The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: patman on November 14, 2016, 05:46:38 AM
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Was looking at GK amps
Would like to buy a small light amp...1 12 inch speaker...something light to replace my ancient Peavey behemoth that weighs 90 pounds.
Basically a stage monitor. I always have a nice PA to work with.
GK offers some small light class D amps for extremely reasonable prices
They also offer the 150 watt MB 150S, which is priced at $700
Does anyone have experience with what the differences are, and why would I buy one over the other?
Thanks
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No experience, but a vote for a used Genz-Benz Shuttle docked on a G-B 10" or 12" cab. Very nice package, light, big sound.
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I do not know the current class D GK amps, but I never cared for the MB-150. It's fine with an acoustic group, but I would not want it as my only stage monitor if anywhere a drummer with any hitting power - I wouldn't be able to to hear myself, even if the audience could through a decent PA.
I just thought there was neither enough power or lows to it.
Modern lightweight amps can have a LOT more power than that, and there are a lot of compact / light cabs on the market these days too. I'd second the vote for a GB shuttle head, I love mine. I do not know their cabs though.
Personally I use my shuttle on top of one or a pair of EA cabs - a little EA CXL110, which is certainly small but not very light, and a CXL112L, which is much louder and also bigger and heavier. I confess I've never tried the 110 by itself with a full band; don't know if it could keep up by itself.
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I've heard the buzz about the new Quilter Bass Block 800, but haven't heard it yet. 800W@4 ohms, $599, under 4 lbs.
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Roland has a couple of single 12 variations out there. I played a 60 or 80 watt one a few years ago and really liked it. I think the new ones are even a bit more powerful. They have a number of simulations to make it easy to get the sound you're looking for.
Rick
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Wow-Those Quilters are small enough to fit on a pedalboard!
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I sold off my Black Widow equipped TNT 150 last winter & bought this lightweight Mark Bass setup. I have yet to find anything lighter that will handle all of my basses.
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/LM250%20NY121_zps7baujazn.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/LM250%20NY121_zps7baujazn.jpg.html)
Next to it's bigger brother...............
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af119/Grog_03/Big%20%20Small_zps74fremdn.jpg) (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/Grog_03/media/Big%20%20Small_zps74fremdn.jpg.html)
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Well
I bought a used Ampeg American made B100R
A little heavier than I wanted, but small and sounds like I like an amp to sound
Probably paid too much , but oh well. Was in better than excellent shape visually...probably in a studio all it's life.
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Nice, let us now how you like it! They look cool. Does it sound portaflex-y as advertised?
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They are relatively heavy but not that bad. If you get the sound you want, it's all good.
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I demoed it at a young kid's studio with his maybe Zon 6 string...was so crisp it put my teeth on edge...after looking on the net, I decided it was probably a Tobias...
I need to take it to rehearsal with my Gibson bass to get the true sound
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Took it to rehearsal...
Very warm pleasing tone.
Sort of portaflexy, but more versatile...more mids...more volume, but less bottom than I remember my old B-15 having, but still plenty bottom, even for me.
Was able to get a good sound with little effort...able to go from Motown to slightly Jaco-ish, and everyplace in-between. It's all good.
Handles the low B nicely.
Heavy....need to buy a cover, and some Ernie Ball casters
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I'm glad you found a winner ;D. I didn't want to trash the GK class D amps because It's a matter of personal taste, but a few years ago, I waited for those things to hit the store and had my mind pretty much made up that's what I was going to buy. I'm a fan of GK stuff in general and always looked at them as a good bang for the buck, but their class D line was way underwhelming for me. I tried every one the had in store and they were so anemic I couldn't believe GK put their name on them. I did side by side comparisons with a number of amps and almost walked away with a Markbass. Everything I played was head and shoulders better than the GK stuff :sad:. I held out and got a Genz Benz Shuttle a few months later and to this day couldn't be happier ;D.
Rick
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I held out and got a Genz Benz Shuttle a few months later and to this day couldn't be happier ;D.
Rick
Me, too!
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I'm hoping Genzler comes out with a combo soon.
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I'm hoping Genzler comes out with a combo soon.
Yessss!! That would make many people happy.
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I was under the impression that Fender bought them just to kill them. Of course that was mainly just my suspicious nature. Fender has had them for a few years now , and to my knowledge, done nothing to incorporate any Genz Benz technology. Technology is something you just can't sit on because somebody else will come up with something else that will make that stuff you've been sitting on worthless. Tick Tock.
Rick
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Yup, that's surely why Jeff started a new company with a new name.
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I was under the impression that Fender bought them just to kill them. Of course that was mainly just my suspicious nature. Fender has had them for a few years now , and to my knowledge, done nothing to incorporate any Genz Benz technology. Technology is something you just can't sit on because somebody else will come up with something else that will make that stuff you've been sitting on worthless. Tick Tock.
Rick
First of all, Fender didn't buy them, so to speak. FMIC bought Kaman's music division nearly nine years ago, and Genz Benz was just a minor part of Kaman (Genz Benz sold to Kaman in 2003). Kaman was desperate to sell its music division, which had been losing money for years.
Second, Fender is using Genz Benz technology in its Fender Rumble v3 line. Completely redesigned from the earlier Rumbles. 500w head, 5 lbs., $399 street.
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That is good news ;D. I've got to get out more.
What can I say, I'm just a cynical old fart >:(. A few years ago I think I turned into my dad :o
Rick
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Speaking of that... Anybody tried a Genzler yet?
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I'm hoping Genzler comes out with a combo soon.
I kinda made my own. ;D The amp section of my Acoustic B200 went up in smoke at sound check on Labor Day. I'd been thinking about upgrading anyway, so I picked up a used Streamliner 900. I've got it sandwiched between 2 pieces of 1/2'' foam, and it's a great fit. Plus I can slide it out easy enough (but not TOO easy) if I want to use it as a backup or whatever. I decided to take it one step further by putting my trusty (30 years) old EVM 15L in there. It's a nice little rig at 62 pounds. The Genz is great, but lacking in high end. I'm wondering if different tubes may help? This is what the previous owner put in there -
V1 = NOS Jan Phillips 5751
V2 = JJ ECC83
V3 = Tungsol 12AX7
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15178137_10209138580640145_6322334114324430977_n.jpg?oh=5928ddaf362c99cd82bfd1beaa7483f5&oe=58B316FD)
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Well
I bought a used Ampeg American made B100R
A little heavier than I wanted, but small and sounds like I like an amp to sound
Probably paid too much , but oh well. Was in better than excellent shape visually...probably in a studio all it's life.
Excellent choice! I own two B100Rs and run them together, stacked with an ABY pedal and parametric EQ in front. They have never let me down.
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I confess that I'm tempted to buy a Fender Rumble with a 15" speaker just because I like the sound of a 15. The Rumble 200 is 35 pounds, which is almost a match for my Genz Shuttle on its 12" cab.
But it might be as much fun to buy the free-standing Rumble 15" speaker and use it with my 1967 blackface Bassman.
This is the Bassman on a 60's cab I sold ...
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/IMAG0167.jpg)
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I confess that I'm tempted to buy a Fender Rumble with a 15" speaker just because I like the sound of a 15. The Rumble 200 is 35 pounds, which is almost a match for my Genz Shuttle on its 12" cab.
But it might be as much fun to buy the free-standing Rumble 15" speaker and use it with my 1967 blackface Bassman.
This is the Bassman on a 60's cab I sold ...
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/IMAG0167.jpg)
I think you are on to something.
A blackface and a 15 would be interesting.
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I think you are on to something.
A blackface and a 15 would be interesting.
Yes, the drawback would be that the head would weigh just about as much as the cab (30 lbs. to the cab's 36.) But at the volume my band plays, the Bassman would generate plenty of volume. And it's "vintage". OOOooooooOOOOO!
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Doesn't a bassman need a 4 ohm cab?
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Before responding to the question, I did some quick research online.
Turns out that most indicate that a 4 ohm load is what it's designed for. Fender used these heads with two 8-ohm speakers wired in parallel to present a 4 ohm load.
That said, I don't think that running it at 8 ohms would hurt anything, and I have done that in the past. I'd expect that it would cost a bit of volume.
Perhaps PBG and some others will weigh in on this.
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Someone told me when I first started playing that you had to me careful with a tube amp, but much less careful with solid state.
Probably the same person that told me to just dime the controls on the Fender bass so you don't kill the high end response....
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No, you need to get as close as possible with a tube amp. PBG can confirm this or correct me if I'm wrong, but what I understand is that mismatching with a higher impedance cab will cause the voltage at the output transformer to be too high, which will eventually destroy the output transformer and maybe more. Sold state amps don't need output transformers.
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I'll wait until i can get confirmation. Worst case would be changing out the speaker to a 4-ohm version.
EDIT: but the 4-ohm version of that speaker is about $200, making it an economic non-starter.
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An 8 ohm cabinet won't kill it outright unless something else goes wrong, but it's not good for it either. The way an output transformer works, it "reflects" back the output device's operational voltage on its primary side (the "tube side") proportional to the resistance it "sees" on the secondary. (Since the actual impedance varies with frequency and a whole bunch of other factors, the "average" resistance rating is what the transformer is wound to accommodate and also how speakers are rated.) Bassmans are made for a 4 ohm output and when used with an 8 ohm cabinet, the operational safety factor of the amp is reduced by half on average and under certain conditions (port tuning, etc), even more because of the rise in the operation voltage of the output tubes every time the amp "sees" a resistance higher than 4 ohms.
Even with a 4 ohm speaker, there are all kinds of spikes and drops in the actual impedance curve at varying frequencies, (which vary with speaker, cabinet type, output voltage, and even room temperature) but by starting with an average mismatch of double the rating, the operational safety factor of the amp is halved. Bassmans run a pair of 6L6GC's at around 425 volts on the plates and a sustained (test tone into a dummy load at full output) 8 ohm load would result in them seeing 850 volts on the plates. If that plate voltage number goes too high for too long, two VERY bad things can happen: the transformer will start arcing internally and burn away the insulation between windings, "a slow death" that can go unnoticed until the amp starts having strange problems down the road or the tubes themselves can short across the plates and the amp pretty much blows up spectacularly and destroys the output tubes, transformer AND the speakers. Tubes are also made to accommodate operations variances, (they'd be useless for audio if they didn't) but their average ratings are also their guidelines too and the 6L6GC has a max voltage rating of 500 volts.
In real life, there are going to be short transient resistance peaks even with a correct load, which the tubes/transformer were designed for, but they're also going to be twice as bad with a load twice as "resistive" as a properly rated load. The Bassman is a pretty conservative circuit and it's not such a big deal, but in amps like an SVT where the amp is already skirting tube ratings under normal operation, too high of a speaker impedance is just asking for serious trouble. Your Bassman should be OK if you're not pushing it hard, but it's not a good idea for the long haul. The easiest solution is simply to add another 8 ohm cab. It's cheaper than replacing the speaker and you can change your tonal palette that way. And on another side note, the amp itself "sounds" different with too high of a load. The higher the mismatch, the brighter the amp sounds.
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Very helpful and informative!! Thanks for the info. I'm in no rush, so i'll just stay with the Genz.
I do have a pair of 8 ohm PA speakers in my practice room and I occasionally connect the Bassman to one of them, but I could connect both for practice. the volume is so low that it shouldn't be an issue anyway.