The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: 999 on April 23, 2016, 03:47:23 AM
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I'm setting up a project bass using a single Tbird pup. A different body design and with a set neck - not a straight reproduction. My first inclination is to place the pickup in the usual 'neck' position as I know how that sounds and what to expect. However, I'm considering moving it back some - not as far back as the normal bridge position or a musicman but maybe splitting the distance. Of course, these pups have a pretty wide aperture so I imagine this can be less precise than with a single coil. Any thoughts on optimum pup placement?
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I'm setting up a project bass using a single Tbird pup. A different body design and with a set neck - not a straight reproduction. My first inclination is to place the pickup in the usual 'neck' position as I know how that sounds and what to expect. However, I'm considering moving it back some - not as far back as the normal bridge position or a musicman but maybe splitting the distance. Of course, these pups have a pretty wide aperture so I imagine this can be less precise than with a single coil. Any thoughts on optimum pup placement?
'Optimum'...does that mean what the pickup designer intended? You already know that.
What are your criteria as to tone? And what do you mean by a 'single' TBird pup? Bridge, neck, reverse, non reverse, 'modern', etc.
Here's the simple rule for any pickup: closer to the neck more bass, closer to the bridge more treble.
you might build yourself something like this test rig and find out what works for YOU...before you route a pup placement in a set neck body that turns out to be wrong.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/02/TalkingMule_zpseae879bc.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/02/TalkingMule_zpseae879bc.jpg.html)
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I also will measure the pickup placement on a favorite bass with similar characteristics and use that figure. Not as realistic as Carlos mock up model, but it's worked well over the years.
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That is a great practical - rather than simply theoretical - test platform.
Yes, I should have been more specific. This would be using a repro 1960s pickup - either a Thunderbucker I have or possibly one of the recent Chinese repros.
There is some subjectivity to the word "optimum", it's true. If the desire is to approximate the sound of a '60s bird, then the optimum is clearly the same position as original. I meant, any perceived advantage to deviating from this from those who might have tried (?)
My personal optimum is close to an original '60s TB II but with perhaps a touch more definition (thinking more about live use) but without taking on the overt characteristic of a soloed bridge pickup. I'll probably just play it safe and put it in the usual spot.
I've read through some of the Talkbass threads and pup placement is clearly a well tread topic; unsurprisingly, people have strong and usually contradictory opinions.
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Crossposts...
Yes, measuring one I know I like the sound of makes a lot of sense. The builder I'm working with was encouraging the Musicman placement and that just seemed too far back to me - but he''ll do whatever is specified. I'd hate to lose too much of the characteristic tbird oompf ;)
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Happy to lay a tape across my Greco TB II for you David! :)
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Appreciated! I actually have the measurements for a '64. Just toying with whether or not I should do something different or not as it wont look the same anyway.
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Raised this question previously:
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=7610
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Excellent. Thanks. Sorry for the repetition - I missed that.
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I tried to make a TB II Fenderbird a couple of years back, with laughably disastrous results. One thing I learned early on (from memory) was that the neck pickup on Thunderbirds have crept towards the neck over time, and that a TB II isn't simply the same beast as a regular T-bird with a deleted bridge pickup.
My bass was going to have a Fender WRHB in the (hypothetical) 36th fret position, roughly where a P pickup is. It seemed a good compromise on a single pickup instrument, though the bass in question is now safely in the landfill somewhere.
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Sorry about the "laughably disastrous result" on yours! Yes, true that a TB II isn't simply the same beast as a regular T-bird with a deleted bridge pickup. Not really sure why the other pickup being wired in makes as much of a difference as it seems to.
I think I'm going to go with the proven measurement of 3 1/4" from the base of the neck to the front edge of the pickup as on vates' thread.
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Sorry about the "laughably disastrous result" on yours! Yes, true that a TB II isn't simply the same beast as a regular T-bird with a deleted bridge pickup. Not really sure why the other pickup being wired in makes as much of a difference as it seems to.
I think I'm going to go with the proven measurement of 3 1/4" from the base of the neck to the front edge of the pickup as on vates' thread.
Any two-pickup instrument will have some phase cancellation of upper harmonics whose wavelengths are shorter than the distance between the pickups. How much of the difference you'll be able to hear will depend on the frequency curve of the pickups as well as the distance.
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Makes complete sense with both pickups on. Seems odd (to me, at least) that there would be any influence with the volume of the bridge pup on a IV rolled off. One would think it would be effectively the same as a TB II... Though I may just be remembering the difference as being greater than it is or there are other variables as well.
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Happy to lay a tape across my Greco TB II for you David! :)
+1
That's exactly where I'd put the pickup, given how perfect the single pup Grecos sound.
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+1
That's exactly where I'd put the pickup, given how perfect the single pup Grecos sound.
Thanks. Now you've both got me curious, is the placement different than on the 60s birds? Could I get the measurement from the center of the 12th fret (wire) to the neck side edge of the pickup?
Thank you!
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Sorry about the "laughably disastrous result" on yours! Yes, true that a TB II isn't simply the same beast as a regular T-bird with a deleted bridge pickup. Not really sure why the other pickup being wired in makes as much of a difference as it seems to.
If you are a glutton for self-punishment you could look up threads on various forums about why PJ basses don't sound like P basses when you turn down the J. Something to do with the resistance and cumulative capacitance of the extra gubbins in the circuit, even when you bypass them. It seems to centre around opinion though, rather than any hard facts.
I had it in mind that the pickup on the TB II was marginally closer to the bridge than on a TB IV, but now I'm not sure! I use the pickguard screws for reference, which is also how I figure out that neck pickups have crept towards the neck over time.
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Nope. Though the crapsonic sidewinder neck pup was moved slightly south on the BiSextennials.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/CASED%20BIRDS_zps7yetiwfg.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/CASED%20BIRDS_zps7yetiwfg.jpg.html)
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In case anyone is interested in seeing how this has progressed, it's pretty far along; here's the full details over on Talkbass https://www.talkbass.com/threads/rocket-from-russia-a-very-different-kind-of-t-bird.1281235/#post-19969632 (https://www.talkbass.com/threads/rocket-from-russia-a-very-different-kind-of-t-bird.1281235/#post-19969632)
This is obviously a big departure from the traditional Gibson look so won't be everyone's taste, I know. The neck is patterned after my Embassy and the hope is for a T-bird II type of voice. Will have to wait and see on that - but not too much longer.
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/-1_zpseots6vwi.png)
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Wow! Hope it meets your expectations.
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Thanks, Dave, I'm pretty confident it will. His work is about the most precise I've seen - and I include Foderas, Alembics, Ritters, etc in that - counter-intuitive given the amount of freehand work he does with saws, files and chisels! Anyway, I should know soon :) I'll post finished pics when done.
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Sorry, I should have clarified: I hope it delivers the TB II voice you're seeking. His workmanship looks great.
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Thanks, I get it - just my enthusiasm for his work coming through. I think it will get in the ballpark. The stiffness of the single-cut, the carbon fiber, multi-lams and deep set neck should put it somewhere on the scale between a neck through and set neck bird (both of which I love - preaching to the choir on this forum). As it's just running through the volume knob with no other capacitance it should - I hope - have some of that flavor. The bigger risk is we actually did adjust the pickup position; moving it half of its width back (so one coil overlapping the original position) in order to accommodate the 26 fret fingerboard and leave enough of a gap that slap is still possible (though I rarely do that). Can't really know how this will work out until plugging it in...
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Slap...? :o
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DK0aaLNGak :mrgreen:
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:mrgreen:
I pretty much agree. just like to keep options open. And I kind of don't like the pickup butting right up against the fingerboard. Don't really know why.
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You could sacrifice that last half-step instead? ;) 25 frets would still be five more than I usually have ;)
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Too late now 8)
I know I shouldn't be playing that high anyway (but like that those highest notes on the D and G are octaves to the open E and A)
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Mudbucker (or substitute) butted up against the end of the neck is the best defense against slapping and popping. 8)
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Prescient, yes ;)
And, more seriously, moving the pickup further forward pushed it into the treble side cutaway/would have required reworking that whole area. Just didn't look as good - and that's what matters, right? 8)
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Right. It needs to look how you want it to look.
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Yeah. If you're going to design something this far off the (boring) norm, there's no point in settling for other than exactly what YOU want! Go for it!!
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Yeah. If you're going to design something this far off the (boring) norm, there's no point in settling for other than exactly what YOU want! Go for it!!
That reminds me, Paul, have you gone forward with your custom design project?
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The one from 2004? Err....
Nope. I have neither time nor funds for it.
Also, the basses I have now are not too shabby.
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Yeah. If you're going to design something this far off the (boring) norm, there's no point in settling for other than exactly what YOU want! Go for it!!
Thanks, I agree - not much point in half measures if doing a full custom!
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The one from 2004? Err....
Nope. I have neither time nor funds for it.
Also, the basses I have now are not too shabby.
A couple of years ago you asked if anyone knew of a builder who would build a one-off body you designed. I remember giving you a link to a guy who does that.
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Same project! I revive it every couple of years ... and then shelve it again without making progress :-\
At this rate I may get something built in 2035 or so.
Or maybe I'll be on my deathbed at age 100 in 2070 and my great-grandchildren will hear me mumble my last words:
"Wait wait, I've finally got it. I can see the light! One mudbucker at the neck... one thunderbird pickup in the middle ... one thundertron at the bridge ... if I can just figure out.... how to blend themmmmm..... and no tonnnnnne controlllluurrrrrghhle...."
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Strewth... someone worse than me... :D
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:mrgreen:
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Mudbucker (or substitute) butted up against the end of the neck is the best defense against slapping and popping. 8)
"Oh? Never bothered me."
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Doug_Rauch_in_the_1970%27s.jpg)
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Almost done. If all goes right, I hope to have it in hand next week. I'm VERY pleased so far:
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/18401880_1483705578315503_546425512463915717_o_zpsvpbbxxl7.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/18422440_1483705588315502_1920703942521598230_o_zpsfksbpwno.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/18401854_1483705788315482_7000854367086056700_o_zpsldszzcna.jpg)
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Sexy curves!
That looks impressive
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Thanks! It is breaking from tradition, I know... 8)
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Very sharp!
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Done!
(http://padalka-guitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IMG_6964_300.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/IMG_6967%201_zpsa6qcuszm.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/IMG_7007_zpsuj3jiulr.jpg)
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Congrats! Looks amazing
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Thanks!
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Wow, it really does look fanstastic!
Not a body shape I'd pick, but the visual impact is super!!
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Thanks :) Surprisingly comfortable and the weight was a really pleasant surprise at 3.5 kg/7.7 lbs. Will gig it for the first time at a festival next weekend.
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That turned out great.
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That looks fantastic!!!
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While not a Thunderbird that looks great! I love the extended scale on the upper register and the dead simale one pickup one volume layout.
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While not a Thunderbird that looks great! I love the extended scale on the upper register and the dead simale one pickup one volume layout.
Thanks, Scott! I played it on a festival yesterday (backline SVT with 8x10) and it totally kicked. Sounded very bird-like -- I think both the pickup as well as the set-neck/multi-lam neck construction. Totally pleased with how it came out - the gig always being the acid test. Also the intonation of even the uppermost frets is pretty much dead on.
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Not my cup of tea but form and function dear chap, form and function... looks spot on to the original plans though... I looked back but have I missed what you've had her made from...?
For me, I'd have lost the upper "webbed finger"... Scott, break out the bandsaw...! :vader: ;)
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I looked back but have I missed what you've had her made from...?
Simple woods - the body is a single piece of ash. Neck is maple. Fingerboard is ebony (Sabah).
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Not my cup of tea but form and function dear chap, form and function... looks spot on to the original plans though... I looked back but have I missed what you've had her made from...?
For me, I'd have lost the upper "webbed finger"... Scott, break out the bandsaw...! :vader: ;)
IMHO that "webbed" feature makes the bass look graceful compared to every other bass I've seen with an extended upper horn.
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IMHO that "webbed" feature makes the bass look graceful compared to every other bass I've seen with an extended upper horn.
It's the only 'single-cut' design I've liked. Most just look wonky (to be polite) or whale-like.
Again, after actually playing it, I see no down-side. It doesn't get in the way at all for me. I also really like how light it is without sounding light at all.
Here's a pic in use:
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80/dpdp/Padalka/18839878_1422030601223150_6266746617965188998_o_zpsgisrecmk.jpg)
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Wow, I didn't realize it was so compact. Nice!
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Me, too! Much more-so than I expected. It weighs next to nothing but feels and sounds REALLY solid.
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wow that is just gorgeous
you have inspired me
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Thanks!