enough people will commit to buying.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 02, 2017, 11:28:44 AM
A short-scale Flying V is self-defeating. The only reason why people come up with that unholy combination is to reduce overall size of the instrument. A long scale Flying V bass case will even make an Explorer one look small. It also beats me why anybody choosing a Flying V bass - in 9 out of 10 cases he/she will be playing hard to heavy rock/metal - would want a short scale.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Chris P. on May 03, 2017, 07:06:56 AM
Amen, haha! Or Kinks fans?



Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 03, 2017, 07:22:02 AM
Amen, haha! Or Kinks fans?

Why would Kinks fans care? Because Dave Davies once used a V for a few gigs and appeared with it on an album cover? Or did Pete Quaife ever use one?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Alanko on May 03, 2017, 11:58:45 AM
I think it is hard to say how these will come out. Eastwood is just the importers, really, and presumably make use of a number of factories to produce whatever they require. Their idea of using crowd funding to have small runs of obscure instruments made up is quite cool. They've brought back some extinct designs this way. Having said that their Gibson RD recreation looks a little odd:

(https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--WoybSTsO--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1466181680/jypaeh3txolpxqywom9v.jpg)

I've not played Eastwood stuff for a while, but from what I remember it was a bit pricey for the quality. Presumably you're paying for the fact that they bothered to get some '60s designs made up. They also take liberties with the original designs. The worst offender was an Ovation Magnum replica that wound up with a mudbucker, some sort of Burns-style single coil and a cheap Gotoh 201-style bridge:

(http://www.myrareguitars.com/guitar-pictures/eastwood-magnum-electric-bass-guitar-sunburst-02.jpg)

They put the effort into making sure the bodies are sort of the correct shape, but then cut corners with the hardware.


Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 03, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
Why would Kinks fans care? Because Dave Davies once used a V for a few gigs and appeared with it on an album cover? Or did Pete Quaife ever use one?

At least in TV shows you saw Dave play that Flying V a lot at the time - idiosyncratically with his strumming arm between the two wings!

(http://raydavies.fr.yuku.com/attach/ma/post-2-1342647355.jpg)

(http://www.flying-v.ch/players/daviesd/kinks59.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/88/6a/b2/886ab257d49d301a0c66a926b801876a.jpg)

(http://ronkanefiles.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/kinks_new.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxmzzoYm2NAn2Sv_YmGAdDjgN_l3vh3GBoi4AzfbyIHGM1ewoq)

I don't know whether he used it much live, but it doesn't look like he's given up on it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHluk3HUwAEc82f.jpg)


Flying Vs are not per se bad-sounding guitars, sort of the Gibson Telecaster. With their thinner and snappier sound they don't clutter everything up like, say, a Les Paul would. It was the guys from Accept who said that their use of two Flying Vs was originally inspired by their attempt to get the leanest sound possible and "cut the fat" - no other combination worked as well, they said - and only by coincidence became their visual trademark later on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ddx_urDPJA
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: FrankieTbird on May 03, 2017, 03:31:20 PM

Flying Vs are not per se bad-sounding guitars, sort of the Gibson Telecaster. With their thinner and snappier sound they don't clutter everything up like, say, a Les Paul would. It was the guys from Accept who said that their use of two Flying Vs was originally inspired by their attempt to get the leanest sound possible and "cut the fat" - no other combination worked as well, they said - and only by coincidence became their visual trademark later on.



Flying Vee = Michael Schenker
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 03, 2017, 04:23:52 PM
Zät and zöse bööts natürlich!!! Goozestep, goozestep pleeeze, can't you see ze SS I'm in?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/57/3f/c2/573fc26c4e1f944de46597a3791f9be8.jpg)

Michael's weak bladder could not always be hidden on stage either:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/76/04/b6/7604b699ffaa072fa5e0ad0a679c3dd4.jpg)

But waitaminnit ... when did Pete Way turn into a giraffe?

Honorary mention: Michael's long lost twin brother KK:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0b/91/d5/0b91d5524e80cfd31a8980c265fd9770.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 03, 2017, 05:05:04 PM
At least in TV shows you saw Dave play that Flying V a lot at the time - idiosyncratically with his strumming arm between the two wings!

...

All lip-synced performances, AFAIK. He picked it up midway on their first US tour and used it for several TV show tapings but it's not even certain he used it live on the rest of the tour or any time after that. He did say he used it on a couple of album cuts. But he has a list of his significant guitars on his website and the V isn't included.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 04, 2017, 01:15:38 AM
Quote
Flying Vs are not per se bad-sounding guitars, sort of the Gibson Telecaster. With their thinner and snappier sound they don't clutter everything up like, say, a Les Paul would.

To my ears a Flying V doesn't sound thin or snappy at all.
I think it sounds very resonant, almost to the point of how a hollow body sounds.
And to my ears it has a bit of a nasal sound.


Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 04, 2017, 06:54:39 AM
Right. Very thin and snappy.  :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhX1lfWZaNw
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 04, 2017, 08:33:28 AM
I agree with the nasal tone (that is also an issue it creates when a bass has that shape),it has a middish characteristic, but in heavy metal too much bass with the guitars only gets in the way. And Lonnie Mack does sound snappy to me, not Telecaster-snappy, but imagine this played with a Les Paul. "Thinner and snappier" meant "thinner and snappier than a Les Paul" for Chrisssakes, but not as sharp as a Tele or Strat! As usual, I am being consciously/intentionally misunderstood by people who should know better!  :mrgreen:

And I understand the hollow-body comparison too, Rob, I hear even an acoustic note to the tone, just listen to Andy Powell here and especially his break at 4:57:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZgbmGazRE0

Ah my long memory ... Many Moons ago, Rob chastized me in this forum of fora for having the nerve to insinuate that his beloved Thin Lizzy had been inspired by "boring" (so he thinks) Wishbone Ash for their twin-guitar lead sound. I was confronted with the statement that Eric Bell had already doubled thirds on Whiskey in the Jar, when Thin Lizzy were still a trio. For the benefit of historic accuracy: I only recently read an Eric Bell interview where he stated that he was dragged by Phil Lynott to a Wishbone Ash concert in the early seventies and that Lynott watched the band mesmerized ("Argus" had just been declared "album of the year" by Melody Maker and Phil Lynott was always fashion- and trend-conscious) only to ask Bell after the gig bright-eyed "Fancy getting a second lead guitarist and doing that too, huh?" to which Bell replied unimpressed: "Not really!" We all know what happened not much later.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 04, 2017, 11:23:43 AM
We're completely off the Eastwood V Bass now. We're waiting for you to connect the dots to Blackmore.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 04, 2017, 03:07:16 PM
If you - sigh! - insist, Dave: Blackmore got WA their recording contract at the time when Andy Powell, the Flying V guitarist, aped Blackmore's riffs and solos in good humour at a joint soundcheck (WA opening for DP). Blackmore didn't say a word at the time, but gave former (first three albums) DP producer Derek Lawrence a call. Lawrence invited WA, liked what he heard and offered to procure a record deal for them if they paid a 1st class ticket to the US for him. Desperate as they were and skint to boot, they took up loans from their mothers and friends and bought him an economy ticket, all they could afford, no one of them had ever flown. Their friends were already laughing how they had been duped when Lawrence finally returned from the US with an international deal from MCA in his suitcase. WA stayed with that record company for 10 years. Those were the days ...
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 04, 2017, 03:21:03 PM
All that said, I am of course of the opinion that the way the Flying V shape affects a guitar's sound bears relevance for a Flying V bass too and is perhaps the main reason why you see a lot more guitarists with Flying Vs than bassists. I severely doubt that Eastwood's offering will change that much though I happily admit that I was open-mouthed with awe and nearly creamed in my pants when I saw my first Flying V bass - an Ibanez - circa 1977/78 with local (Darmstadt) covers band "Little Johnny & The Rock Boys". I was near to storming the stage and stealing the darn thing from the bassist!  :mrgreen: Some 10 years ago, I compensated and bought me a shabby specimen and had it lovingly resurrected. Not a great bass but a memorable first love!
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 04, 2017, 08:49:03 PM
No doubt in my mind that body shape does affect tone. A V sure doesn't sound like a Les Paul. It stands to reason that a V shaped bass would sound different than a conventional body shape with the same woods, pickups and scale length.

Warmoth used to offer a long scale V Bass body. Tom Ray, the original bassist of the Bottle Rockets, had one (with a Fender neck). It looked enormous.

Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 05, 2017, 06:57:44 AM
If you - sigh! - insist, Dave: Blackmore got WA their recording contract at the time when Andy Powell, the Flying V guitarist, aped Blackmore's riffs and solos in good humour at a joint soundcheck (WA opening for DP). Blackmore didn't say a word at the time, but gave former (first three albums) DP producer Derek Lawrence a call. Lawrence invited WA, liked what he heard and offered to procure a record deal for them if they paid a 1st class ticket to the US for him. Desperate as they were and skint to boot, they took up loans from their mothers and friends and bought him an economy ticket, all they could afford, no one of them had ever flown. Their friends were already laughing how they had been duped when Lawrence finally returned from the US with an international deal from MCA in his suitcase. WA stayed with that record company for 10 years. Those were the days ...

LOL! You asked for it Dave!
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 05, 2017, 08:33:10 AM
LOL! You asked for it Dave!

Yes I did!  :mrgreen: He was going to get there eventually, might as well speed up the process.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 05, 2017, 11:30:19 AM
Quote
I only recently read an Eric Bell interview where he stated that he was dragged by Phil Lynott to a Wishbone Ash concert in the early seventies and that Lynott watched the band mesmerized ("Argus" had just been declared "album of the year" by Melody Maker and Phil Lynott was always fashion- and trend-conscious) only to ask Bell after the gig bright-eyed "Fancy getting a second lead guitarist and doing that too, huh?" to which Bell replied unimpressed: "Not really!" We all know what happened not much later.

Okay here some alternative facts for you Uwe:

Eric Bell couldn't handle the rock n roll lifestyle that Thin Lizzy was living.
He got himself into a mess and the low point was a home coming gig in Belfast. Prior to the gig he had downed three bottles of brandy and he was so drunk he couldn't complete the gig. He stumbled off stage half way during the gig, leaving Lynott and Downey as a two piece to finish the gig. Bell never returned to the band.
Gary Moore was flown in from London to complete the Irish tour (unrehearsed) and to do a flurry of gigs in England after that. They even cut a few tracks with Moore during this period (among which Still In Love With You). But despite several attempts from Lynott and the management, Moore refused to join the band for good, leaving the band as a two piece once again.
Lynott was so fed up with guitarists quitting the band at crucial times that he decided to get two guitarists instead of just one.
From the authorised biography by Graeme Thomson: "The next time one of those cunts walks out there will be another one there. I'm not going to be caught out again"

When they auditioned for guitarists Robertson joined first and two weeks later they found Gorham. In the early days of this line-up Robertson took the lead role and Gorham was more of the rhythm guitarist. In early recordings of the Robertson/Gorham line-up you can see/hear that the twin-guitar sound hadn't settled at all.
It really took them a while (about two albums) to find that sound. It was definitely not a matter of "hey guys listen to Wishbone Ash and copy their sound.


Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: uwe on May 09, 2017, 09:48:22 AM
Rob, you can't live in denial forever!  :mrgreen: But I accept that Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson didn't initially have the chops (or better: musical theory) to ape WA correctly!  8) Tony Visconti is on record for saying that even as late as Black Rose, Gary Moore would spend hours in the studio patiently showing Scott Gorham harmony leads to what Moore had come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxMpCKzReIA

***

" The next album 'Fighting' in 1975 saw Lizzy's style develop further with the harmonised guitar-lines of Gorham and Robertson backed up with power-chord rhythm work. As Scott recalls: 'Wishbone Ash had done the twin guitar thing before us, but we took the idea and put it into a hard rock context, with more aggression.' "

***

https://books.google.de/books?id=60Jde3l7WNwC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=Phil+Lynott+Wishbone+Ash&source=bl&ots=x6XizpUY-m&sig=ke9l-sqwCdvhlxiSr30eSr46OoU&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ4Nu3ouPTAhWBULwKHdvcCYgQ6AEIVTAG#v=onepage&q=Phil%20Lynott%20Wishbone%20Ash&f=false

***

"For more than 45 years, Wishbone Ash, in it’s many incarnations, has traveled the globe delivering music that blends equal parts blues and English Folk traditions while keeping itself firmly rooted in the Progressive Rock and psychedelic era from whence it came. The band’s distinctive twin lead guitar attack was an unplanned stroke of genius and this powerful melodic technique was borrowed and updated by countless bands including Thin Lizzy and Iron Maiden."

***

"At this point, guitarist Eric Bell departed, feeling, after the hit with ‘Whiskey In The Jar’, that the band were becoming too commercial for his liking, and for the first of numerous occasions, Belfast born blues guitarist Gary Moore became a temporary replacement. Mr Moore and Mr Lynott were old buddies, Phil having briefly played in Moore’s band Skid Row in the late 1960s. Gary Moore remained until Lynott made what would be the decisive change for the band – he was replaced not by 1, but 2 guitarists, Brian Robertson from Glasgow and Californian Scott Gorham and thus arrived the famous twin-harmony guitar frontline, so much copied in later years, becoming a power-metal trademark. Gorham says the two guitarists clicked immediately but admits that there was no grand plan and the sound came about purely by accident. (While Lizzy’s twin-harmony guitar frontline was highly influential it was by no means their own creation, previously featuring in bands such as Fleetwood Mac and particularly, Wishbone Ash, though in retrospect, Lizzy seem to receive most of the credit – probably due to their commercial success)."

***



Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 09, 2017, 11:27:03 AM
I accept that Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson didn't initially have the chops (or better: musical theory) to ape WA correctly!  8) Tony Visconti is on record for saying that even as late as Black Rose, Gary Moore would spend hours in the studio patiently showing Scott Gorham harmony leads to what Moore had come up with.


Haha, Robertson was an uppity little git when he joined Thin Lizzy for sure.  But he was a talented and classically schooled one too. At a very young age he was a prodigy child getting cello lessons and piano lessons. I'm quite sure his theoretical knowledge of music was more than proficient.

And, technically spoken Moore (as a stand in for Bell) was not replaced by Robertson and Gorham. Thin Lizzy toured Germany with two guitarists prior to that. John (Du) Cann and Andy Gee. Phil obviously was dead serious when he said he would never be caught out again.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: mc2NY on May 18, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
Man, that is the one shape that I just cannot get used to. I had a couple flying V's.....a 6-string and an 8-string bass.....looked cool as hell but I just could not get used to playing them.

But I am OK with my mini Kubicki V's...just can't handle the full size ones.

Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 23, 2017, 02:04:33 PM
Dusty Hill had an interesting Flying V in the early ZZ Top days



(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/joeysbass/Bacchus%2058%20Flying%20V/ZZ%20Top%20on%20V_zpszafvxds6.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: amptech on May 23, 2017, 09:50:23 PM
Dusty Hill had an interesting Flying V in the early ZZ Top days


...Complete with mudbucker, minihumbucker and the best bridge Gibson ever made!
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: clankenstein on May 23, 2017, 10:00:05 PM
cool.is that a middle pickup?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on May 24, 2017, 07:23:11 AM
It's another mudbucker. Same bass ended up with John Entwistle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DthtDjhqVOU
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 24, 2017, 07:44:18 AM
Yup...

(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/entwistleVbass.jpg)
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 24, 2017, 07:49:01 AM
So JAE got it from Dusty Hill? Or was it the other way around?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on May 24, 2017, 09:44:13 AM
It was built by Don Summers. He played bass for the Moving Sidewalks. Billy Gibbons was in that band before ZZ Top. The bass ended up getting sold to Entwistle and ultimately by Sotheby's after the Ox's departure.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: amptech on May 24, 2017, 10:39:43 AM
Gibson neck and hardware? Maybe just an EB3 glued to a guitar V body?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Granny Gremlin on May 24, 2017, 11:02:09 AM
I thought the headstock looked a bit wrong.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Rob on May 24, 2017, 11:28:48 AM
Are those the same bass?
Tommy looks more pointed.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Dave W on May 24, 2017, 01:34:28 PM
Is it just me, or does the body look larger than a V guitar body?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 24, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
It does look like it is yes. If you look at that ZZ Top shot.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: 4stringer77 on May 24, 2017, 04:06:02 PM
Is it just me, or does the body look larger than a V guitar body?
I saw something about an SG/EB body being chopped and having different wings grafted on.
I don't know if it's another one of Don's creations; however, there's another similar bass called the Discoverer that is a mirror image of a Dean ML guitar.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 25, 2017, 06:58:13 AM
there's another similar bass called the Discoverer that is a mirror image of a Dean ML guitar.

He purchased that one under the false pretense that it was an actual Gibson prototype. Turned out to be completely fake. Looks like it may have started life as an EB.

(http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/35757.jpg)

Also, I didn't recall the second mudbucker on the V, and here's why:

(http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/35756.jpg)

Now that I think about it, it could still be the same bass with a different pickguard.
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: amptech on May 25, 2017, 10:09:13 PM


Now that I think about it, it could still be the same bass with a different pickguard.

But the headstocks are not the same?
Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: Basvarken on May 26, 2017, 02:58:18 AM
I'm pretty sure these two photographs are photoshopped mockups.
The shadows of the knobs and bridge don't look consistent. They're different angle.
Plus with the Flying V there's an entire piece of the bridge missing on the right side near the stud.

The real Flying V that Dusty Hill and JAE used had a different shape headstock. Not triangular but with curved outlines.


Title: Re: Flying V Bass
Post by: gearHed289 on May 30, 2017, 11:42:03 AM
But the headstocks are not the same?

Yeah, I see that now.