The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: Dave W on July 17, 2016, 12:05:31 PM

Title: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 17, 2016, 12:05:31 PM
Flea Signature J (https://reverb.com/news/fender-and-flea-release-signature-jazz-bass)

$1200 street price for a roadworn MIM with upgraded pickups? Hardcore Flea fans will probably bite, seems a little steep for anyone else. At that price, I hope they include a sock (but not the one he used).

CS Pete Townshend Strat (https://reverb.com/news/fender-announces-new-limited-edition-pete-townshend-stratocaster)

A Strat with Lace Sensor Golds, a Fishman Powerbridge Piezo, and Pete's approval = yours for only $6500.  :o
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on July 17, 2016, 10:02:40 PM
It's a shame too. Those Roadworn Mexi J's are KILLER, but $1200??? Fender hasn't been paying attention to the economy.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 18, 2016, 04:19:05 AM
A bunch of those Flea basses have been snapped up on Basschat.

I like neither the look nor the tone Pete gets with those Strats. For a guy that would run P90-equipped SGs into Hiwatts his 'new' rig (since 1989 at least) doesn't sound as good. Then again I'm not a fan of the tone of Fender guitar amps under duress anyway. Some naff '80s 'improved' Strat into an MXR Dynacomp, Boss OD pedal and gunned Fender amps just screams of 'deaf old man guitarist' to me. Old-boy rockers who still refer to treble as 'top'.

That signature Strat looks like something a kid in a (guitar) candy shop would cook up circa 1989, right enough. Piezo bridge, Lace pickups, naff active circuitry, jolly ketchup red finish... a tired look on a way overpriced instrument.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: slinkp on July 18, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
I like Pete's strat + fender amp sound, personally.   Not nearly as much as I love the P90 + Hiwatt sound.  In comparison his "new" rig is a bit bland and generic.   But compare it to the awful scooped live tone he had in the early 80s playing Schecters (through Hiwatts).  I don't know what the hell was going on then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_-Ue0LhVsI
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 18, 2016, 12:42:22 PM
I imagine cocaine was involved. Looks like Pete is wearing makeup in that video.  :o
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Chris P. on July 19, 2016, 03:47:12 AM
I think Pete's SG/Hiwatt-sound (or LP with Mini-Humbuckers) is one of the best guitar sounds ever. I saw Neil Young last week with Old Black and that's the only one competing. But...

I saw The Who three times the last couple of years and the first two times I wasn't very impressed by Pete's sound. Too thin, not very powerfull. The last time I saw 'm was just after their triumphant shows at Glastonbury and in Hyde Park. It was the only show after that weekend before the summer break of the tour and it seemed they wanted to make one, last big party. They were in the best mood ever, Roger didn't wanted to to leave the stage afterwards and I think Pete cranked up his amps or something. His guitar sound was louder, rougher, better, cruchier, and looser than the previous two times. He sounded a bit like the old Pete and I loved every single second it! I was really impressed.

The piezo on his guitar is a nice addition live. In some songs he can go from sounding acoustic to electric, without changing guitars. Nice for songs like Pinball Wizard.

The Road Worn Mexican Fenders are not much cheaper in The Netherlands than the Flea Sig. And I like the specs of the Flea sig: colour and stacked controls.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 19, 2016, 02:30:44 PM
I don't like the artificial wear or the color.

The original road worn J was something like $900, now I see it has gone up to $1100, so there's not much difference here either.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: rockinrayduke on July 19, 2016, 03:10:33 PM
Did the RW P-Bass thing, sold it. At least it was halfway affordable, this one, meh. Not a big fan of manufactured mojo.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: ilan on July 21, 2016, 03:17:56 AM
FWIW, a certain MIM Roadworn Jazz (Fiesta Red) I once played in a music store was one of the best sounding/playing Jazz basses I have ever played, old or new.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 21, 2016, 03:47:58 AM
I don't like the artificial wear or the color.

The original road worn J was something like $900, now I see it has gone up to $1100, so there's not much difference here either.

It's a replica of the '60 (or '61?) bass given to Flea by a fan around 10 years ago...it was pristine then, valued at around $40K IIRC.

The color is Shell Pink.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: gearHed289 on July 21, 2016, 07:22:24 AM
FWIW, a certain MIM Roadworn Jazz (Fiesta Red) I once played in a music store was one of the best sounding/playing Jazz basses I have ever played, old or new.

That's the weird thing about Fenders - you never know when or where you're going to find one that's really great.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 21, 2016, 03:10:45 PM
It's a replica of the '60 (or '61?) bass given to Flea by a fan around 10 years ago...it was pristine then, valued at around $40K IIRC.

The color is Shell Pink.

Yep. I don't like it. Reminds me of thinned Pepto-Bismol.

It wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't added the fake wear.

That's the weird thing about Fenders - you never know when or where you're going to find one that's really great.

So true. But I still wouldn't buy anything with fake wear, no matter how good it sounds.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 26, 2016, 04:46:44 AM
Flea added a sticker of D. Boon to his original bass. Do Fender include this in the case candy?

Fender made a slight faux pas with their promotional imagery used at events like NAMM. As somebody on Talkbass pointed out, the chosen shot unfortunately aligns Flea's left pinkie finger with one of the inlays, creating the illusion of a pimp nail. Woops!

These seem to retail for £882.00 in the UK, which isn't too bad but is a cut above a MIM Standard. I consider the stack-knob configuration to be quite cool, but still an electrical blunder on Leo's part in its original permutation. Having converted a Jazz to a stack configuration I can say that it is a bit of a pain to use.

The wear doesn't bother me too much, but it is not my thing. I'm put off simply by the fact that the wear is identical on all these basses, which seems contrary to the whole individualist aspect that makes relic finishes appealing in the first place. I wager the finishes aren't 100% nitro anyway, and will be modern nitro formulated with plasticisers sprayed over a Poly undercoat. I don't see how any of these 'improvements' enhance the tone of the instrument.

People on Basschat have had one or two issues with the bass. One unlucky soul found that a factory worker had brute-forced an ill fitting pickup cover onto the bridge pickup, crowning out the screws and distorting the cover.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 26, 2016, 08:19:26 PM
All modern nitros are different from what was used in 1961, due to environmental regulations. AFAIK, no way to reproduce old formulas commercially. Besides, Fender stopped using nitro as a sealer coat in 1955.

Despite all the propaganda in guitar literature and forums over the years, nitrocellulose lacquer is a plastic finish. It's the first commercially successful plastic finish.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 27, 2016, 03:47:02 AM
I didn't realise it was as early as 1955.  I'm guessing the sanding sealer coat is 'Fullerplast'? That just reinforces my opinion; Leo Fender was using all of this stuff to save costs and produce a product quickly. I do find it amusing that Fender's PR department have claimed that Nitro lets the wood 'breathe' because it comes from plants, or some bollocks like that. Even calling these modern nitro finished 'lacquer' to differentiate them in the catalogue seems fairly deceitful.

At the bottom of all of this I don't see Leo Fender spraying a half dozen different finishes commercially available circa 1951 onto body blanks and then tapping them to see which one resonated more. Had modern poly finishes been available to him he would have probably used those. I think poly gets a bad rap because it is used on cheaper instruments and because some Japanese manufacturers did use legitimately thick, brittle poly finishes in the '70s, at a time when people seem to be trying hard to discredit import instruments.

Maybe, lastly, there is a bit of a gratification element at play as well. Nitro ages way quicker than poly, so it shows clearly that you have been woodshedding on your instrument.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Pilgrim on July 27, 2016, 09:27:48 AM
Back in '51, it's pretty clear that Leo was very cost-conscious. He used car paint for his finishes, and I agree that it's highly unlikely he was tapping on bodies to compare the acoustic effects of various finishes.

Fender has always been a production-line, "git'em out the door" company. Leo was pretty visionary in terms of some things like scale length, body configuration and pickup designs, but I doubt his inner "tone monitor" extended to the acoustics of finishes.  He is likely to have been much more interested in smooth, attractive finishes, hence the Fullerplast to eliminate wood pores and grain lines. http://www.caraguitars.com/fullerplast.htm
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Rob on July 27, 2016, 10:56:48 AM
Compared to 1951 the wood was better.  Slower mostly first cut growth for species like Ask.
Even construction grade 2x4's were discarded if they had knots.  Now they go on the sales floor.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 27, 2016, 11:18:45 AM
I didn't realise it was as early as 1955.  I'm guessing the sanding sealer coat is 'Fullerplast'? That just reinforces my opinion; Leo Fender was using all of this stuff to save costs and produce a product quickly. I do find it amusing that Fender's PR department have claimed that Nitro lets the wood 'breathe' because it comes from plants, or some bollocks like that. Even calling these modern nitro finished 'lacquer' to differentiate them in the catalogue seems fairly deceitful.

At the bottom of all of this I don't see Leo Fender spraying a half dozen different finishes commercially available circa 1951 onto body blanks and then tapping them to see which one resonated more. Had modern poly finishes been available to him he would have probably used those. I think poly gets a bad rap because it is used on cheaper instruments and because some Japanese manufacturers did use legitimately thick, brittle poly finishes in the '70s, at a time when people seem to be trying hard to discredit import instruments.

Maybe, lastly, there is a bit of a gratification element at play as well. Nitro ages way quicker than poly, so it shows clearly that you have been woodshedding on your instrument.

Yes, it was Fullerplast, which was an epoxy-based sprayed sealcoat. Its formula apparently changed over the years, as most other finishing products have. By the early 70s they had switched to something else.

I don't think it's deceitful to call modern nitro finishes lacquer. They still fit the definition. Sure, it would be better if they made it clear that it's not the same nitro that used to be used, but that would be bad marketing. Can't allow that!  :)

Leo cut costs wherever he could while still putting out a quality product. I remember reading a post on some forum from a guy who had worked for him at G&L in the 80s. When he first started, Leo chewed him out for dumping the glue squeezeout from the press that glued the two or three body pieces together. He expected you to use a trowel, scoop up as much of the excess as possible, and save it for the next body glue-up.

Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 27, 2016, 12:24:20 PM
Yes, it was Fullerplast, which was an epoxy-based sprayed sealcoat. Its formula apparently changed over the years, as most other finishing products have. By the early 70s they had switched to something else.

I don't think it's deceitful to call modern nitro finishes lacquer. They still fit the definition. Sure, it would be better if they made it clear that it's not the same nitro that used to be used, but that would be bad marketing. Can't allow that!  :)

Leo cut costs wherever he could while still putting out a quality product. I remember reading a post on some forum from a guy who had worked for him at G&L in the 80s. When he first started, Leo chewed him out for dumping the glue squeezeout from the press that glued the two or three body pieces together. He expected you to use a trowel, scoop up as much of the excess as possible, and save it for the next body glue-up.

Two years ago I shot whatever you want to call today's nitro over the headstock lacquer on my EBO that I had shot in '73 over whatever Gisbo used on it in 1960, all with no prep beyond a light scuff sanding and wipe down.  That's close enough for me. :)

When you're paying for materials whether or not they go in the product you're aware how things add up.  I remember looking at the hundreds of one inch cutoffs around my $12,000 Holzher edgebander in the 90s and thinking, "Each one of those cost me a penny, how can I get that damn thing to make a closer cut."

Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 27, 2016, 01:48:01 PM
I don't think it's deceitful to call modern nitro finishes lacquer. They still fit the definition. Sure, it would be better if they made it clear that it's not the same nitro that used to be used, but that would be bad marketing. Can't allow that!  :)

I probably didn't make myself that clear there.  ;D

By definition Fender instruments are all lacquered, unless they made one or two oil finishes over the years. To single out those with a thin nitro coat over the poly prep stages as 'lacquer' instruments is perhaps deceitful. I suppose my issue is that Fender is propagating the notion that nitro = lacquer, and then make weird and wonderful claims about what that entails.

More overtly deceitful is the following:

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/cgravier_bucket/fendernitro_zpsf135d529.jpg)

"Gurus of vintage tone have consistently chosen lacquer finished instruments over the years".

"Lacquer lets the wood breathe and vibrate more freely".
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Pilgrim on July 27, 2016, 02:45:44 PM
BTW, the website that I cited earlier says that Fullerplast wasn't used until about 1963.  I'm not clear on what Fender used for a sealing coat under the finish before that time.

The one full refin I did used acrylic lacquer, and it seems to me that should be the close equivalent of just about any modern lacquer finish.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 27, 2016, 03:10:14 PM
BTW, the website that I cited earlier says that Fullerplast wasn't used until about 1963.  I'm not clear on what Fender used for a sealing coat under the finish before that time.

The one full refin I did used acrylic lacquer, and it seems to me that should be the close equivalent of just about any modern lacquer finish.

Modern acrylic lacquers and nitros ARE NOT compatible...unless you like crackle finishes.  I shoot both and use acrylic clear over acrylic color and nitro over nitro after experiencing it two out of two attempts.

I think formulations back in the day were compatible.  Hence the nitro clear yellow aging on top of original pelham blue poly which in auto formulation was a GM acrylic lacquer.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 27, 2016, 04:39:59 PM
BTW, the website that I cited earlier says that Fullerplast wasn't used until about 1963.  I'm not clear on what Fender used for a sealing coat under the finish before that time.

The one full refin I did used acrylic lacquer, and it seems to me that should be the close equivalent of just about any modern lacquer finish.

I didn't catch that you linked to that article earlier. He's full of shit as a Christmas goose. Most of the things he said are flat-out false, and none of the accurate things he said were ever a secret. Fender started using Fullerplast in 1956, and it's not a pore filler or any kind of undercoat. It's a very thin sealer coat. On sunbursts, it was used over yellow stain that was applied to the bare wood. "a self-hardening plastic that wrapped the body in a rock-hard solid coffin"? He's an ignorant, self-serving tool trying to use a con to drum up business.

That article is at least 8 years old. It keeps coming up on various forums year after year.

Two years ago I shot whatever you want to call today's nitro over the headstock lacquer on my EBO that I had shot in '73 over whatever Gisbo used on it in 1960, all with no prep beyond a light scuff sanding and wipe down.  That's close enough for me. :)

When you're paying for materials whether or not they go in the product you're aware how things add up.  I remember looking at the hundreds of one inch cutoffs around my $12,000 Holzher edgebander in the 90s and thinking, "Each one of those cost me a penny, how can I get that damn thing to make a closer cut."


I'm not saying that what's used today isn't as good as what was used in 1960 (or whenever). It's likely better, but it isn't the exact same product.

I probably didn't make myself that clear there.  ;D

By definition Fender instruments are all lacquered, unless they made one or two oil finishes over the years. To single out those with a thin nitro coat over the poly prep stages as 'lacquer' instruments is perhaps deceitful. I suppose my issue is that Fender is propagating the notion that nitro = lacquer, and then make weird and wonderful claims about what that entails.

More overtly deceitful is the following:

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/cgravier_bucket/fendernitro_zpsf135d529.jpg)

"Gurus of vintage tone have consistently chosen lacquer finished instruments over the years".

"Lacquer lets the wood breathe and vibrate more freely".

Wait... are you implying that dead wood doesn't breathe?  :o  ;D  When it comes to creative marketing, Fender doesn't miss a beat.

They're implying that only lacquer "breathes" which is nonsense. All wood finishes exchange moisture with the surrounding atmosphere. Some are more porous than others, but if you put identical pieces of wood in a room, each with a different finish, sooner or later they will all reach equilibrium moisture content.

Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 27, 2016, 04:43:57 PM
I remember posting this here once before. Fender once claimed that flatwound strings need to be changed more often. Never mind why.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/davepix/humor/fenderstrummer.jpg)
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 27, 2016, 05:25:26 PM
"I'm not saying that what's used today isn't as good as what was used in 1960 (or whenever). It's likely better, but it isn't the exact same product."

Dave, I didn't mean to imply that the old stuff was better, just that today's acts very similar to whatever was the chemistry then.  Sorry if that was the case.

I'm positive the Mohawk Piano Lacquer clear I'm using now which is compatible with any nitro color I put it over (including Reranch) is much more durable and faster building than say, Behlen's instrument lacquer.  But it definitely doesn't play nice with Rustoleum or Krylon colors which are fine under TCP Global automotive acrylic lacquer clear.  Which is even more durable and faster building than the piano lacquer.

...I'm confused, I can imagine how anyone else reading this feels.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: amptech on July 27, 2016, 11:01:36 PM

...I'm confused, I can imagine how anyone else reading this feels.

That's because guitar finish brings out feelings, and when we feel instead of think we become irrational :)

In the practical world, I'd agree that todays laquer works with/acts like that from the old days. I have only done about 10 finishes now with 'modern' nitro, and half of them was old gibsons where I did not remove the old laquer, so my foundation and experience might be questionable. One of the instruments had opaque car paint over the original finish and I was able to remove it and shoot modern nitro over old nitro. The only problem I ever had was a black modern nitro reacting with the black headstock paint on a '65 EB0.

I like old stuff allright, no problem admitting it - but it really does not bother me that modern nitro is not what it used to be as long as it looks good and is compatible with the old.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 28, 2016, 01:24:47 AM
I remember posting this here once before. Fender once claimed that flatwound strings need to be changed more often. Never mind why.

Because a cartoon German scientist says so!

I'm guessing that guitar flats are like bass flats in that, shy of structural failure, they don't really have an upper limit to the length of time you can use them. Fender being sales-driven, they have to come up with a kooky way of making sure they keep selling flats.  :rolleyes:

I read yesterday that Gibson's lacquer is acrylic, mixed with ~7% nitro, that they have to pay to use. Any truth to this?
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 28, 2016, 01:15:09 PM

Dave, I didn't mean to imply that the old stuff was better, just that today's acts very similar to whatever was the chemistry then.  Sorry if that was the case.

I didn't think you were saying the older stuff was better. I assumed you were just saying what you use now is compatible.

...I'm confused, I can imagine how anyone else reading this feels.

You're definitely the expert here on modern lacquers. You're the one using them.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 28, 2016, 01:34:59 PM
Because a cartoon German scientist says so!

I'm guessing that guitar flats are like bass flats in that, shy of structural failure, they don't really have an upper limit to the length of time you can use them. Fender being sales-driven, they have to come up with a kooky way of making sure they keep selling flats.  :rolleyes:

Guitar flats are the same as bass flats, they don't lose many highs b/c they never had many to begin with.  :)  But I doubt this was about selling more flats, it was probably from some marketing person that didn't know anything about strings.

You never know what some people will come up with. Awhile back at a guitar forum I saw a thread where someone asked about flats and one guy responded that they would tear up your frets quickly if you had a vintage guitar and would chew through the frets on a modern guitar almost right away.  :o

I read yesterday that Gibson's lacquer is acrylic, mixed with ~7% nitro, that they have to pay to use. Any truth to this?

I hadn't heard that. Why would they have to pay extra to use that?

It's possible, though. On their website, the Gibson USA models just say the finish is lacquer, while the Gibson Custom models all specify nitro for both the sealer and top coats.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Pilgrim on July 28, 2016, 02:22:45 PM
Thanks for the correction on the Fullerplast page, Dave - I had no idea that was so erroneous.

All I can attest to is that in my case, using an acrylic lacquer primer from an auto parts store and Stew-Mac acrylic lacquer for color and top coats produced a very nice finish that buffed well.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 28, 2016, 02:41:27 PM
I hadn't heard that. Why would they have to pay extra to use that?

The website suggested that environmental regs limit nitro to 5%, and Gibson have to pay a surcharge for taking it up to 7%. I'm not totally buying it myself, as I'm sure it depends on total volume of nitro used (and finicky cleanup and disposal steps, audit trails etc), but I suppose it propagates the whole 'Gibson are the tough guys going up against the man' image that arose around the time of the illegal wood debacle.

I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on July 28, 2016, 05:32:55 PM
I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!

IMO, that's the smell of the chemical used in the fabric liner of the cases; that's exactly how I would describe my EB's case to smell and the bass carries it with it.  Fender cases smell like Carmex lip balm
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 28, 2016, 05:51:05 PM
The website suggested that environmental regs limit nitro to 5%, and Gibson have to pay a surcharge for taking it up to 7%. I'm not totally buying it myself, as I'm sure it depends on total volume of nitro used (and finicky cleanup and disposal steps, audit trails etc), but I suppose it propagates the whole 'Gibson are the tough guys going up against the man' image that arose around the time of the illegal wood debacle.

I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!

Now I understand what you mean. It can't be true. There are state and federal hazardous air pollution and waste disposal regulations, but nothing that would limit the percentage of nitro. Not even in California with its more stringent regulations. If it were so, finish manufacturers wouldn't even be able to ship product into Tennessee. Yet you can go into any Sherwin-Williams store and buy their LOVOC nitro. Besides, Gibson is using straight nitro on the Gibson Custom line.

Thanks for the correction on the Fullerplast page, Dave - I had no idea that was so erroneous.

All I can attest to is that in my case, using an acrylic lacquer primer from an auto parts store and Stew-Mac acrylic lacquer for color and top coats produced a very nice finish that buffed well.

I found a 7-year-old thread on FDP where uncle stack-knob and were debunking that page. Must have been one of my last posts there before giving up on the place.  :)
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Pilgrim on July 28, 2016, 06:12:54 PM
All I can say in response is that you were wiser than I to come here voluntarily.

Muchas gracias.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Alanko on July 29, 2016, 02:22:46 AM
Now I understand what you mean. It can't be true...

I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239 (http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239)

"A thin acrylic lacquer finish will be basically indistinguishable from nitro, except that it won't yellow and crack over time. and you can add up to 7% nitro back to acrylic and still get that yellowing/cracking "effect". which is what Gibson does currently, and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 29, 2016, 04:06:30 AM
I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239 (http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239)

", and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."

I'd like to see documentation on this.

Generally the EPA is concerned with VOC levels, Volatile Organic Compounds.  Volatile as in they evaporate, the stuff gets into the atmosphere.  Nitro or acrylic components in finishes are solids.

The reason BOTH nitro and acrylic lacquers are banned in California and other places for industrial use is because the solvent component necessary for application exceeds legally mandated VOC levels.

The automotive acrylic lacquer I use is not legal in California...even though the company that manufactures it is based there.

AFAIK, you don't pay fees to be allowed to break laws, they're called fines.

I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong but until I see documentation this goes in the bullshit file right next to 'Finishes that allow wood to breathe'.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on July 29, 2016, 10:21:02 PM
I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239 (http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239)

"A thin acrylic lacquer finish will be basically indistinguishable from nitro, except that it won't yellow and crack over time. and you can add up to 7% nitro back to acrylic and still get that yellowing/cracking "effect". which is what Gibson does currently, and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."

There's no such EPA regulation.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: dadagoboi on July 30, 2016, 05:34:33 AM
There's no such EPA regulation.

Thanks, Dave, not surprised.

Ad copy I take with a grain of salt.  Undocumented internet postings require a quart of salt water.  Only 6% though, wouldn't want to break the FDA regulations.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: exiledarchangel on August 04, 2016, 12:50:47 AM
Despite all the propaganda in guitar literature and forums over the years, nitrocellulose lacquer is a plastic finish. It's the first commercially successful plastic finish.

Amen brother! :P In my book, when something that is supposed to seal and protect the paint, lets the wood underneath to "breath", clearly it doesn't do its job so good and we must get rid of it!
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Jeff Scott on August 04, 2016, 02:55:24 PM
I played the Elite Jazz and P basses this afternoon.  To me, they were basically the same old, same old.  Perhaps, when Fender comes out with the American Ultimate Final Version (we promise) Never To Be Repeated (well, maybe we will) Super Jazz Bass and American Ultimate Final Version (we promise) Never To Be Repeated (well, maybe we will) Super Precision they will have truly upped the game.  Until that time, they are just rehashing (IMO) the same formula over and over again with a (somewhat) new name.  Oh yeah, the "new, innovative"  truss rod wheel is nice to have, finally, on a Fender, but that is far from a new thing, as we all know.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on August 04, 2016, 10:00:48 PM
The Elites don't seem much different from the Deluxes they replaced. Haven't seen any in person yet though.
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Jeff Scott on August 05, 2016, 09:55:48 AM
Regarding model series names that Fender uses, I always liked "American Standard".  I keep waiting for Fender to come up with the TOTO, Gerber, and Kohler series of instruments.............................
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Dave W on August 06, 2016, 09:49:39 PM
Regarding model series names that Fender uses, I always liked "American Standard".  I keep waiting for Fender to come up with the TOTO, Gerber, and Kohler series of instruments.............................

 :mrgreen:

How about Glacier Bay,  a low end model available only at Home De(s)pot?
Title: Re: New from Fender
Post by: Jeff Scott on August 07, 2016, 12:26:01 PM
:mrgreen:

How about Glacier Bay,  a low end model available only at Home De(s)pot?
Yeah, that works!

It probably only comes in white, though. :mrgreen: